To be haunted by this (Israel/Hamas)

[newstart24]

The second picture, of the little girl sitting on her mother’s (I presume) knee. My DD is a similar age and I can’t get it out of my head. I just hope she got out of the situation and is ok. This country has its problems but bloody hell, when you think what other people in the world are going through, we are all so lucky to live here.

Israel shares horrific October 7 footage as it denies genocide charge

https://mol.im/a/13005021

what utter nonsense. Unbelievable that people are posting actual lies like this online and assuming they can get away with it.

I know they are.

also I never mentioned anything about the bbc and quotes. I don’t watch the bbc particularly. If I watch the news its Al Jazeera.

Al Jazeera, that well known impartial
news outlet.......

I would rather watch Al Jazeera than the shitey British news. I watch stv as it’s local and channel 4 is okay. But surely the vast majority of news are technically biased. You pick your news channel and go with it.

Are you saying babies were actually beheaded, as that has been proven to be false.

and it has also been proven that many people who were killed were IDF and most of it was actually by the IDF, who were indiscriminately attacking on the hope to kill hamas terrorists but actually killed a lot of civilian Israelis and their own soldiers.

People talk all sorts of stuff whenever they fancy without evidence…

where is the proof that “many people” (how many please?) were killed by the IDF?

For me, murdered babies are murdered babies be it with or without their heads being cut off. This counts for wherever they were murdered and by whom they were murdered. People don’t need to add to the story without proof to make it even more horrific. These are actual people with actual lives and families.

It’s not meaningless, it is the only way to prevent the further killing of innocent civilians, 70% of which are women and children. And the only way to adhere to the recommendations set out by the ICJ yesterday.

The children of Gaza are not responsible for the actions of their government. The Israeli government are responsible for their actions and need to stop bombing and starving a captive civilian population.

@Pottedfern genuinepy interested why returning the hostages and demilitarising Hamas is not part of your focus?

Only 10-14 children under the age of 12 were killed during the October 7th attack, it varies depending on which report you read, depending on the date it was written, 2 being under 1. So the claims that people saw 40 beheaded babies in one area, is obviously false.

There’s no exact numbers, hence why I did not say most, or majority, I just said many. There’s many reports by eye witnesses, military analysts and military participants. That have stated that the Israeli military fired indiscriminately on both Hamas and Israelis. On houses in the kibbutz’s to kill the terrorists while not seeming to care that Israeli hostages were there too. There are various reports of the Hannibal directive, both before October 7th and after. Which basically seems to state that killing of israeli hostages is allowed to stop them being taken, or in the process of being taken. And also to kill Hamas and the Israeli civilians are just collateral damage.

I did not say anything who did or did not
see beheaded babies. Regardless, I cannot believe we are still discussing whether murdered babies had their bloody heads cut off. How insensitive to the families of the Israeli babies and,
of course, the huge number of murdered Palestinian babies and children. Neither is worse. Each innocent young life lost is truly tragic

There are always “reports”, there is not clear evidence. We need to deal with actual facts and raw numbers.

“while not seeming to care that Israeli hostages were there to” is unnecessary and uneducated.

why can people not stick to facts? People act like they have insider knowledge when they do not. People spew all sorts of poor information on this threads.

back to the topic of the thread….

It is perfectly human to feel connected to one particular story. It doesn’t mean the other stolen lives does not have equal value and meaning.

@Doggydoggy october 7 was an appalling massacre of unarmed coviloans - including children - which included brutal rapes and the kidnapping of hostages including a mother with her baby and toddler.

hamas are still holding hostages, including the baby and the toddler.

israel has historically done and is currently doing some awful things. However, it is nowhere near the horror of Hamas.

Hamas are fucking horrific but say Israel is nowhere the horror of Hamas, is well frankly blinkered and ridiculous.

im not claiming one is worse than the other. But Israel has massacred circa 30,000 innocent civilians in roughly 100 days. How is that even vaguely nowhere near the horror of Hamas.

