Why don't people just ask for a seat on the train/tube?

[coverp]

Pregnant with DC3, regular commuter (London) on both the train and the tube.

Have just heard from a friend (pregnant with first DC) that she sat in the aisle on the train today as no one offered her a seat even though she had her badge on.

I asked why she didn't just ask someone for a seat - she was shocked and said 'you can't do that!'.

Am I missing something? If I've felt like I needed to sit (usually in first trimester more so than later on, but am now hitting the point where I may need to start again) - I just edge towards a pair or group of priority seats and ask 'Would someone mind letting me sit please?'.

I've probably done this 50+ times over 3 pregnancies and never once not have someone stand up for me with good grace. I avoid people who visibly can't stand easily themselves, and take the approach that it's unlikely that in a group of 6-8 people that every one of them has a hidden disability that makes it hard for them to stand.

Am I breaking some sort of unwritten rule by just using my words to ask? If so, it's probably too late as this is the last baby and I only have a few more weeks to commute, but I guess I'd like to know anyway!

I'm in my 70s and have quite often been offered a seat, which I gratefully accept. I also offer my seat to someone looking like they need it more than me.

Last year I asked a women to take her suitcase off a seat so I could sit down and she refused. That's much worse than keep a seat to sit on yourself.

Re hidden disabilities, when I had a severe prolapse it was similar to being in the last few days of pregnancy, but that is not something that shows and I had to get off the bus next stop if I did not get a seat.

NonPlayerCharacter · Today 12:47 have you been on the London Tube lately? Have you been during rush hour?
I don't know what kind of utopia you live in but public transport has vulnerable people of all types shapes and sizes and not just women who happen to be pregnant.

Pregnancy does affect everyone differently, some people find it utterly debilitating many do not. I have been pregnant and had children multiple times and during those pregnancies I have travelled on public transport.

During those journeys I have seen people far far more vulnerable/less able to stand than I was (and who I would argue are far more in need of a seat than I was).

What is convoluted about that? Do you not do nuance?

Do you think everyone should stand on any public transport at every single stop until everyone has got on and anyone wearing a pregnancy badge has picked the seat they want to sit on?

I was generally offered seats while pregnant, and didn’t travel a huge amount at busy times so they were generally available. I used to feel very sick if I travelled facing backwards though, so regularly had to ask people to swap with me if those were the only seats free, and people were always fine about it. I don’t remember ever travelling with a buggy without people helping me lift it up and down stairs and escalators etc, and people always offered seats on the train and tube when the children were small.

Totally disagree with PP saying a poster with an exhausted toddler should have just stood while holding her. Obviously on a crowded train a small child is far safer and more comfortable if they can sit down with their parents, and in my experience most people recognise this.

Of course you have to ask! I’m sitting reading my newspaper, not scanning a packed carriage for people who might need to sit or might be offended if I offer them my seat.

I’ll leap up if asked, and would expect to do so especially if sitting in a priority seat (which is why I avoid them).

If I need a seat then I ask the person in a priority seat if they need the priority seat. They then notice my bump/badge and give me the seat very willingly. If someone ever replied that yes, they do need it, I would have said "no problem" and moved on to ask someone in a different priority seat. Pregnancy is only one of the entitlements to the priority seat, and I've got no right to demand that someone give me details of their medical history.

I also wouldn't offer my non-priority seat if on a train that had designated priority seats, unless it became clear that they were all already filled with people who needed them. That's the whole point of priority seats, you know what the deal is if you sit in one.

I have asked the person sitting in the priority seat whilst visibly pregnant and wearing the badge, and he just stared me down until someone else offered. I was almost tempted to say “no, it has to be that seat” but couldn’t bring myself to, haha. It does happen unfortunately. With this pregnancy I’ve also had people barge in front of me when the doors are opening to jump in and nab the last free seat, leaving me to stand.

My point was more about assuming you need a seat more than someone already there, and them feeling they have to justify their own need to a complete stranger.
As I said I'd generally offer but occasionally I don't feel well enough/able to offer my seat. I also didn't sit in priority seating to start with.

There's a general sense that you're not supposed to ask for a seat (unseen disabilities) but trust that everyone is doing their best and being pro-social.

Not everyone with an unseen disability wants to wear an unseen disability lanyard.

However, it doesn't stop my ungenerous thought that I frequently give up my seat when much younger, fitter-looking people don't. But, again, I don't know.

