The EBSA support thread (emotionally based school avoidance/absence)

[BrambleyHedge]

Following this thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4996315-a-question-to-all-those-who-think-school-refusal-in-schools-is-increasing-due-to-lazy-enabling-parents?latest=1

I wondered if some people would welcome an EBSA support thread. I haven't seen another one so if there is already one I can delete this one. For those dealing with EBSA - I don't know about you but sometimes I just want to cry and scream with all the stress and I thought it might be healthier to write it down and share with others going through similar issues.

My son is 15 yr 11 and is currently upstairs refusing to go to his mock GCSE this morning. He is too anxious. He is only doing 5 GCSEs and has small group tutoring in his school rather than the normal classes. There are several in his year with EBSA so they have their own group. He is finally being assessed for ASD after 2.5 years in CAMHs list and also finally being assessed for EHCP after mediation due to council refusal to assess. He is what they used to call high functioning but unable to deal with education. I am practically in tears this morning trying to get him to go in. He usually doesn't go in until about 11 so this is early. He doesn't sleep.

So enough about me. If you too are having a crappy morning then please talk.

It would be good if this thread can be for those who are dealing with EBSA. Well meant advice or judgement from others may not always be welcome or helpful. I have tried literally everything over the last two years to get my son to school and am learning much of this is beyond my control. Sometimes there just isn't an answer.

I have put this in Chat for now so it gets seen. It could fit in education, SEN, or some other subjects.

[Queenelsarules]

Hi, I'll join in. We've had an horrendous time over the last few years with non attendance and challenging behaviour at home. Both my children dd12 and ds9 are Autistic, dd also dyslexic, ds also ADHD. We are finally seeing some progress, both now in specialist provision after so many battles.

Dd is thriving on the whole, although her setting does not meet her academic needs, there was nowhere appropriate that could. We decided to prioritise mental health.

Ds still only attending half days after a year in his resource provision. I had to give up work about 5 years ago, and lately I feel like I might be losing myself completely.

[RainbowZebraWarrior]

Thanks for the thread Brambly. I followed (and commented) on that thread.

I have a severely anxious 12 year old DD. She has Autism and ADHD as well as other health issues. We've had a rough couple of years, which largely started when she began Middle School.

I don't think schools get it, or are equipped/ have the time and energy to devote to these issues. They also don't really see her at her worst. We had an early help plan in place (still do) and I've found it to be rather intrusive as I knew it would be. Some subtle and not so subtle questioning as to whether other issues were at play. No. It's school.

The best person we have on board with us at the moment is our SALT. She gets my DD and advocates strongly for how the school should NOT be dealing with my DDs situational mutism.

Anyway, at the moment, she is going in. This is after a six month fight to get them to change classes. It's had quite a positive impact, but I know things can just fall apart in an instant if not managed well. I also worry that she simply isn't going to be able to cope with High-school next year.

I had to 'threaten' to pull her out and home school her for them to eventually let her change classes. I do believe it will end up happening anyway.

So I am parking myself up here, as its an ongoing journey.

[Imfedup1989]

I could of written the same about my yr11 dd, she has been in EBSA room in a mainstream for 3 years.
She does part time (3 hours a day) we are awaiting the outcome to see if she will get an EHCP after the LA backing down after refusal to assess.
She is at home crying and crying today and refusingto go in, this has been going on since Yr 7 really.
She started in the grammar stream class and now will fail all her GCSEs.
The school did put in for an ASD assessment but was refused them saying it was SEMH!
The EP report was amazing for the EHCP and says she quite clearly has Autism (I have other children with ASD as well).
I have done everything, walked her to school everyday, meetings,CAMHs (which took 2 years and was usless).

[Onehappymam]

DD15 is attending school. She’s on a reduced timetable though, which seems to get smaller and smaller.

We pick her up at lunchtime, as she doesn’t have anyone to go for lunch with. She won’t want to go back in the afternoon, as there’s yet another subject she now hates.

