To be haunted by this (Israel/Hamas)

[newstart24]

The second picture, of the little girl sitting on her mother’s (I presume) knee. My DD is a similar age and I can’t get it out of my head. I just hope she got out of the situation and is ok. This country has its problems but bloody hell, when you think what other people in the world are going through, we are all so lucky to live here.

Israel shares horrific October 7 footage as it denies genocide charge

https://mol.im/a/13005021

Hamas invaded Israel and commited a massacre and took hostages including babies that it won’t give back.

Hamas is bombing Israel

Hamas is deliberately and consciously hiding military facilities behind civilians

Hamas stated aim is to destroy Israel

Well said.

I'm haunted by the thought of children starving due to the man-made famine in Gaza. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/16/middleeast/gaza-famine-starvation-un-israel-war-intl-hnk/index.html

But they aren’t ’attacking Hamas’. They’re indiscriminately bombing Palestine because they say Hamas ‘might be there’. Palestinian kids shouldn’t die. I appreciate the music festival attack was horrendous. Do you think that all the Palestinian children who have died in response is ‘fair’? That because Hamas killed Israeli kids, Israel can kill Palestinian kids?

Tangentially related: did you get any more information than the rest of us on when Israel claimed they found miles of Hamas tunnels under a Palestinian hospital? Did they actually find anyone under there who was a terrorist? Did that story come to anything? Did they bomb a hospital and amazingly find a huge terrorist base? Or did that story just disappear off air in the west when bombing a hospital couldn’t be further justified?

Yes, fantastic. I fully appreciate this - I think we all do. Hamas wants to destroy Israel, that is one of their tenets. Hamas is an organisation designed to oppose the Israeli state.

I have two questions for you:

1. do you think ‘Hamas’ and ‘Palestine’ mean the same? They don’t. Just like how ‘EDL’ and ‘UK’ don’t mean the same.
2. do you think that Israel is not also killing babies or children whenever they bomb Gaza (or Palestine in general)?

I would also like to question the ‘hiding military behind civilians’ element. You would be surprised, but the people who, for example, clean the floors in the MI6 buildings, are classed as ‘civilian’. If MI6 were bombed - even if nobody was in the surrounding streets - civilians would die. It is much easier to manipulate the word ‘civilian’ than you think.

Indeed Israel did find evidence of terror under the hospitals.

They found evidence of where the hostages had previously been held. They found multiple caches of weapons (hidden in incubators if you so wish to go into details.) They found mazes of tunnel holding the motorbikes that Hamas terrorists used to enter Gaza. Yes they did find legitimate evidence of Hamas using hospitals a cover/ civilian shield for their terror activities.
Apologies that Aljazeera never reported this particular piece of information.

What happened on October 7th is the worst terrorist atrocity since 9/11 . Arguably it's actually far worse due to the deparavety of the way the victims were killed. Womens breast were cut off while they were alive ( then the played football with them🤢)....they cut a pregnant women's baby out of her stomach. They gang raped children. That people on the west are supporting these terrorist turns my stomach. You need to be anti Hamas NOT pro Palestine! Hamas are not as any good for normal Palestinians either... everyone will have better lives with Hamas gone. Support Israel to get real support to for civilians on both sides.

Do you have proof of them finding these? I’d love to read it! I posted a reply earlier containing several links to actual proof of the media dehumanising Gazans through language.

I’d love the links to what you’re saying here so I can read them (and I’m sure effortlessly debunk them).

I can’t say I’ve read al-jazeera before! I actually like to read Haaretz - Jewish newspaper, over 100 years old. It’s reputable.

There are videos of everything I've posted online if you search far enough 🤢.....they were shown to journalists from all countries but obviously not show widely to protect the victims.

At the end of the day, though, OP, YANBU I’m feeling horrified and sad and protective and all of that over your kid, because you saw a photo of an Israeli girl who had been forced from her home. I’m sorry that girl was displaced, and I hope your kids never are.

