Male born person wins women’s golf tournament and is now “worried about his safety” - interviewed by GMB (Title edited by MNHQ)

[HermioneKipper]

Why the hell are GMB gaslighting women with this stuff?

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1749329378352275568

This is an enormous male-bodied person - even larger than the interviewing man!

Post edited by MNHQ

I don’t think the thread should be deleted as discussion is valid. However I also don’t believe that there isn’t deliberate misgendering of an actual person happening here.

Your opinion is valid. As is mine. As is that of the golfer who this discussion is based on. I just think we should be able to express our opinions without being deliberately hateful. On all sides.

Calling men, men and using male pronouns for a man is not rude and nasty. It's reality. A reality that is very important for women to uphold when these same men are shitting on us from a great height.

Just because we've been gaslit and propagandised to internalise that calling a man he is a terrible thing to do doesn't mean it is. That's just how they want us to feel in order to prevent us adequately fighting back.

I have a bridge I can sell you…

While they’re not the strong fit man they were before, they still have advantages over women.
Men get that advantage at puberty as they grow and through socialisation. It’s why we have women’s categories. No amount of transition intervention makes them shrink or changes the stability of their hips, their limb ratio etc.

Can I ask, when you say ‘dripping with hate’ which bits do you mean? I see anger, and uncompromising language. I don’t see hate. To me, saying ‘That transwoman has male advantage, he’s a cheat’, is not hate. It’s clear language.

I will never ever personally be pushed into pretending a very obvious bloke is anything other than that.

Id love just someone to answer “What is a woman?”. I feel if we had an answer to that that isn’t the biological definition and isn’t a circular argument (“A woman is someone who says they’re a woman”) I’d be more open to understanding the trans ideology. I’ve been asking 10 years and never had an answer.

God god transphobes are boring.

I know, right? We could all be doing something better with our time like cheating other people in sport. I guess that's more exciting.

IKR - why aren’t these women just staying quiet and knitting or asking about laundry or something. Fucking bitches actually giving a shit about rampant misogyny, SNOOZE!!

if you have an issue with individual posts, report them.

Misgendering isn't illegal. Wishing "terfs to die in a fat fire" apparently equally not.

And look, there is at least one post in this thread that says "cutting off a penis doesn't make that person a woman" (paraphrased). There is STILL an assumption on many people's part that trans women, or trans identified males, all have surgery. This is a misconception that, when pointed out, leads to TRAs screeching "you're obsessed with our genitals". But it is a legitimate worry, especially of women and the parents of girls and young women in particular, that people with a penis shouldn't be around their half- or unclothed girls. If their assumption is "oh they're trans, no penis" - then they need to be informed. And only by leaving discussions like this in the general mainstream board (the one with all the traffic) are some of those people going to get the message.

Alongside the lesson about how women/girls are losing out on team and podium places, scholarships and prize money. Not to mention the lack of privacy and dignity.

And also the "wah, they want trans women banned from sport" needs to be countered. If you are a man play in the men's competition. If you are a woman play in the woman's competition. If you are a trans woman play in the men's or campaign for trans women's categories. If you are a trans man - difficult. If you're taking testosterone? play in the men's or campaign for trans men's categories. It should be noted that women campaigned long and hard for their own categories. That thing with the Boston marathon is within living memory, FFS. I would have thought trans women, if they think they are women, would show a bit of sisterly solidarity. Knowing how it is to be most marginalised and all that.

Absolutely agree they shouldn’t have ever been allowed in women’s sports. Absolutely don’t agree they should be receiving any kind of death threats or hate. By all means voice your displeasure in him being allowed to play in a woman’s tournament but take it up with the people that decided it was ok. Directing hate at anyone is not ok.

I don’t disagree that the issues in women’s sports are huge and beer to be tackled urgently. I just don’t see why we can’t tackle these issues without being deliberately hurtful and disregarding the feelings of others. I don’t agree with men competing in women’s sports at all and I will fight against this in any way I can as I feel it’s unfair. But I think that can be achieved while still being respectful of others.

I take huge offence at trans women referring to ma as a ‘terf’. But how can I expect someone else to be respectful of my feelings if I don’t care about theirs. We’re all people at the end of the day.

I made the penis comment based on the fact the golfer in questioned claimed if a man has surgery then he no longer poses a threat or and advantage. I’m assuming he meant bottom surgery

I hate to tell you but not wanting males in female sports or refuges is pretty TERFy. That makes you a TERF.

