Aibu to not let him dress like a girl?

[Cccc412]

Lo is 11 and has ASD (not sure if that's relevant). He's told me he is trans, wants me to buy him dresses, make up, hair extensions etc. This is the first time he has come out and said it although he has made comments about girls clothing being better etc over the past year so I had a feeling this was coming. Not sure how to approach this. My worry is if I do allow him to dress like a girl he will get picked on, he already struggles socially and has been bullied in the past. Also if this is just a phase and he changes his mind, people will not forget and he will have to live with that. Also he will be starting secondary school in September which will be a really tough transition for him. With his ASD he tends to become fixated/obsessed with a topic for months but then it's forgotten about and hes onto the next thing so wondering is this just the latest obsession. Just wondering what others would do if their 11 year old told them they where trans or if anyone else has been in this situation? Aibu to not let him dress as a girl?

If not wanting to poison, sterilise and mutilate children makes me transphobic then yes, I am.

My son would wear Disney dress up all the time, two older sisters that was fine.

My grandson (9) says he wants to be a girl, I've said he can dress up and wear dresses, wigs, but he will be a boy doing these things and that's ok.

He said when he is older he can get boobs, I said he can, but he will still be a boy with boobs.

I think let him wear what he wants, but reiterate he will always be a boy, no matter what he wears or what his does to himself.

Agree with first poster.

My child with autism (F to M) let me know aged 10 they were trans, we explored what that meant, he could wear clothes that were 'boy clothes' and do any thing a boy could, he didnt need to be one. He was adamant that he didn't want to be one, he WAS one and his outside body didn't match.
After a year of doing nothing apart from talking, he was still adamant. He showed all 'signs' expected with trans growing up (only male friends from an early age, saying he was a boy from very young, as a few examples)
He's 16 now and he's so much a boy, if anyone meets him they never know he was born female.. He has struggled a little in school but 99% of his peers have been accepting and he has a very large friendship group (after not having one and struggling in primary).

No matter what we would have done it would not have changed how he felt or his decision changing his gender as an adult. And I know I'd prefer a trans child rather then a dead one (and I say this as a mother of a child with a life limiting condition who will die young)

As a side note - there seems to be a connection with autism and being trans, a high percent of autistic people are trans.
To my son it made no difference when I told him this ~ he still explained that even if it was his autism making him trans it was still making him feel the way he felt.

Cross dressing is a fetish though. It's about getting a (sexual) thrill from dressing as the opposite sex. It is not the same as thinking you are the opposite sex.

Forgot to say that my young relative is autistic, not sure about their partner. Until my relative transitioned I knew very little about this subject. I then researched it carefully and I am sad that they fell into the hands of the Tavistock. Time to Think is a good exploration of a medical scandal.

OP, Aibu mumsnet is the WOrSRT place to post for advice on this topic. (Minus the FWR board) .

@Cccc412 what is “dressing like a girl”? When I was an 11 year old girl I wore jeans and T-shirts. I didn’t own make up, my hair was tied back and my main hobbies were cooking, guides, reading, tennis and cycling around with my friends.

I’d remind your son that there are many ways to be a boy and he can be whatever kind of boy he wants. But he is a boy. I’d also talk about gender stereotypes and point out people in his life who don’t fit them (I’m sure there are plenty!).

Almost every child and adult I know irl who is trans is also ASD. It’s no coincidence. I think it’s so damaging to gas light children by saying “yes, you can be a girl if you want to” when they can’t. So much kinder to help them accept their bodies and express themselves however they like.

I would say that although I don’t think it’s a big deal for an 11 year old boy to wear dresses etc, it will stay with him and children will remember as they grow up. And whichever poster suggested getting him girls pants - I think that’s a bit weird. Really weird actually. And gives a secretive air to it all.

I know a boy who has been living as a girl for a few years now (primary age). It’s going to be SO hard for her to stop “being a boy” if she wants to. But puberty is looming and she’s going to look less like a boy each year!

Anyway. I just think it’s ok to be honest and vital to reiterate that girls are not one homogenous mass of make up wearing, high heel tottering, long haired people. Especially at 11!

should be encouraged to behave as a boy

what does this mean??

Argh, I know a girl living as a boy! Not the other way around….

I somewhat agree with this.
Gender questions are prevelant in the ASD community. Its incredibly difficult though for a clinician, never mind a parent, to determine (or even attempt to determine, whilst navigating the tedious 'you're a TERF' brigade) if its actually part of the condition, rather than an aspect of identity.

I think also regardless of what sex he was born some of the stuff like hair extensions are not age appropriate so say you are too young but you can have X at X age.
I do worry with autistic children that if they feel they don’t fit in they assume it’s because they are confused about their gender. They may be of course but they may not be too. It’s difficult for all teens at that age.

OP, Aibu mumsnet is the WOrSRT place to post for advice on this topic. (Minus the FWR board)

I agree AIBU can be a spiteful and biased place sometimes but in this case I think the advice is pretty good and the arguments mostly balanced. Any extreme views are being challenged

You have the protection of the new government guidance released in December that you can hide behind. This effectively says, no pronoun changes at primary and only in exceptional circumstances at secondary, no access to sports (at secondary) or spaces for the non-bio sex, third spaces can be offered.

I would not make a big deal of him buying and wearing a few items, or having room decor.

My own autistic son went through similar aged about 15. We bought him a pink t shirt and a T shirt with an anime girl on, he had a plain raspberry pink bedding set, he occasionally wore a small girly hair slide in his long hair. He's 20 now and happy to be a not-stereotypically-masculine guy, he still has long hair but doesn't wear anything "girly" and his pink bedding is just part of the regular rotation in his room, it's not special to him now.