The reports I mention are based on first hand accounts and analysis by military people and analysts and investigators. I’m largely sticking to facts quoted in reports and summarised in online reports and articles from various different sources.

i only mentioned beheaded babies as the person I had initially quoted said utter nonsense to a post someone else had written that said about the beheaded babies lie. I stupidly didn’t look at the username, and assumed you were the person I had quoted, so I apologise for that. I was just stating that that was one lie as only roughly quarter of the number of the claimed 40 babies who were beheaded, actually died and that was under 12s not necessarily babies. So that shows that the whole beheaded baby thing was indeed a false claim. So just fact correcting.

the not seeming to care about the Israeli people while shooting was just me putting the various reports into a single sentence, not me just making stuff up. Doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true but I’m just summarising the various articles and reports I’ve read.

@Doggydoggy what do you think Hamas would have done if it’s invasion of Israel was successful?

Well, simply because you haven't apparently happened to see them does not mean they are not there. They are regularly posted on numerous, verified Instagram accounts. The majority are uploaded directly to TikTok by countless iOf members. There are also countless videos from Palestinian journalists ~ the ones who have been able to narrowly avoid being murdered by Israel despite countless deliberate, targeted attempts to silence them.

Plenty have been submitted as further evidence of war crimes and genocide. The iOf have a particular liking for posting these videos which has resulted in a couple being given the token "suspension" as a result of too much outcry about them. Some have been reported upon on various news sites in this country also.

Which ones happen to be the "poor taste ones"? I would say that taking women's underwear and coming out with what they were is disturbing. One of the individuals happened to be a part British soldier who is back here now after openly, and happily, murdering children and women. Raiding people's homes and stealing items is completely horrendous behaviour.

Then there are the enormous amount of videos documenting the horrendous injuries that are happening to innocent men, women and children. The premature babies also left alone due to the iOf forcing what was left of the hospital staff (after they had bombed and murdered the rest) to leave at gunpoint. But then Israel has been particularly outspoken that as far as they are concerned, anyone and everyone happens to be a "terrorist" Videos documenting the clear use of white phosphorus on civilians. A UK doctor who had treated these injuries nonstop gave evidence here confirming that these were indeed injuries due to that being used.

The videos of innocent civilians being deliberately targeted by snipers. Men, women and children being murdered in cold blood despite not being a threat. People murdered despite holding a white flag (not just talking about their own hostages that they murdered while holding a white flag.)

Which part is apparently "nonsense" and "lies"

There have been numerous reports about what actually happened. Simply because it does not fit in with what you would like it to be, does not mean that it is "nonsense" and "lies"

As for last part what is that actually about?

Womens breast were cut off while they were alive ( then the played football with them🤢)....they cut a pregnant women's baby out of her stomach. They gang raped children.

Murders of innocent Israelis happened on October 7, but there is no footage of the events you describe above. One eye witness claimed the woman had her breast cut off. No bodies showing that. Even Israeli tv this week discussed some of the initial reports, such as babies beheaded, a baby burnt in the oven did not happen

You won’t get any good responses on here @newstart24
Mumsnet has been taken over by the Hamas fan club.

You can be appalled at what Hamas did and equally appalled at the indiscriminate vicious bombing of Gaza and at the trickle of aid and food Israel is allowing to enter Gaza meaning civilians have little food, water and 1.8 million of them displaced from their homes now living in tents.

People make all sorts of claims and then say “oh it’s out there.”

If there is proof this has happened, it is truly disgusting. However, even if it didn’t happen, the murders of innocent civilians especially children is abhorrent.

I have never said it wasn’t. Hamas have agreed to release the hostages as part of a ceasefire agreement.

It almost seems like a ceasefire is the first step to deescalating the situation and bringing an end to the unending death and cruelty

@Pottedfern or it’s almost like Hamas could
just give back the hostages who they have zero justification to have

fo you genuinely think Hamas would adhere to a ceasefire?

shame on you.

and as far as I know,
there was no footage of Jews being thrown into furnaces and being gassed alive at Auschwitz, just photos of the smoke rising from the crematoria and photos of dead bodies and photos of their belongings left
behind and photos of people being lined up to go for a "shower" and yes,
some people think it was all a lie and are holocaust deniers.