She would be happy to go to school if she had friends, but as she has ASD, her peers either pity her, give her a wide birth or make her life an absolute misery. Sadly, at the moment it’s the latter.

Her final exams are in May. If we make it to then and she passes a handful of subjects I will be delighted! But we too are prioritising her mental health, so we take one day and a time.

Her behaviour is challenging, mostly at home, but sometimes at school.

[Quartz2208]

Just waiting to get my year 6 to go in and if I get a call from the school asking where he is.
was off half a term end 2022 went back reduced timetable and lasted until the final 2 weeks of summer term. Had most of last term off and been going back slowly this term although now they want him back full time

the headteacher said to me you do know he is fine when he is in school.

No I know he spends a lot of mental energy presenting as fine as he doesn’t want to get in trouble or be perceived as different

[Quartz2208]

Does anyone else weirdly find the good days hard, the hope that you are getting somewhere but knowing that a backward step is likely soon.

do yours go out much trying slowly with that but miss all the things we used to do

[Flatpackedboxes]

I've been there, 12 months ago I couldn't get my autistic year 9 daughter into school and I also ended up withdrawing my highly anxious year 7 DD. I started them at a much smaller girls only school in September. It hasn't been easy and there's been teething problems but the change is immense. Youngest still doesn't like school but goes in every day without too much moaning. We've had a few periods where the eldest wouldn't go in but the school were great and worked with us to tweak certain things. Thinking of you all. The stress is immense.

[RainbowZebraWarrior]

"She would be happy to go to school if she had friends, but as she has ASD, her peers either pity her, give her a wide birth or make her life an absolute misery. Sadly, at the moment it’s the latter."

Oh god, yes. It's so unbelievably shit seeing how awful they feel about themselves and lack of friendships. My DD was very shy in early years, but most kids liked her. When her anxiety and panic set in, you could start to see the kids and parents giving us a wide berth as if it was catching! We haven't had any invites to parties since that started either. It's not a coincidence is it? That was around 6 years ago.

DD cried daily and self harmed last summer just repeating over and over that she just wanted a friend. She wanted someone to love her like she sees other kids with close friendships on TV shows. It was heartbreaking. I've tried so hard to foster relationships and engineer things on her behalf that I had to take a step back as I felt that trying and failing on her behalf probably made us both feel worse.

I worry that it makes her vulnerable. I worry that it makes her insular. I remember mentioning this to CAMHS and they said "so be it, if she can't socialise and she is happy at home, that's fine" Oh, fucking great.

She had a couple of friendships with some of the nice lads in her class. I took them out for bubble tea and had them round to ours for pizza, but they've pulled back as they saw her anxiety and awkwardness in class, and again I think they don't want to be part of it. She can also be a little but full on, too and I don't think they like this. I've explained to her about not hassling people, but again this makes me feel like shit as I feel I'm not helping with the fact she already feels like people avoid her.

She had a brief stint in a friendship group that turned out to be toxic, so she removed herself and actually dealt with it really well. Those kids were still in her class, though; snuggering at her 'babyish' water bottle (she likes Anime, its age appropriate, but of coirse the other kids are all into stuff that is way above age appropriate). The low level but constant bullying is why I've eventually had her moved.

She has one friend who has ADHD, so at least they have an understanding. She doesn't know what to do with herself when she if off, though. There are a couple of other kids with ND that seem to be gravitating tentatively towards her, so that seems like it's going to be a possibility. I'm so unbelievably grateful for this. It begs the question though that NT kids will and do distance themselves from ND kids, therefore ND kids world is insular and small. I've seen the way that most adults have been the same with me (I'm also Autistic) so it pisses me off when folk who know fuck all about it, put it down to us being over protective as parents / helicopter parenting / not instilling resilience.

When I say folk, I mean posters on MN, other parents IRL, and let's face it, some teachers.

