Page 15 | A question to all those who think school refusal in schools is increasing due to lazy, enabling parents...

Edsspecialsauce · 2024-01-29T19:14:05+00:00

The question I always have is why? Why would we choose this? I hear all the time that it's all our fault, it's just parents letting them get away with murder. Enabling their behaviour etc How come you get families where one sibling is fine in school and the other has to be dragged in screaming? Why would I choose to spend my whole time in the playground begging? Why would I choose to be on a final warning at work due to absence? Why would I choose to be on antidepressants due being completely burnt out after five years of struggling? I'm a single parent and my DC is disabled. I could probably get benefits and home ed, so why if I'm not bothered about her education am I dragging her through the school gates, crying (I'm often crying too) Every day, five days a week, for years.

SummerDays2020 · 09/02/2024 06:53

Wallawallawallaby · 29/01/2024 23:31

There has always been ‘school refusal’- my brother is in his mid 50’s and refused to go to school once he was too big for my (5ft nothing) mum to drag him there.

When he did go he always missed morning lessons because he had to touch certain bricks in certain walls in the correct order, and dribble stones to certain places and if anything interrupted any of this he had to repeat the journey (although I expect OCD ‘didn’t exist back then’ either).

Your poor brother x

2024name · 09/02/2024 07:43

Both my sons became unable to attend school in Y9 and Y10 respectively. I think they had masked or at least kept their heads down throughout 'lower' school, but once the pressure increased, and peer relationships became more complex, they could not cope. My eldest had 1:1 support throughout his school career, but even that did not stop him from running from school, self harming in class and nearly being hit by traffic on a main road close to the school.

Home education was totally unsuccessful. My youngest had a home tutor provided by the authorities, but he hid from them, or sabotaged the session in any way he could. My eldest ended up in a CAMHS unit. Indeed, the boys' behaviour and needs at home were such that I had to take time off work (eventually resigning) to simply keep them safe.

Over the years, and having been in contact with other parents whose children became unable to attend school, I think there may be some 'parent blaming' from schools and some 'school blaming' from parents, but the inescapable fact is that there are some children in mainstream school whose needs cannot be met in a mainstream environment, and this may manifest itself through the child becoming unable to attend school.

My eldest was a complete mess, and perhaps should never have gone to a mainstream school, but my youngest told me frequently, that he really wanted to go to school, and his anxiety escalated partly because he could not conform, he could not do what his parents, school and society expected of him. 'School refusal' is often just one part of a very complex set of issues.

SummerDays2020 · 09/02/2024 12:02

MrsWimpy · 30/01/2024 08:26

I think it has a lot to do with gaming. Kids are addicted and can't bear the thought of being away from it.

What?! Most kids are not addicted to gaming. Mine play games but like most of their peers do all sorts of other things.

If my DD is unable to get into school (not very often for us currently) she usually sleeps, cuddles me and I sometimes read to her. She is exhausted. Certainly does not have the energy for gaming!

Beetlebumz · 10/02/2024 07:41

solsticelove · 30/01/2024 16:21

I could write a book in answer to this question. (Maybe I should).

Hence this is difficult to condense into a short thread post…

However, some of my opinion and a bit of history.

In 2014 Gove in his infinite wisdom turned the National Curriculum upside down. His aim was to return education to its Victorian roots based on the 3 R/s. I’m guessing to recreate his 1960s Eton school days 🤔 So overnight went what little creativity was left in schools (not saying things were perfect before this mind but they were infinitely better) and in came lots of totally outdated grammar structures (fronted adverbials for 7 year olds, the subjunctive tense for 10 year olds and so on), in came learning objectives that were originally in Year 6 moved down to Year 4 and those form Year 4 moved down to Year 2 and so on. At the same time the SATs were altered to reflect this and suddenly the pressure was on. In my experience as a teacher all this achieved was the commencement of putting most children off learning/school and a curriculum which was dry, boring and outdated. Schools were under (& continue to be) so much pressure to get these children to a certain level. And so schools have become all about teaching to the test. There is SO much focus on Maths and English purely because of the SATs that other subjects are now demoted to occasional add-ons. Children who are not academic are miserable. I absolutely hated having to jump though these hoops to teach the most pointless shit to them. And yet schools continue to pile on the pressure (they are so beholden to ofsted they have not much choice) & it’s miserable for all concerned. Tough luck if you didn’t understand modal verbs we’re onto the subjunctive tense today. Tough luck if you don’t under how to calculate the area of a parallelogram, we’re onto algebra today. They have become exam factories and the students are just a statistic on a graph to be measured for the schools results table.