But situationally, kids in Palestine are suffering and dying at such a rate that you saying ‘oh I feel so sorry for this one Israeli kid’ came off as if you don’t care about any Palestinian kids.

I’m not saying you don’t care about Palestinian kids. I’m just saying the way you worded your post was ambiguous. But you said something that you know is contentious in this day and age. so a little yabu there.

‘If you search far enough’ yes and I’m sure if I search far enough I can find a video of a toddler typing Shakespeare on a typewriter.

Are you a highly acclaimed journalist? Did you see what they saw? If not, you’re speculating.

Yep.

As a Jewish woman I’ve found myself having to stay off these kind of threads for a while. It’s absolutely teeming with anti-semitism

But I please implore everyone to stop and think about why Hamas even did this, even for a second.

I actually cannot comprehend that THIS is the reaction to innocent people being kidnapped and killed, to women being raped and tortured then paraded through the streets and to taking and mistreating hostages - if your reaction is anything other than horror and disgust have a fucking word with yourself

People can be saddended by both it’s not a competition

It’s also total BS that coverage is pro-Israel. I think people who claim that are being completely obtuse.

Hamas stated aim is to destroy Israel

Not just Israel. But all Jews.

But Jews Don’t Count in 2024

So that’s a yes then, you did join just to post this?

So what if they did?

The total desperation for people to not sit up and notice what’s happening to Jewish people in Israel is fucking terrifying. It’s happened before too - people being told to STFU about concerns over their Jewish neighbours. And, well, look how that turned out.

And… you think Palestinians were left to live in peace before this? You think it was just some happy ‘two countries living next to each other’ situation? Do you think the 500+ complaints made to the UN about Israeli treatment of Palestinians between 2014-2018 were just sheer lies?

The IDF and Israel in general have been abusing Palestine on a violently national scale. Do you think that the IDF are a perfect idealistic military who haven’t ever comitted rape or murder? What are they actually doing? Are they ‘defending the Jewish state’? They can go to hell because I’m a Jew and I think they’re horrendous.

In this report - maybe you don’t trust the human rights watch, though! - you can read from the beginning how, over decades, Israel entrenched a culture of discrimination regarding Palestinians and slowly excluded them from life in the country from the 1950s onwards, until the ‘modern’ situation (pre-war) where there were several Palestinian ‘sections‘ entirely contained within Israel or Israeli waters.

And as it reaches modern times, it explains how Palestine is being shrunk (within the same or growing population) inside Israeli borders. Hopefully you can conclude your own opinions about how the Gaza population is growing even though Palestinians are being genocided. If you don’t get it, I can give you a great metaphor!

I appreciate we have different experiences - Jewish man here. But I don’t think it’s antisemitic to say ‘Israeli doesn’t mean Jew’…

…okay cool Hamas sucks, can we get over this? We hate Hamas. We all agree on this. Palestine is not Hamas.

Up to massive interpretation (English is NOT good at representing either Arabic or Hebrew. Especially with terms that originated in the region.) But either way, nobody is saying Hamas should win, so it’s moot. Everyone is saying, crazily, that all the innocent people should live.

But situationally, kids in Palestine are suffering and dying at such a rate that you saying ‘oh I feel so sorry for this one Israeli kid’ came off as if you don’t care about any Palestinian kids.

I think this is it. Picking out and focusing on one child when children are being killed at such an astonishing rate seems rather strange. Even prior to Oct 7, 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the West Bank on record. One of the children killed said this, which I think highlights just how dreadful the situation has been for a long while, when interviewed by save the children the year before he was killed-

"My dream is to be able to look at anything on my way to school, like birds and greenery. I want to see the things I always imagine. I don't want to smell gas or see soldiers everywhere. I don't want to be scared to go outside. I don't want my mother to be scared that I might get hurt or roam the streets looking for me, fearing I was hurt by Israeli soldiers."

Hopefully, through some miracle lasting peace can be found and children like Yousef won't have such simple dreams denied to them any longer.

Yes. This. 👍