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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to not let him dress like a girl?

413 replies

Cccc412 · 23/01/2024 22:37

Lo is 11 and has ASD (not sure if that's relevant). He's told me he is trans, wants me to buy him dresses, make up, hair extensions etc. This is the first time he has come out and said it although he has made comments about girls clothing being better etc over the past year so I had a feeling this was coming. Not sure how to approach this. My worry is if I do allow him to dress like a girl he will get picked on, he already struggles socially and has been bullied in the past. Also if this is just a phase and he changes his mind, people will not forget and he will have to live with that. Also he will be starting secondary school in September which will be a really tough transition for him. With his ASD he tends to become fixated/obsessed with a topic for months but then it's forgotten about and hes onto the next thing so wondering is this just the latest obsession. Just wondering what others would do if their 11 year old told them they where trans or if anyone else has been in this situation? Aibu to not let him dress as a girl?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 24/01/2024 13:10

literalviolence · 24/01/2024 13:03

how is getting girls to do adult work to control boys them having an easier time? that sounds like boys having an easier time. Both sexes do school work and girls also do this.

It’s an interesting debate. As is the debate about the benefits of all girls’ classes for girls (and the detriment for boys).

but girls tend to be more advanced on average and that seems to be a fairly obvious advantage.

the nature vs. Nurture debate is obviously relevant as well. It’s IMO very likely that girls were (and probably still are…) socialised in a manner that makes it much easier to meet the expectations of teachers.

As a girl who had very few of the stereotypical “girl” traits (in a scholastic context) it was however fairly brutal. My handwriting (as an example) was judged very harshly - much harsher than that of many boys IIRC. We were expected to adhere to higher standards than boys (IMO).

Dacadactyl · 24/01/2024 13:14

He'd have no access to the Internet without me being present (God only knows what he's watching) and no, I'd not allow him to dress like a girl at all.

AFAIK, my year 7 has no idea bout trans yet.

5128gap · 24/01/2024 13:14

If he were my son, I'd be very clear with him that he is a boy as he was born with a male body. But in his own time, he can wear whatever he wants to, including clothes some people think are 'for girls' and grow his hair long if he wants to.

Hair extensions would be a hard no as they are costly and damaging to hair and imo not OK for 11 year olds of either sex. Make up would also be a no as its not age appropriate, but we could think again when he was a bit older.

I'd point out to him that if he chooses to wear clothes associated with girls for school, he may get bullied and teased, but we would support him to challenge that, as would the school.

Any talk of being 'really a girl' I'd respond by repeating that he didn't need to be a girl to wear and do the things people think girls do, as boys can do these things too.

Viamar · 24/01/2024 13:17

He may see this move as a way out of his problems. I have an option here that will help! Maybe the teasing/bullying will stop if I don't have to conform to male stereotypes ? Maybe life would be easier as a girl? Maybe the girls at his school are kinder to him ?Could he have uni sex clothes in the mean time while he makes his mind up 100%.
Either way, let him know you will abide by his wishes.

AStrangeStateofMatter · 24/01/2024 13:17

5128gap · 24/01/2024 13:14

If he were my son, I'd be very clear with him that he is a boy as he was born with a male body. But in his own time, he can wear whatever he wants to, including clothes some people think are 'for girls' and grow his hair long if he wants to.

Hair extensions would be a hard no as they are costly and damaging to hair and imo not OK for 11 year olds of either sex. Make up would also be a no as its not age appropriate, but we could think again when he was a bit older.

I'd point out to him that if he chooses to wear clothes associated with girls for school, he may get bullied and teased, but we would support him to challenge that, as would the school.

Any talk of being 'really a girl' I'd respond by repeating that he didn't need to be a girl to wear and do the things people think girls do, as boys can do these things too.

Very sensible!

fabricstash · 24/01/2024 13:20

No to make up at school but what is wrong with wearing make up outside of school? In the 80s & 90s this was not unusual in many sub cultures

kisstheblarney · 24/01/2024 13:30

fabricstash · 24/01/2024 13:20

No to make up at school but what is wrong with wearing make up outside of school? In the 80s & 90s this was not unusual in many sub cultures

It's not the 80s or 90s and no child needs make up!