[Squirrelsnut]

I'd welcome it. I think DS is on the brink of dropping out of Y12, he rarely attends due to anxiety.

[RainbowZebraWarrior]

@Quartz2208

Does anyone else weirdly find the good days hard, the hope that you are getting somewhere but knowing that a backward step is likely soon.

do yours go out much trying slowly with that but miss all the things we used to do

Yes. A year or so ago, I'd confide in my Mum. I'd tell her that yes it was great that DD had had a good day. I'd also say that I needed to be realistic and that it would all go to shit again. My Mum kept telling me not to be negative. My Mum has now seen how shit its all been and how ill my DD has been as a result, and she now totally understands. It's my one saving grace, as I simply couldn't face any more of my mothers "Come on now let's be positive, lets be happy for once!" happy clapping.

We live in the reality because we have to.

I used to wake up every day with hope in my heart and I'd be crushed if (when) things kicked off. Now, I wake up and mentally prepare for whatever is thrown at me. It means I can cope better. It's not having low expectations, it's having realistic expectations.

Doesn't mean I'm a miserable, negative old goat. It's all about priming and preparing one's self.

[NeedAnUpgrade]

Thanks for starting this @BrambleyHedge.
Our DD is currently sulking in her room, she doesn’t go in on a Thursday but the school sends work home. She got something wrong on a maths sheet and lost her shit about it. We’ve got an assessment for ASD in a few weeks so just feel like we’re in limbo waiting for that.

I think kids with ASD need a different way of teaching. My DD seems to get really stressed with anything that needs multiple steps. I just think schools have so much to include and classes that are too big and so can only teach subjects one way. If that doesn’t fit your way of learning then it’s going to be awful. Add in the social issues that these children face and no wonder they hate going to school.

Anyway, I’ve given her some time to calm down so going in with snacks and a hug if she wants one.

[RainbowZebraWarrior]

@Quartz2208 I meant to reply to your bit about going out. No, not much at all. I miss all the stuff we used to do when she was younger. In a fit of positivity, I booked three things for over Christmas. She didn't manage any of them.

We sometimes manage to go to the cinema. We sometimes go into town (about once a month) to look at the Geek shops. It kind of has to be at her pace, though. She's never had a night away from me in 6 years and doesn't go out alone. Something her OT is starting to work on with her is independence. We will see.

My GP gave me a leaflet for an organisation in my region called US. They help 12 to 24 year olds with Anxiety and other mental health conditions through sport and exercise. We've just been accepted and she will be funded for some specialist personal training sessions. I'm cautiously hopeful about this.

[Lindy2]

DD15. Diagnosed ADHD but, without a doubt also ASD/PDA (on the long waiting list for formal diagnosis).

She masked like a trooper until year 10. I thought she was doing ok, although the lockdowns in year 7 and 8 helped her hide how much she was actually struggling.

Year 10 started with more GCSE pressure, a change of Head, fall outs with friends, a health scare (a cyst) and BOOM. The world as we knew it imploded and she went deep into autistic burnout. It's been horrendous. She's been so mentally unwell.

Year 11 now. Approximately 30% attendance and even that is a massive struggle to achieve. No chance of passing any GCSEs but sitting some would be an achievement.

I'm honestly counting the hours until school is over forever. We will then focus on rebuilding our child.

Hopefully college will be better. She has an EHCP now - it's just been finalised. If college doesn't work out we look for a specialist placement. I so miss the happy, laughing child she used to be.

[BrambleyHedge]

All your stories are so familiar. Those of you talking about prioritising mental health are so right and sometimes I have to kick myself to focus on that. You recognise the start of the smallest triggers which set off a spiral of hopelessness in them. There is the waiting for it all to go wrong on a 'good day'. Morning is the worst time of day for me - what will he be like today? Should I just stay in bed too (I don't but I want to)?