Obviously tests have been a part of school for a long time, but unless you have seen the things children are expected to know today you have no idea how harmful this situation is. I’ve seen 5 year olds who think they’re stupid because they’re being expected to learn spellings such as ‘muscle, hustle, bustle, castle, thistle’ yet are at the level of just about being able to spell CVC words (cat, mug, pan etc). The curriculum is over full and ridiculous. It probably meets the needs of about 10-20% of children at best.

Combine this with lack of funding all round, lack of support for send, lack of places for send children, lack of nhs funding which impacts on everyone, poverty, crumbling buildings, toilets locked, draconian uniform and attendance requirements, ofsted pressures, overcrowding, teachers that are burnt out and yes I will add the pandemic to this. This has all been discussed before but on some level it changed things. As has been said on here ‘the contract was terminated’ for many.

I have more philosophical views on what is wrong with school in its modern iteration but they’re often too radical for MN. I’m a true unschooler these days. I’ve done a full 360 from being the good student, the hard working teacher, the mother who dutifully sent her children off to school age 4 to someone who has no time for any of that. It was toxic for me and was toxic for my children. It was also toxic for the students I taught and I couldn’t be part of it any longer. It saddens me as I do fundamentally think school could be a good place. I’m a big believer in education and learning. It just all needs an overhaul for the 21st century and modern society.

Show quote history

This really is a fantastic quote and deserves highlighting..and I do think you could write a book..I work in education and agree wholeheartedly. The conservatives have a lot to answer for.

TheMarlows · 10/02/2024 07:59

Our eldest DD was the same last year in year 11. She had always been anxious about her school but it reached awful proportions in year 11 with lots of major meltdowns and so we decided from February half term that the only way to get her to her exams in one piece was to send her part time. We had asked the school for help on and off for years but because she is no trouble and gets on with her work, we had been more or less ignored. Once we started reducing her hours and it impacted their attendance figures, they started paying attention. Luckily she is a high achiever and they supported our decisions. So not lazy parenting - just knowing and supporting our daughter. She is in a different sixth form now and very happy.
Our other two children are fine.

TaxiVan · 10/02/2024 08:23

I home educated my two adult sons because of school refusal - school were zero help, the EWO (who I approached to try to be proactive in solving the issue) was dreadful, had no interest in DS’s ASD diagnosis or that school was giving zero support. We got to the point where we couldn’t go in DS’s room as he’d attack us, eventually we felt we had no option but to take him out, which worked well for him.

My third ds also school refuses, but his school have been incredibly supportive and flexible. He’s now being HEd, but the decision felt like mine and his, rather than being forced by an unsupportive school. I could carry on getting him in as and when, but at what cost to his mental health? It’s just not worth it.

School has become a dreadful place for many children, not just those who are so anxious that they literally can’t go in. There’s no surprise that we’re in the middle of a mental health crisis for children. I’d 100% support teachers striking to change things for the children in their care. Unfortunately in too many schools there are teachers/SLTs who blame the children and parents for the child’s lack of resilience, without grasping that it’s the education system that is putting children in intolerable situations.

Interesting that someone mentioned John Gatto Taylor upthread - I fully agree, and I think a lot of issues we see now are because public services are largely run and populated by people who suit being a cog in the wheel, who follow guidelines whatever, and are unable to question how their own (albeit directed) actions are contributing to the growing problems children face in schools (or for that matter any other issues in the public sector).

TaxiVan · 10/02/2024 08:24

I’m in several home ed groups, and in each of those the largest growing numbers through the last few years are teachers - so many teachers who will not accept school for their own children - which says it all really!

solsticelove · 10/02/2024 16:57

TaxiVan · 10/02/2024 08:24

I’m in several home ed groups, and in each of those the largest growing numbers through the last few years are teachers - so many teachers who will not accept school for their own children - which says it all really!

I’m a teacher and I took my dc out of school a few years ago as I couldn’t be part of it anymore but also I couldn’t send my own children to school in its current state. Like you say, I wanted better for them for their childhood.
And yes it’s startling how many teachers home educate!

