Aibu to not let him dress like a girl?

[Cccc412]

Lo is 11 and has ASD (not sure if that's relevant). He's told me he is trans, wants me to buy him dresses, make up, hair extensions etc. This is the first time he has come out and said it although he has made comments about girls clothing being better etc over the past year so I had a feeling this was coming. Not sure how to approach this. My worry is if I do allow him to dress like a girl he will get picked on, he already struggles socially and has been bullied in the past. Also if this is just a phase and he changes his mind, people will not forget and he will have to live with that. Also he will be starting secondary school in September which will be a really tough transition for him. With his ASD he tends to become fixated/obsessed with a topic for months but then it's forgotten about and hes onto the next thing so wondering is this just the latest obsession. Just wondering what others would do if their 11 year old told them they where trans or if anyone else has been in this situation? Aibu to not let him dress as a girl?

I would say that understanding the context Is essential, and that to describe social transitioning only as changing name and pronouns is overly simplistic in my opinion.

Transitioning is a process (it's recognised as such in the Equality Act).

A child who wears clothes associated with the other sex, but has no confusion about their sex/gender isn't socially transitioning, of course not. (FWIW, this describes me as a child, I hated "girls" clothes).

But if a child is expressing that they want to be the other sex, then wearing clothes traditionally associated with that sex could very well be the beginning of social transitioning.

I'm not saying they should be prevented from wearing such clothes necessarily. But that saying "crack on, let them wear what they like, nothing bad will happen" is potentially irresponsible / dangerous advice and not a reflection of reality.

For many DC who take this path, it has further developed into a medical transitioning with the significant health risks outlined in previous posts.

If one of my DC was expressing a desire to be the opposite sex, that would be my cue to get them and me appropriate support from an organisation that's not promoting gender ideology, and to explore with them what's going on, and how best to move forward, while making sure they know actually changing sex is impossible.

Whether the best approach for that individual child includes wearing clothes associated with the opposite sex or not depends on that child and what the wearing of such clothes means to them.

Blithely suggesting the child should cross dress within or outside the home and nothing bad could come of it is irresponsible given the huge risks associated with medical transition and the very real pressure from multiple sources online and at school that young gender non confirming DC will be under to "accept" a trans identity.

FWIW, when my DS started secondary he had long hair. He had no question about his gender, but he had to put up with other kids constantly asking if he was trans / a girl / wanted to be a girl. Luckily he falls into the category of DC who are confident and don't care what others think, but let's be honest here, being a pre-teen and teen is a tough time and few posess such confidence in the face of peer pressure. I certainly didn't, but luckily when I dressed "like a boy" it was seen as perfectly normal and no one asked me if I wanted to be one.

Sorry that's so long winded!

TL:DR - this is a complex issue, there's no one-size-fits-all approach. Youth medical transition seriously damages health and anything that could push a child towards it needs to be treated with extreme caution.

the 'life is easier for girls' trope comes from the incel community. And sadly, if he is surrounded by a bunch of overtly macho posturing boys (dont forget this is year 6, a year of a bit over confident and big for their boots know it alls at that point) then he may be judging from what the most Alpha of this group is saying.
If he is like my son, he will find those boys intimidating.
My son, who is now coming up to 18, has ASD, and hates football. He is a kind, sensitive, quiet boy, who until around year 3 preferred to hang out with the girls because they seemed kinder, wanted to play imaginative games, and were not interested in football - which seemed to be the majority defining element of 'being a boy' at that point - as well as being pretty loud and alot of rough housing.
He struggled when the girls started to not want to play with boys, and was bullied for a while, until he found a couple of boys in the year above (also both a bit individual, but confident enough to withstand being odd) and they bonded over quite a niche computer game they liked, as opposed to Fortnite, and the like, which everyone else played.
He had long hair, and had loved pink at nursery, until he was sharply put in his place about that colour when he went to school. However at year 6 he was confident to just say 'yes Im wierd' and roll with it.
Secondary was even more narrow in the definition of what it was to be a boy or a girl, and he was constantly asked if he was gay, because he wasnt, at 11, asking girls out, interested in them sexually, interested in football, and playing the wrong games. He was bullied again. I changed his school in yr 9 and put him in an idependant small school with a heavy inclusion of creative and performing arts, and he has flourished. Even wore his best Bright Pink shirt to Prom. Incidentally, in that school, where everyone is encouraged to be a confident well rounded child, where individuality is quietly accepted, there are alot of children who are gay, lesbian or bisexual, and its really positive to see that it simply isnt an issue at all. Mixed sex friendgroups are also common, and there are straight girls who are what some would consider 'boyish' and boys who are quite effeminate - it seems to have no bearing on their sexuality. But there are no trans kids.