JamJar59 · 24/01/2024 13:36

OP, of course you’re not being unreasonable.

What does the father feel about this?

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2024 13:39

literalviolence · 24/01/2024 13:03

how is getting girls to do adult work to control boys them having an easier time? that sounds like boys having an easier time. Both sexes do school work and girls also do this.

That isn’t what’s happening. Girls are used as an example of acceptable behaviour by teachers. “Look at Mary, if she can sit quietly and get on with her work, why can’t you?”

Calliopespa · 24/01/2024 13:41

Lexblip · 24/01/2024 11:16

I am going to keep this short if you do not support your child you will not have a son you will not have a daughter you will have no one. The best case is they run away but more likely they will join one of the 400 or so trans people to die per year. start by doing the little things like using her correct pronouns. help her find gender-affirming healthcare fyi puberty blockers are 100% reversible and HRT is extremely reusable puberty is not and I have to live with the damage from going through male puberty for the rest of my life. FYI I have specialist mental health training for gender diverse people I am also a trans MTF myself.

Are you a parent? Because you sound more like a difficult teen. It’s a parents job not to be manipulated by the fear of their children throwing their toys out of the pram. I hear your empathy around the issue; but this is incredibly early days in this dcs journey to transitioning - if that’s what it even turns out to be. Understanding but also guidance and moderation are critical factors in parenting.

NettleTea · 24/01/2024 13:47

fabricstash · 24/01/2024 13:20

No to make up at school but what is wrong with wearing make up outside of school? In the 80s & 90s this was not unusual in many sub cultures

not for 11 year olds

PartridgeInAPearShape · 24/01/2024 13:49

Just want to push back against the idea of ‘grooming adults transing autistic children’ by sharing our family story.
My child (autistic) has flags as one of their special interests. Has always loved knowing the flags of every country, US State, and lots of other flags(they are amazing at pub quizzes). One day they found a site created by a gender nonconforming autistic teen which had links all the different flags of the LGBTQIA+ communities.https://www.hrc.org/resources/lgbtq-pride-flags

(We had previously attended a picnic in support of same-sex marriage which is banned where we are, and my child had been interested to see all the Pride flags 🏳️‍⚧️ 🏳️‍🌈 especially as they have always loved rainbows).

Anyway, absolutely fascinating to my kid and they went on a big reading and researching mission to learn all about these different flags

that got them thinking about their own identity and they told me they didn’t feel like a heterosexual neurotypical boy or girl but something different and nonbinary felt right, and they wanted to use they/them pronouns and present as androgynous. They felt they had little in common with the football playing boys at school and preferred to hang out with girls. They also had a crush on one of the girls so didn’t think they were gay.

They also said they were upset at the idea of losing their child’s body and growing facial and body hair. (They have always disliked transitions and used to cry on the eve their birthday at the idea of changing their age).

So we were supportive and said puberty can be tough, and being autistic can be tough and it’s normal to think about what your identity is and how you feel about yourself can change over time. Remember when you were x age and into y and then you changed and got into other things? We will always love you and we want you to feel safe and it’s fine to try out different ways of thinking about your identity. We didn’t talk about medical transitioning because they were 11! We talked about if you don’t like having hairy legs, pits or facial hair you can shave. We explained that puberty and adolescence takes a long time, it’s not a sudden transformation, and it’s normal to have questions, worries and strong powerful feelings - and that the feelings can change like weather systems rolling through.

We let them grow their hair long, wear eyeliner and blue nail polish at weekends and school holidays, and we did a lot of talking about internet safety, consent, privacy and not interacting with anyone online who you didn’t know in real life (but leaving comments on YouTube gamer influencers was fine).

They blossomed. I can’t imagine what it would have been like if they felt shamed or scolded.