I'm autistic too. Autistic people are not immune from having misogynistic beliefs. I honestly don't know why you think they are. Though granted he doesn't have huge experience in life, but he is picking up these beliefs from somewhere.

Pink dressing gowns and fluffy pillows. Is that what being a girl is?

Yet considering they are a tiny minority, don’t we hear about them a little too much?

Well i'd wonder what social media he was watching and who was grooming him..because a child doesn't think they are trans just because they like 'girlie' things. Tiktok is the main culprit for this, the algorithms are absolutely a nightmare. Just have a watch of some of the videos aimed at kids telling them they must be trans. Heartbreaking. So stop him watching that shit for a start, if you are. Also, tell him that no one is born in the wrong body, he can wear as many sparkly dresses as he likes, he is still a boy.

I'd say no to hair extensions and make up....I wouldn't allow any 11 year old to wear extensions and make up.

I'd probably let him wear what he wants at home but tell him that the outside world is cruel and that by wearing traditionally female clothing, he may struggle more to make friends or be a target for teasing. Also, if it is a phase and he eventually forgets about this, he will forever be known for it amongst his peers.

No it's the BEST place to post because it is full of wise and sage advice. (Despite the Gender Ideologists trying to muddy the waters)

I feel for you op, the bullying would worry me too. Im not sure how me and dh would feel if ds wanted to wear girls clothes and i can understand why you are worried.

So if gender is based on false stereotypes (which you a sophisticated, neurotypical adult can of course see, but those rigidly thinking autistic children cannot) why does this child need to discover ‘himself’ with moderate rather than “drastic” changes? What does that mean exactly? - Drastic? So a pink hue to his sweater is ok, but a skirt is not? What clothes are acceptable to you in what contexts?
He can have sex with men, but not dress as a girl? Who set the rules? You? And what are they based on?

That’s right. It’s about opening his mind to the fact that you can overlay so many aspects of life ( style, colour, hobbies) you like or enjoy onto your own gender and make it part of your gender without the need to abandon it. Some people clearly want to actually change gender; but at 11 I think you have to seriously explore the possibility that he just needs support with the former, and I think it’s important to do that in a way that doesn’t send the message to others that it’s the latter or he may find the momentum to push him in that direction escalates. There are a very few careers and styles of clothing that don’t cross gender well. I’ve seen a few men modelling women’s lingerie which didn’t exactly make me feel like buying that particular bra and which I actually didn’t like because I felt that rather than promoting a breakdown of stereotypes, it ( probably inadvertently) actually took the piss . But broadly speaking , there isn’t that much a male can’t embrace: househusband, fashion designer, florist … I’d let him fully explore ways of embracing what he loves AND his gender before considering too seriously whether it’s the gender itself he has an issue with. And I’m sure a number of people do. Fwiw I don’t think he’s a misogynist as suggested upthread. It’s a bit of pubertal “grass is greener” at most. But I think he probably genuinely quite likes some traditionally girly things. And why not? There are lots of males weaving those threads into their identity and I think he needs to see a bit more of that. I’d try for now, though, to do it in a way that still reaffirms his gender. Brands like super dry make obviously male t shirts, hoodies etc but in glorious shades of pink, coral, watermelon ..,

Exactly! This is exactly what's wrong with the world and how we're approaching this topic with impressionable kids.

My favourite pjs were my teenage mutant ninja turtles ones at this age, almost certainly from the 'boys' section. I also had thunderbirds and turtles stationary and got a bit teased as they were for 'boys'. I had my hair like a boy for a while too. I'm a married, heterosexual adult now who enjoys being girly and dressing girly but is also very happy to watch football or an action film with my dh. I do wonder if I'd had a histrionic parent who latched on to the fact that I was a tomboy and made a massive thing of it how different my life might be especially in current times.....

My 9 year old daughter went through this from the age of about 3 until 7. She started off just saying she wanted to be a boy and wearing boys clothes so we just bought her what clothes she felt most comfortable in etc during I'd say year 2&3 at school it peaked. She didn't use the girls bathrooms, and didn't call herself by her female name, opted for a boys name and wanted everyone to call her this in school ( but not at home ) it was a difficult time mainly because I just worried so much about the stigma and how she was being perceived by her peers and their parents. The school were and still are fantastic. The most important thing to us is that she was our child and we wanted to make her feel as safe and happy as possible. The fact your son is able to speak to you and explain his feelings is incredible and shows how brave they are. Some children don't feel they are able to do this. Ultimately towards the end of year 3 she started wanting to be referred to her given name again and didn't mind being called a girl. Now she wears a lot more feminine clothing, calls herself a girl and is proud of that. Who knows if she will explore another identity again, but we just continuously make her aware that she's supported and safe at home and can speak with us about everything. It's such a hard thing to navigate and there isn't really a strict right or wrong way of doing it, just be subtle with the changes and allow them to explore what makes them feel most comfortable. We always asked if our daughter wanted to be called a boy or not ( which was hard for us, it was almost like a grieving of the child you did have ) however she didn't want this just wanted to be nothing specific, no labels. If you don't allow it it will become more of a thing and potentially make it a bigger issue then it ever was going to be. Speak with the school and have a look online for some local charities that can give you support. My dms are always open if you needed a chat xx

Oh yes, those “gender ideologists” who think children should be allowed to express themselves regardless of gender, and don’t think it’s ok to tell a child he has to “behave like a boy”. Such “ideologists” they are .

WTF is a “gender ideologist” anyway? Thats a dog whistle term made up to undermine trans experience.

Anyway I don’t have the time for this today, it’s every bloody day at the minute on mumsnet- several threads, everywhere, not just on the FWR board, but all over AIBU. If you are not trans, close to someone trans, have no really knowledge and understanding of trans issues, how about talking about something else for a bloody change.