Because it is an issue that is increasingly affecting society at large and everyone has a right to discuss it.
I do agree that there is nothing more irritating that the “ ist” terms. It’s an attempt to dismiss a point of view by making it sound like a pathological issue.

A child who expresses the belief that they are the other sex is highly likely to be peeved at the different treatment of boys and girls and horrified at the changing body

At least that was my personal experience

In the days when fortunately people just let you get on with growing up rather than trying to "treat" you in ways that can lead to the sterilisation of the none conforming

Expressing yourself is fine, believing you are actually the other sex, is not. That's the difference.

A Gender Ideologist is one who buys into the religious cult of Gender Ideology. And it is a cult, as Richard Dawkins says.

Yes, there are so many threads because womens and girls rights are being taken away, and we are sick and bloody tired of it! So we won't stop talking about it. We don't need to have knowledge or understanding of this to know that women and girls deserve human rights. Sorry that upsets you, but women say NO and we will NEVER stop fighting for our human rights.

It is not dangerous to not affirm, it's dangerous to tell them you don't love them however they are. It's also incredibly regressive, and sexist to say that only females can wear dresses and like pink - for example. A male can do all of those things and be happy - gender, if it exists at all (and a majority do not) is entirely cultural and therefore not a rule, just a feel. He can wear whatever he wants, still a boy, girls can wear and do anything. So can boys.

I would really recommend this book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Kids-Say-Theyre-Trans/dp/1800752644/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1706087419&sr=8-1

and this podcast (this specific episode and the rest)

There is a lot more to this than just saying yes - affirmation is not neutral, don;t jump on either side and possibly hurt your child. Please look at the bigger picture and quickly.

My son, at 11, who hates football, said these things to me - he's never done a stereotypically girly thing in his life, but the culture has pointed him at trans as a solution and a label

I have asd/adhd adult ds.
When he was little he played with prams- I let him. When he was 7 he wanted to be a train driver. When he was 10 he wanted to be a chef. Now he doesn’t have a clue what he wants to do.
When he was 11 he told me he was gay and I told him not a problem ( massive problem for his father who I am divorced from) but I did advise him to think about it as his life was hard enough due to his various medical conditions. We discussed lifestyle choices as opposed to it being ‘him’ intrinsically.

When he was 17 he brought home his first love- a girl.
When he was young he had his hair right down his back, when he was 12 he saved it to the wood and dyed it green. When he was 19 he grew it long again and now it is somewhere inbetween. When he was young he wouldn’t wear clothes in house, when he was 9 he only would clothes on his top half because ‘bottom’ clothes were uncomfortable. Since he was 10 he has worn various ‘dressing gowns of doom’ in house so he was ‘covered up’ but comfy.
As an adult he has a set wardrobe of black joggers with old trainers and soft T-shirts and will occasionally wear a hoody if he’s cold.
He never wore a tie fully up in school ( had permission) or put his top button in. He also wore trainers to school and on most days plain black joggers.
He is massively sensory seeking and will literally not wear anything he considers uncomfortable.
I let him, I support him but I don’t encourage him when he is focused on something as I know in a few months he will likely swap again.
I didn’t let him have age inappropriate clothing/toys etc.
I wouldn’t have let my ds wear hair extensions at age 11. I wouldn’t have let her wear inappropriate clothing. I wouldn’t have let my ds either but I did listen and work with him to find clothing that was comfortable for him.
There is a lady right now on tic tock who is de transing as she realises, as an adult, that she simply wanted to be more comfortable and she has realised that actually being dressed in gender neutral clothes is all she ever needed. She hasn’t told her family yet as she is worried about the fallout.
What I’m saying is that your son is very young and I believe in treating young kids as young kids. Supporting them but also helping them realise that life with asd can be hard enough. It’s a very tough time for a young teen to grow into and peer pressure is so high at min.