Several months later they decided they were probably a gender nonconforming neurodivergent boy using he/they pronouns who mostly liked girls and had a straight, male autistic best friend. That’s where they are now aged 13 and every day I’m so glad that they feel safe exploring and learning about how fantastic they are.

LGBTQ+ Pride Flags

In the LGBTQ+ community, we signify our pride with flags. With many different identities in the community, there comes many different flags to know. We have collected all of the flags and a guide to learn about all of the different colors of our commun...

https://www.hrc.org/resources/lgbtq-pride-flags

HalliwellManor · 24/01/2024 13:51

mummy21blueeyed · 23/01/2024 23:12

@HowDoTheyGetThroughLife I’m with you!! Sorry I work in a reception class and there’s a book called you need To chill
or something on the shelf for 4/5 year olds to read and it infuriates me. I’m all
for us supporting other Adults if they wish to change although I don’t agree I think a man is a man a woman is a woman. But never mind I don’t hate on them I just say nothing.

however this book on a 4 year olds shelf is practically telling them and teaching them that it’s okay to want to be something else rather than embrace who they are and what gender they are which in my opinion at 4/5 years old thwy should not even be thinking about gender changes.. it’s on the same shelf as a race book to teach about loving everyone as they are but race and transitioning gender are two different things and one should be taught the other shouldn’t.

i would be encouraging everything but allowing him to wear dresses. It’s becoming too normal in my opinion. I understand people don’t feel comfortable etc but why are we broadcasting it to our Children as if it’s normal. My 2 year old will be taught to love herself and be herself and she will be told to ignore books as such but care everyone for who they are no matter what background. But I absolutely do not support supporting or teqxhomf young children about transgender

Completely agree with you,it's as if they purposely plant the seed of doubt into kids heads as to whether they are a boy or a girl!,it's so normalised and dare I say encouraged for kids to question their identity and I bet a pound to a penny if this shit wasn't put in their heads they would never have questioned their 'identity' in the first place!.
The world has gone mad,it really has!

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/01/2024 13:52

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2024 12:52

The thing I'm struggling to get my head around the most is that he thinks women's lives are easier!

He thinks girls’ lives are easier. Research shows that girls have an easier time in school than boys.

it has been found that teachers see boys as more demanding and difficult to teach than girls (Skelton & Francis, Citation2003). Teachers also often have lower expectations of boys than girls and enlist girls in the battle to ‘police, teach, control and civilise boys’ (Epstein et al., Citation1998).

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02643944.2021.1977986

I would argue that being used to pacify the boys and being on the receiving end of the majority of at-school sexual violence is not an "easier time".

texting

School abuse: 'Rape culture' warning as 8,000 report incidents

Police promise a helpline and will investigate the allegations - and blame pornography.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56558487

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/01/2024 13:57

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2024 13:39

That isn’t what’s happening. Girls are used as an example of acceptable behaviour by teachers. “Look at Mary, if she can sit quietly and get on with her work, why can’t you?”

  1. Girls are deliberately sat next to boys in class to separate the boys from each other and pacify them, regardless of the disruption that the boys cause to the girls by continuing to misbehave.
  2. The playground consequences of being the model student who is held up in class as an example range from swot-shaming to brutal violence.
OldCrone · 24/01/2024 14:14

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 24/01/2024 13:10

It’s an interesting debate. As is the debate about the benefits of all girls’ classes for girls (and the detriment for boys).

but girls tend to be more advanced on average and that seems to be a fairly obvious advantage.

the nature vs. Nurture debate is obviously relevant as well. It’s IMO very likely that girls were (and probably still are…) socialised in a manner that makes it much easier to meet the expectations of teachers.

As a girl who had very few of the stereotypical “girl” traits (in a scholastic context) it was however fairly brutal. My handwriting (as an example) was judged very harshly - much harsher than that of many boys IIRC. We were expected to adhere to higher standards than boys (IMO).

If girls are held to a higher standard than boys, they're not having an easier time. It's the boys who are having an easier time.

OldCrone · 24/01/2024 14:18

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2024 13:39

That isn’t what’s happening. Girls are used as an example of acceptable behaviour by teachers. “Look at Mary, if she can sit quietly and get on with her work, why can’t you?”