Bromley4ever · 09/04/2024 19:53

I am glad to find this thread. I have a sister who is saying my parenting enabled my child to refuse school. We literally spent a year taking him up to the school and trying to get him in. She is saying that he knew he could get away with it. He wanted to go in! It is breaking me.

HeBeaverandSheBeaver · 09/04/2024 23:01

Your sister has no idea how it feels for you and how hard
You have tried. Rise above her ignorance and pay her no mind. No one knows how this feels apart from those of us that go through it

BrambleyHedge · 14/04/2024 23:24

I am learning to ignore people who judge my parenting a bit more than I used to but it is hard. Good luck for those starting term again tomorrow.

lollipoprainbow · 13/05/2024 15:15

The amazing specialist school that I found for my daughter said they can’t meet her needs. I’m absolutely devestated.

wellington77 · 13/05/2024 15:33

My answer would be that all families and children are different, there will be some genuinely lazy kids out there but at the same time children who genuinely find school hard for medical reasons for example. One size does not fit all

Bumblebee2324 · 13/05/2024 20:19

I have not read the whole thread so sorry if I’m missed any important bits. This is not black and white ffs. There is a whole huge bloody grey area. I have 4 children. One with ADHD, ASD and ODD. Since secondary school every day has been a fight. He has an EHCP which I fought my ass off for. Literally took years to get it and the support he needed. The gaps are so huge in his learning because of failures on ALL of his schools part but he’s at the point where he feels like he stopped learning anything a very long time ago. He doesn’t see the point. He has gone from school to school, none of them a good fit. Now he is at a private school 90 minutes away and everyday is yet again a fight. I don’t blame him. He only gets 90 minutes of tutoring Monday to Friday with a three hour round trip to boot. I don’t blame him. It’s shit. The school refusal is exhausting, frustrating and heartbreaking at the same time.

DS 2 is dyslexic. He lost his favourite person in the world last year, his Aunty, my sister. It was suicide and traumatic beyond all comprehension. Especially for a 13 year old. Since she passed he has major depression. Again, major gaps in his learning due to failures on the schools part. He also doesn’t see the point. Did you know schools aren’t obligated to offer support in years 10 and 11 without an EHCP in place? He understands nothing and again, every day is a fight. He is a traumatised child with zero support. Late every day and is just a sad, traumatised child. I made the school aware of his dyslexia in year 7. He is now in year 10. I received a call last week to tell me the “unfortunate” news that they’ve done an assessment and he is severely dyslexic. No record of all the paperwork and assessments that I provided for them in 2020. Luckily my correspondence is still on my email account. He’s not a big talker, he told me he was getting support, I very stupidly assumed it was for his dyslexia. It wasn’t. A referral to CAMHS was signed off in September last year. I asked his GP to check on it for us in January this year. Surprise surprise, no record of the referral. GP did an urgent referral on the spot and he was seen within 5 weeks. The EP from the LA called me two weeks ago to ask why I wasn’t at the meeting at the school. Surprise surprise I was kept in the dark and wasn’t invited to the meeting. Apparently she ripped them to pieces and they knew it was coming. The EP
was a wonderfully smart lady and knew exactly why I hadn’t been told about the meeting. My son’s school refusal is a problem, but not something I am responsible for. I have gone above and beyond to get him in every day even if he’s late every single day.

DD is in year 7. Also dyslexic but loves school. She sets her own alarm, dresses herself, has her clothes ready for the next morning and hasn’t been late once since she started in September.

DD(3) is a covid baby and has huge attachment issues. She goes in the vast majority of days but I’m not too worried about her attendance at this point. She’s still so young.

My point? All of my children have been raised exactly the same way. In a loving stable home with two parents who have bent over backwards to encourage them to succeed. We are not lazy or enabling this behaviour. Quite the opposite. We’ve fought harder than most parents for their rights and for support. We know this because we’ve been told so, by many different professionals.

I wouldn’t wish our situation on anyone. Four children at four different schools. 3 with SEN. I’m so so done with the ignorant judgment from people. I dare anyone to attempt to walk in our shoes for just a day. I know for a fact many of you would be extremely humbled. Just my penny’s worth.

Morph22010 · 13/05/2024 20:30

Mrsttcno1 · 29/01/2024 20:21

The only thing I would sort of disagree with here is the argument that it can’t be all parenting that has changed, I think actually that’s incorrect, parenting now (in most cases) looks a lot different to how it was when I was a child.