I've PM'd you.
This is a really difficult topic to discuss on here.
While there can be good advice, some people are just incredibly hurtful.
They forget that real people are behind these posts

Lying to children is abhorrent. Your son can put on girl-costume, but he will never be a girl.

@Tandora This is everywhere because trans activists often start such threads. If the OP is not a TRA looking for comments they can quote elsewhere they need help - and not the sort of help that forces gender stereotypes on their child. TRAs want to enforce gender stereotypes. misogyny and homophobia. OP needs signposting to support that will let her child develop their own personality without physically harming them.

This, exactly.

Well times have changed and this gender experimentation is more acceptable now. My son wanted dolls so he got dolls. My daughter loved to play football but when I bought her a football she complained because it was a boy's toy.

I didn't try to impose gender specific toys or gender social cues at all. But they developed their own. This was in the 80s btw

One of my friends is much younger than me and I respect her parenting above all others. Her son dresses how he wants. He's grown his hair and mainly wears dresses. He doesn't want to be a girl. He has choices. He doesn't get bullied. He has the confidence to be himself.

I don't know the answer but I do have opinions. My opinion is that western gender classification is outdated. In most other cultures it's the men who dress up and wear makeup etc (traditionally I mean, tribesmen etc). Even in the animal kingdom the males have all the colour and flamboyance.

I strongly disagree with giving anyone hormones to change their biology. I also disagree with surgery for the same. (Note, surgery for health conditions where biology is ambiguous, like Turners syndrome, is not the same as 'normal' biology being changed).

It isn't really a difficult topic. Children should be told about gender stereotypes and that it's fine to go against these stereotypes. My brother sometimes dressed as a girl lower down in primary school. He's straight and definitely a man, but likes the odd pink thing.

OP could find pink boxers and pink t-shirts to show her son that it's ok to like pink. She also needs to talk about puberty and how girls don't 'have it easy.'

I don’t understand what you mean by part of the condition or an aspect of identity?

It’s neither, and both, surely?

My kid for example, is autistic- that is an element of his identity. He has a particular sense of style and dressing, that’s another element of identity. He also loves CrossFit, kickboxing and karate. He likes art galleries but can’t stand the ballet. He won’t eat eggs. He is working on year 9 science, but struggling with writing fluency.

These are all just elements of his identity.

Some are more influenced more by his asd (education related), some more by his primary socialisation. As he gets older secondary socialisation will start to become a bigger factor.

This is all entirely normal, asd or not.

You've had some good advice OP (and a few dire suggestions). I'd add one more which is to look at what's being said in his school.
Unfortunately some schools have abandoned all critical thinking and got themselves signed up to Stonewall & the porn / paedophile scandal hit Mermaids. Both these groups (and others) are dedicated to removing single sex sport, changing rooms etc from girls and insisting that boys liking pink etc are really the opposite sex and encouraging schools to transition children in secret from their parents.
There are some new guidelines for schools coming out which I'll post a link for (just in case he's in one of those schools) This is written by a clinical psychologist and explains how we're harming primary school children by pretending they can be the opposite sex. It's worth a read:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

This. DD wears baggy jeans and oversized hoodies and that is "dressing like a girl" just as much as wearing a dress or skirt.