Reading that tweet… other than using ‘preferred pronouns’ (which adds to the overall rhetorical effect), it feels pretty unsupportive of this golfer.

The first sentence is that the transgender golfer ‘says she fears for her safety’. Not ‘fears for her safety’ but ‘says’ it. Thats not the same thing and will be deliberate.

Thats followed up with the information that the triggering event was winning a place on a tour designed to promote growth opportunities for female players. This is not a female player (as the first word in the sentence makes clear) so the sentence is really saying ‘biologically male golfer claims they are unsafe after taking opportunities away from female golfers’.

The next sentence amplifies this by explaining that there are accusations that ‘she has an unfair advantage’ and the reasons given is ‘she can hit a ball further than a female born player’. It doesn’t outright say ‘because “she” is male’ but may as well do.

I do agree that it is depressing how many people are quite happy to give away opportunities for female players in the name of ‘kindness’ (to males who say they’re women).

Why should you care about theirs when they don’t care about yours or any woman’s feelings?

Im done pandering and simpering towards men. I’ve spent nearly 40 years being told that’s what I have to do in order to keep them on side. Fuck that.

Why are you so worried about the feelings of men who deliberately do things that cause harm to women - such as this man?

Do you worry about disrespecting the feelings of all men who do harm to women or just the ones who have a special identity?

Serious question because I can't fathom why his feelings matter to you so much given you seem to accept he is a man doing something cruel and wrong to women.

sorry, i worded that wrong. I didn't mean that you personally might think that. But i think that it needs to be known more widely. Because a lot of people (despite all the legging and bodycon dress photos that appear in the papers and online) a lot of people simply assume that if someone says they are a trans woman, they have had surgery. (and have a GRC but that is a whole other kettle of fish)

I firmly believe we should all strive to live our best lives. I refuse to believe that anyone who is shitting on women's sport like this sincerely wishes that. They wish THEMSELF to be living their best live, and sod the rest. I would like a show of good faith from trans women (who i have defended vehemently in the past, and will continue to do so under a lot of circumstances) that they are women, understand our struggle to win our own rights and spaces, and to campaign for their own. Then i will believe they are sincere about being a woman.

This golfer is basically saying "yeah, i prob do have an advantage, lolz, but that's not stopping me look at all my luvly money"

It's only "gaslighting" if it makes you doubt the truth. NO ONE doubts that this is a man.

Why should it be deleted?

Do you think cheating is acceptable if it’s done by someone who claims they’re transgender?

I hate all MEN who openly cheat especially as it’s nearly always women who are fucked over by cheating men.

Do you honestly believe that these men taking part and winning women’s sporting events are genuinely Trans, because I don’t.

It is really awful isn't it. We are just being thrown under the bus. A woman has just lost out on a record, sponsorship opportunities, and the chance to inspire girls who would otherwise not enter this male dominated sport. Yet GMB focus on him? And talk about his hurt feelings. Awful.

The denial is strong.

It’s amazing how effective the TERFs are evil people who want to harm poor trans people online messaging has been in ensuring that people don’t actually listen to what people challenging the TRA agenda are actually saying. So many people who simply don’t understand that their own position is aligned with the objectors not the activists.

It’s all divide and conquer. Hide the fact that the vast majority of people think biological sex matters in certain circumstances : sports, refuges, dignity in hospital wards or prison placements, and so on. Have them violently agreeing with each other but think they’re fighting a ‘culture war’. Just bullshit.

You would be hard put not to misgender him if you met him in a coffee shop wouldn’t you . That’s probably another thing he wouldn’t understand.

Deliberately misgendering a person is wrong

Misgendering is a nonsense concept. I've never used pronouns in relation to 'gender'.

It correctly sexing.

I don’t disagree with anything that you are saying. There are huge issues that need to be resolved. Women need to feel safe, trans women also need to feel safe and that doesn’t need to happen by disregarding women’s feelings. But I also believe that the vast majority of trans women don’t want to hurt anyone and don’t deserve to be spoken about without any thought to their feelings.

Misgendering may not be illegal but if you can choose not to hurt someone why on earth would you. And that goes for the nastiness on the trans side too.

(as an aside: I'm not terfy because i don't want trans women in women's sports. If they're not having testosterone, I'm happy for trans men to be in women's sports, and generally in women's spaces. I am therefore trans inclusive)

I very much doubt he had received death threata from any women. It's not really our MO is it? Likely from men, not women. I'd quite like to see these death threats. I wonder if they are on the same scale as JK Rowling? Unlikely.