Children have a much bigger voice now than they did when I was little (and I’m only in my 20’s so I’m not talking 30+ years ago). There was no such thing as school refusal when I was in school because really kids didn’t have any say, there was no negotiation to be done, it was x happens then y, even sickness absence wasn’t really a thing when I was in school, you got sent into school and if you were really poorly then you would get sent home. Parenting was more about dictating to kids really than engaging with them in most cases whereas nowadays there is a rise of gentle parenting, teaching our children from a very young age that it’s okay to have their own boundaries (e.g. if you don’t want to kiss your nanna if you don’t want to, whereas when we were kids you were just about passed round the entire family for a kiss and cuddle, nobody asked if you wanted one), encouraging our children to speak openly and honestly about their emotions, to stand up for themselves and what they think or believe in.

Now in my opinion, those are all really positive things and absolutely a step in the right direction, the consequence though is that kids now do have a say in things like school. Because they are taught that their voice and their feelings matter, that they can and should speak their mind always, and shouldn’t do things that they don’t want to do etc, it’s no surprise then when that extends to things like school. Kids feel more able now to say “I’m not doing that because I don’t want to” because that is what we encourage in them, it’s not a bad thing, but it is a contributing factor to things like school refusal sometimes because 10 years ago it was mum tells child what to do, child does it, now the communication goes both ways which has lots of really positive consequences but does also contribute to some issues like this

Edited

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I’m in my 50s and had a school refuser in my class in the 80s, I think she stopped coming completely after about a year and a bit in secondary, attendance was sporadic before then. Most of the people I went to school with can’t even remember her now.

Crystallizedring · 13/05/2024 20:50

But why give a child the option? Tell them they have to go to school. End of.
My DD was horrendous
Screaming, kicking, hitting, running out of the school building but I still made her go in . Every morning I left school in tears. Every evening I had to endure a meltdown about going to school the next day. It was exhausting and hard. She now still dislikes school but just gets on with it. She is autistic too so life is hard for her. Unfortunately we all have to do things we don't like!
It's a slippery slope once you let them stay home because its easier.

purpleme12 · 13/05/2024 20:51

Did she go in by herself then? Or did you have to drag her in?

Wallawallawallaby · 13/05/2024 20:51

Crystallizedring · 13/05/2024 20:50

But why give a child the option? Tell them they have to go to school. End of.
My DD was horrendous
Screaming, kicking, hitting, running out of the school building but I still made her go in . Every morning I left school in tears. Every evening I had to endure a meltdown about going to school the next day. It was exhausting and hard. She now still dislikes school but just gets on with it. She is autistic too so life is hard for her. Unfortunately we all have to do things we don't like!
It's a slippery slope once you let them stay home because its easier.

Try reading the tread and educating yourself.

imnotwhoyouthinkiam · 13/05/2024 21:07

Crystallizedring · 13/05/2024 20:50

But why give a child the option? Tell them they have to go to school. End of.
My DD was horrendous
Screaming, kicking, hitting, running out of the school building but I still made her go in . Every morning I left school in tears. Every evening I had to endure a meltdown about going to school the next day. It was exhausting and hard. She now still dislikes school but just gets on with it. She is autistic too so life is hard for her. Unfortunately we all have to do things we don't like!
It's a slippery slope once you let them stay home because its easier.

How old was she at the time? How big was she? How far was school? How did you get her there?

Notts90 · 13/05/2024 22:12

Crystallizedring · 13/05/2024 20:50

But why give a child the option? Tell them they have to go to school. End of.
My DD was horrendous
Screaming, kicking, hitting, running out of the school building but I still made her go in . Every morning I left school in tears. Every evening I had to endure a meltdown about going to school the next day. It was exhausting and hard. She now still dislikes school but just gets on with it. She is autistic too so life is hard for her. Unfortunately we all have to do things we don't like!
It's a slippery slope once you let them stay home because its easier.

That is awful. Your poor daughter. She was clearly in a huge amount of distress. Our school would never take a child that upset, it’s not worth the risk of traumatising them.

Morph22010 · 14/05/2024 04:33

Crystallizedring · 13/05/2024 20:50

But why give a child the option? Tell them they have to go to school. End of.
My DD was horrendous
Screaming, kicking, hitting, running out of the school building but I still made her go in . Every morning I left school in tears. Every evening I had to endure a meltdown about going to school the next day. It was exhausting and hard. She now still dislikes school but just gets on with it. She is autistic too so life is hard for her. Unfortunately we all have to do things we don't like!
It's a slippery slope once you let them stay home because its easier.