More convoluted irrelevance. Either a pregnant woman has a right to be believed when she says she needs a seat, therefore obliging able people to give her one, or she hasn't, therefore not obliging able people to give her one. You can't have it both ways. You can branch off into a separate discussion of "well what if someone else needs it more" but that's an irrelevant deflection. You were contradictory; it happens.

And now I'm bored.

They can just say ‘I need the seat’ — I’m not going to ask for proof!

NonPlayerCharacter · Today 13:06 right oh. Thats convincing. Not.

Some people are ignorant..
I shamed a man on a train once.. he was sat with his bag on the seat next to him.. on his phone.. l have a walking stick and was with my Grandson who has a sunflower lanyard..l asked him if we could sit there.. he said " and where am l suppose to put my bag" l said " on the rail rack above you".
He then said " it's not safe and was unable to lift it due to an hernia "
He had clearly lifted it onto the train.
So loudly l said to the young man in front.
" I'm so happy this bag has got a lovely seat all to itself but would you mind helping it up onto the rack.. so myself and Grandson can sit down.. "
He obliged.. the man kept quiet. Rest of the carriage clapped.

I’ve been offered a seat three times but I was not pregnant 😂All were young people. One was when I had my period and was very bloated and had been rubbing my belly as it was painful. Another in was feeling so sick I almost fainted and a young man insisted I took his seat. And another time the tube wind caused some billowing of my jumper and a young man offered his seat. Oh and an older lady once insisted I have her seat as I had bandaged fingers after cutting myself with a bread knife. She was lovely.

It's not always that simple though, for example if someone has social anxiety or end up feeling bad for sitting somewhere they're entitled to sit.

Oh you totally have to ask. People either advert people's gazes, looking in their phone or trying to ignore everyone around them.

@MorrisZapp 'Last night there were five empty seats on the bus but nobody could get on because a woman had stopped at the door, blocking the view and making everyone think the bus was full. I said 'there's five empty seats up here' in a MN voice and I have never seen such horrified faces. Actual fear.'

I remember a rare trip to London to go to a trade fair. Once in the city I caught a bus but I didn't know where to get off, so having sat down I turned to the couple sitting behind me & asked if they knew the route. I got the same initial reaction you describe - horrified faces with wide-eyed, what-the-hell-is-about-to-happen fear - but they told me the name of the stop & when we got to it, they told me I'd arrived. Bless them, I felt sorry for putting the fear of God into them with my country ways.

Generally I always got a seat on the tube - I think people are conditioned by the badge and train was generally fine. One time I should have asked but didn’t was when a load of trains had been cancelled and it was massively overcrowded and was in the aisle. I get a bit travel sick at the best of times but I was feeling really dizzy and must have looked poorly as a guy standing next to me asked very loudly for someone to give their seat up for a poorly pregnant lady. About 30 men stood up at once and I wanted to die of embarrassment but I did really need a seat or I think I’d have either vomited or toppled over.

@MorrisZapp great user name! Love David Lodge.

Rest of the carriage clapped.
No they didn't.

Seriously tho. How many women out there literally go out onto public transport and pretend to be pregnant when they know they are not and go up to people regularly asking them to give up their seat because they are saying they are pregnant when they are not.

None I would bet.

I think the issue is far more that society in the UK is not set up for either pregnant women or women with children under the age of 5 in terms of social spaces or social acceptance. It is a far wider point than just someone refusing to give up their seat for someone who says they are pregnant.

I used to ask when I was pregnant.

But I understand why some people dont. Some people can get quite aggressive about being asked.

Bluntly, I can’t mind read, or attempt to second guess the possible diagnosed psychological vulnerabilities of strangers on rush hour public transport. I will ask civilly if I need to, and will probably begin with someone in the priority seats if I’m standing nearby, and move on equally civilly to someone else if the first person refuses or says nothing.

If somebody is so acutely vulnerable that having to do something liable to happen semi-regularly, like deal with a request for a seat, is going to upset them, they will need to display something to indicate they should not be asked, evolve coping strategies or travel by some other means.

I don’t see the point of the badge - I don’t think people notice - but anyone who needs it should feel free to ask for a seat. Plenty visible and invisible reasons for needing a seat, and generally people seem willing to move. I’m not in London though…maybe the etiquette is different! I’ve never seen anyone who asked be faced with refusal here.

Or you could just accept that there's a good chance someone on a priority seat has priority, and leave them be.

Or simply feel it's nobody else's business to ask them to move or question their need to be there.