@Cccc412
As he is good at cooking, I would nurture the fact and show him lots of male role models eg watching back editions of Bake Off there are great series with male winners eg Guiseppe was 2-3 years ago, Matty last year. Can you find him some cookery lessons? I bet he won't be the only boy there!

How exactly should boys behave?

when it comes to dresses. Harry Styles wears dresses, big chunky necklaces, feather boas etc. None of that makes him any less a man. None of it makes him female.

I didn't say autistic people aren't immune, but I think characterising this child as misogynistic because he thinks girls have it easier is completely OTT

Here are the new draft guidelines for schools about gender questioning children. They prioritise safeguarding, keeping parents involved, anti bullying and explain the law as it relates to children - not what Stonewall etc claim it to be.
They're worth reading, especially for parents with children in schools where transactivism is being pushed at them. They're at the consultation stage so parents can respond to them:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/supporting_documents/Gender%20Questioning%20Children%20%20nonstatutory%20guidance.pdf

A big NO to make up and hair extensions.

Actual hair length is up to discussion. (It takes ages to grow and men's hair was only ever short in the C20th and the army (lice) while sailors wore their down their back covered in tar. (Personally, I'd discourage that.)

Clothes are basically the same for girls and boys. If you want to discourage cross dressing little skirts and ankle socks are nice and cold this time of year. Tights drop their crotches to the knee within 5 mins. (I was a little girl in the early 70s and had lovely purple legs during the colder months, so know of what I speak.) They're also cheap snd cheerful at the supermarket and will be grown out if soon.

Enforce hard gender stereotypes so he gets a proper taste of the downside of being a girl because this is what all this gender woo is about. When he complains explain that he was born a boy and that means his reproductive potential is one thing and not another. That doesn't mean anything about what he wears, what he likes to play with or what he wants as a job. It's the same as the amount of pigment in his skin or how tall he is.

He's 11 and is old enough to start thinking about things. If he was 3 just get him a skirt like I did. He'll learn but I think that he needs to explain himself as kids absorb rules that actually make no sense.

Have fun!

If anyone asks just say that he's exploring his feminine side. Steer well clear of the Trans brigade as they're fucking evil.

Exactly! It's solely regressive stereotypes and misogyny.

I can tell you that as a parent dealing with this, the comments from posters on here are really nasty.
I have stopped posting on here about it. The responses at times have been vitriolic.
I don't disagree with anything that you have said, but the agressive way that you say
'it isn't a difficult topic' in itself is a dig at anyone who finds it hard.

@Cccc412 try and show him the CBBC show Style it Out, on iPlayer, there is a boy Andre who is 11 but wears dresses and make up but they do call him he and he is a boy who just very well wears what he wants.

First glimpse I thought it was a girl being called He and my 8yo was the one who called out the discrepancy to me, but did some googling and seems it's a boy who knows clothes are for everyone...

My DC has a gender fluid friend. They're all aged 12-13. Sometimes the child 'presents' as male (as in dresses in a stereotypical male way), sometimes as female. They have longish hair but AFAIK don't have extensions. Sometimes they wear make up, sometimes they don't.
Amongst the friendship group, nobody is bothered. The friend uses a unisex shortening of their name and school have logged to call them that. School also are satisfied that as long as the uniform is worn they can wear trousers or skirts.
With regards to PE, toilets, changing for PE, the child is grouped as per their biological sex. Any bullying is addressed and dealt with very quickly.

I don't know that this child has SEN but I think they are currently being assessed as they struggle in certain situations, and apparently with some school work.

When I have met the child I have found them to be polite, shy, and a bit socially awkward.

I think teenage years are difficult for everyone. There's pressure academically, your hormones are raging, you feel institutionalised by school, and if you have bullies in the mix, it makes things worse. If you then add SEN then it's a case of latching onto anything that you feel you have control over, and things that bring comfort.

In short, as PPs have said, make use of the SEN support at school, keep dialogue open with your DS and find a compromise for now that will allow him to express himself with minimal chance of bullying.