It’s quite common in reception and possibly start of year one for children to have seperation anxiety and once they get used to school it gets better. Were you still having your child screaming, hitting and kicking to get them in and having huge meltdowns at home when they got further up the school into years 5 and 6 and into secondary? If not then you’ve not really had the same issue.

I do agree though it is a slippery slope once they are out of school but often it’s the parents last resort and they have no other choice. “Luckily” my autistic child was the kicking off while actually in school type when he couldn’t cope rather than the type that internalises so we got an ehcp and eventually specialist without having to come out of school completely, the tribunal system was also quicker at that time with a refusal to assess taking 12 weeks instead of a year like now. It still took us several years to get sorted though so I feel for people nowadays in a similar position and the time it takes to get support so child ends up out of school. Once they are out of the routine of going to school it is really difficult to get them back (seen so many autistic kids who end up never going back once out) but this doesn’t mean parents should plough on and keep forcing their children in year after year and traumatising them, it’s the fault of the system that takes too long to get adequate support in place.

Bumblebee2324 · 14/05/2024 07:36

@Crystallizedring considering you are clearly far superior to the rest of us and know exactly how to deal with this.. please tell me how to force two boys, 15 and nearly 17, who are bigger and stronger than me to go to school? Begging and crying doesn’t help. I can’t physically force them. I ground them but they walk out of the house anyway and do whatever the hell they want. I take away their things, including their phones, their allowance, which just bites me in the ass because I then can’t call them or track them. Please share your pearls of wisdom oh wise one.

HumourM3 · 14/05/2024 08:17

Crystallizedring · 13/05/2024 20:50

But why give a child the option? Tell them they have to go to school. End of.
My DD was horrendous
Screaming, kicking, hitting, running out of the school building but I still made her go in . Every morning I left school in tears. Every evening I had to endure a meltdown about going to school the next day. It was exhausting and hard. She now still dislikes school but just gets on with it. She is autistic too so life is hard for her. Unfortunately we all have to do things we don't like!
It's a slippery slope once you let them stay home because its easier.

Wow your ignorance re autism is huge. If you’ve met one person with autism you’ve met one person. I’d be very wary. I did similar with my autistic dd and regret it hugely, it contributed to a massive crisis and mental illness at 14 she is still recovering from.

Also when you know how to drag towering 15 year old boys in who are already handling trauma could you get back to us.🤔

Kta7 · 14/05/2024 09:17

Crystallizedring · 13/05/2024 20:50

But why give a child the option? Tell them they have to go to school. End of.
My DD was horrendous
Screaming, kicking, hitting, running out of the school building but I still made her go in . Every morning I left school in tears. Every evening I had to endure a meltdown about going to school the next day. It was exhausting and hard. She now still dislikes school but just gets on with it. She is autistic too so life is hard for her. Unfortunately we all have to do things we don't like!
It's a slippery slope once you let them stay home because its easier.

‘I had to endure a meltdown’ - poor you…

DD2 was like this in years 2 and 3 then had a good year 4 and amazing year 5. However, I was always mindful that things can fall apart for autistic girls at secondary school and lo and behold, they have. I wouldn’t be forcing her even if I could because that would lead to masking, burnout and potentially horrendous mental health consequences. I don’t know how old your DD is but if you haven’t been through secondary yet just be aware that even perfect parenting is not always enough to get them in.

lifeturnsonadime · 14/05/2024 09:49

Crystallizedring · 13/05/2024 20:50

But why give a child the option? Tell them they have to go to school. End of.
My DD was horrendous
Screaming, kicking, hitting, running out of the school building but I still made her go in . Every morning I left school in tears. Every evening I had to endure a meltdown about going to school the next day. It was exhausting and hard. She now still dislikes school but just gets on with it. She is autistic too so life is hard for her. Unfortunately we all have to do things we don't like!
It's a slippery slope once you let them stay home because its easier.

You hero.

By the way no child has to go to school 'end of'.

My child missed 7 years and has a place to study his chosen subject at UCL if he makes the grades.

He wasn't coping in school at the time so I removed him because as a parent it's my duty to keep him safe.