I will try to reply individually after work as I got distracted after my first post. I actually got his autism diagnosis through from CAMHs just after my first post! But he is still upstairs refusing to budge.

[lavenderlou]

Me, DD Y9. Been struggling with school since Y7 but really bad the last year or so. Attendance at 75% but when she does go in she spends half the day in the pastoral room so misses loads of lessons. She has situational mutism and bad anxiety. On the ASD assessment pathway.

School have made adjustments like sitting with a friend and not being called on to answer questions but she's still very anxious. The worst thing for her is strict teachers (which unfortunately is most of them). SENCo said she needed to start attending more lessons but hasn't put anything into place. I feel that because my DD is so quiet she is just invisible to everyone. She is generally academic and I had quite high aspirations for her but now I just hope she can get some GCSEs and hope something like a college will be a better environment for her. Unfortunately we live in an area where there are very few alternative schools. I don't think she would cope with a new environment anyway.

Younger DD at primary school also anxious and starting to express reluctance about school. I'm dreading having two of them when she moves to secondary.

[ArseInTheCoOpWindow]

I just want to give you all hope.

My Dd refused school in April of last year. Hasn’t been in since. It was horrific. Self harmed when pushed to go in.

She’s now got an EHCP after months of fighting, and is waiting admittance to a local ND 6th form.

She’s also coming out of the burnout she’s been in for 2 years. Still tired but her old personality is coming back.

They will get there

[lifeturnsonadime]

Just coming over to join, thanks for the thread @BrambleyHedge

I am the parent of two 'school refusers', my first experience of refusal dates back to 2016, when my eldest was 10.

Both are autistic/ dyslexic / SPD/ anxious. Neither were diagnosed when they first started 'refusing'.

After 6 years of being out of school he was able to reengage in main stream 6th form.

My younger child who is 14 is now learning from home on an EOTAS arrangement.

to all of you currently going through it. I wlll try to give support where I can.

[ArseInTheCoOpWindow]

@lavenderlou

Me, DD Y9. Been struggling with school since Y7 but really bad the last year or so. Attendance at 75% but when she does go in she spends half the day in the pastoral room so misses loads of lessons. She has situational mutism and bad anxiety. On the ASD assessment pathway.

School have made adjustments like sitting with a friend and not being called on to answer questions but she's still very anxious. The worst thing for her is strict teachers (which unfortunately is most of them). SENCo said she needed to start attending more lessons but hasn't put anything into place. I feel that because my DD is so quiet she is just invisible to everyone. She is generally academic and I had quite high aspirations for her but now I just hope she can get some GCSEs and hope something like a college will be a better environment for her. Unfortunately we live in an area where there are very few alternative schools. I don't think she would cope with a new environment anyway.

Younger DD at primary school also anxious and starting to express reluctance about school. I'm dreading having two of them when she moves to secondary.

Oh strict teachers and questioning! Been there. School never gets it ever!

[EHCPerhaps]

Thank you for the thread Brambly
DD 11 in y7 all fell apart in MS school very quickly. At home. ECHNA being worked on at the moment.

[BrambleyHedge]

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Oh strict teachers and questioning! Been there. School never gets it ever!

In the early days of refusal my son was off for two weeks, staying in bed all day low mood/depression. His first day back he was sitting on his own at break time and a teacher came over and laid into him for not doing his homework. To be fair, the SENCO said it was unacceptable but it just set him back again. He is at a boy's grammar and it isn't really designed for people like him.

[ArseInTheCoOpWindow]

@BrambleyHedge

In the early days of refusal my son was off for two weeks, staying in bed all day low mood/depression. His first day back he was sitting on his own at break time and a teacher came over and laid into him for not doing his homework. To be fair, the SENCO said it was unacceptable but it just set him back again. He is at a boy's grammar and it isn't really designed for people like him.