I do hope you're not a teacher.

ComeAlongPeggy · 24/01/2024 14:27

None of which will ever happen to him as he’s not going to be a woman.

AccountantMum · 24/01/2024 14:34

Lexblip · 24/01/2024 11:16

I am going to keep this short if you do not support your child you will not have a son you will not have a daughter you will have no one. The best case is they run away but more likely they will join one of the 400 or so trans people to die per year. start by doing the little things like using her correct pronouns. help her find gender-affirming healthcare fyi puberty blockers are 100% reversible and HRT is extremely reusable puberty is not and I have to live with the damage from going through male puberty for the rest of my life. FYI I have specialist mental health training for gender diverse people I am also a trans MTF myself.

This seems crazy - suggesting her son will die if she doesn't call him a girl and give him medicine he doesn't need and hasn't asked for?!?

I would be concerned if someone with these views was giving this advice to children

Nestofwalnuts · 24/01/2024 14:40

@PartridgeInAPearShape what a sane post. What a good parent you are. Kind and balanced and not pushing anything, just allowing inquisitive exploration without funnelling it in any given direction.

literalviolence · 24/01/2024 14:40

BIossomtoes · 24/01/2024 13:39

That isn’t what’s happening. Girls are used as an example of acceptable behaviour by teachers. “Look at Mary, if she can sit quietly and get on with her work, why can’t you?”

I have a very well behaved girl and I can tell you that she absolutely was used to controlling boys to the detriment of her own education. It was not 'do what Mary does does'. It was 'sit next to Mary and she can shush you when you speak and pick up the things you drop and re explain the.task in every group'. bloody offensive to see that as her having an easier time

EcoChica1980 · 24/01/2024 14:48

trippily · 23/01/2024 22:42

September is a long way away. You'll only make it more exciting if you forbid it, whilst driving a wedge between you.

She may also, just be trans. In which case it would be very damaging for her for you to deny her gender affirmation.

No doubt everyone will be here in a minute to tell you all trans people are evil calculating rapists (whilst simultaneously reminding you there's no transphobia on mumsnet ofc).

Suicide rates among trans youth is so high. I wouldn't risk it personally if it were my child. If it turns out not to be the thing who cares. Plenty of young people try identities on for size.

'Suicide rates among trans youth is so high. I wouldn't risk it personally if it were my child.'

This is a distortion of the evidence that is out there on this issue and an dismal thing to say to a parent.

Idontwantavaluablelimelesson · 24/01/2024 15:00

Lexblip · 24/01/2024 11:16

I am going to keep this short if you do not support your child you will not have a son you will not have a daughter you will have no one. The best case is they run away but more likely they will join one of the 400 or so trans people to die per year. start by doing the little things like using her correct pronouns. help her find gender-affirming healthcare fyi puberty blockers are 100% reversible and HRT is extremely reusable puberty is not and I have to live with the damage from going through male puberty for the rest of my life. FYI I have specialist mental health training for gender diverse people I am also a trans MTF myself.

Oh Christ we're all doomed.Can anyone on here with a more balanced view please promise me that they aren't going to be afraid to express their balanced view in the real world? It's so important that people with such an extreme agenda realise that that's exactly what it is. I really don't want my child to grow up thinking that this is a normal or healthy way of thinking

kisstheblarney · 24/01/2024 15:03

Lexblip · 24/01/2024 11:16

I am going to keep this short if you do not support your child you will not have a son you will not have a daughter you will have no one. The best case is they run away but more likely they will join one of the 400 or so trans people to die per year. start by doing the little things like using her correct pronouns. help her find gender-affirming healthcare fyi puberty blockers are 100% reversible and HRT is extremely reusable puberty is not and I have to live with the damage from going through male puberty for the rest of my life. FYI I have specialist mental health training for gender diverse people I am also a trans MTF myself.

It shirt enough and FFS the OPs child is a HE! As she has confirmed!

Another jump the gun post.