Shocking. 😮

[RainbowZebraWarrior]

@lavenderlou your DD sounds exactly like mine.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow @lifeturnsonadime thanks to both of you for the positivity stories. This actually mirrors my own personal experience (in so much as I struggled badly, but sixth form was different as you were treated totally differently)

I remember having my Autism assessment (aged 51) and describing how I hated PE. I then explained how I went on to enjoy running marathons, swimming and other sports in adult life. The psychiatrist was really surprised at this and asked how it was different. I replied that being forced to do things and being ridiculed when you are crap at it, doesn't foster a great learning atmosphere. Choosing to learn a sport or discipline at your own pace later in life is a joy by comparison.

I've always believed that my DD will cope better after the 'main school years'. That's from what she's said herself and how it was for me. Having to endure these years, unfortunately, seems like nothing short of torturous.

[ArseInTheCoOpWindow]

@Lindy2

DD15. Diagnosed ADHD but, without a doubt also ASD/PDA (on the long waiting list for formal diagnosis).

She masked like a trooper until year 10. I thought she was doing ok, although the lockdowns in year 7 and 8 helped her hide how much she was actually struggling.

Year 10 started with more GCSE pressure, a change of Head, fall outs with friends, a health scare (a cyst) and BOOM. The world as we knew it imploded and she went deep into autistic burnout. It's been horrendous. She's been so mentally unwell.

Year 11 now. Approximately 30% attendance and even that is a massive struggle to achieve. No chance of passing any GCSEs but sitting some would be an achievement.

I'm honestly counting the hours until school is over forever. We will then focus on rebuilding our child.

Hopefully college will be better. She has an EHCP now - it's just been finalised. If college doesn't work out we look for a specialist placement. I so miss the happy, laughing child she used to be.

She will come back though.

Mines halfway out of burnout. I can see the happy laughing child she always used to be. Still exhausted and over sensitive. But not hiding in her room all the time anymore.

[lifeturnsonadime]

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

She will come back though.

Mines halfway out of burnout. I can see the happy laughing child she always used to be. Still exhausted and over sensitive. But not hiding in her room all the time anymore.

Just want to echo this, your wonderful children are still your wonderful children even though they are struggling at the moment.

Their former selves will return in time. My son couldn't leave his room for 6 months when he finally stopped going to school, he couldn't engage in any form of formal education for 4 years. Yet now he's in college, with friends, preparing for A - Levels with the aim of leaving home to go to Uni in September. This would have seemed impossible as recently as 2 years ago when he was not attending a formal setting.

Remember that it is not them that are broken, nor you, it is the system they are faced with.



And if you have teens going through this and think there is no time, please don't despair. Mental health comes first and education can happen at any time, despite what schools/ colleges/ the government would have you believe.

[EilonwyWithRedGoldHair]

DS is 10, nearly 11. Everything fell apart really in 2022, DS was struggling more and more socially in school, he was annoying other children, some of them were bullying him back, meltdowns at home just got worse and worse until a boy he was friends with moved away, and he started having multiple meltdowns a day.

Then one day he just refused to go, and that was that. He realised we couldn't force him to go. A lot of work was put in by various people and agencies but his anxiety was so high he couldn't bear to even see or be seen by any of the children in his school.

In the end a place was found for him in a small unit attached to a different school early in 2023. We then started months of supporting him and encouraging him to go in for a couple of hours a day. His attendance is now around 50-60%, he's been diagnosed with ASD, and we have an OT report suggesting we may want to consider assessment for dyspraxia.

Now we're waiting for a new IDP, a CAMHS appointment (fourth attempt, three referrals have been turned down) and to find out what secondary school he'll go to - his anxiety about changing schools is already high. We're hoping he'll get a place at a small unit for children with ASD, I can't see him coping in mainstream where there are a thousand plus children moving around the building regularly, he can't cope with a class of 30. As things are now they'd also have to make major concessions on uniform, and all but one, when I've called to discuss this with them, have been notably evasive on the subject.