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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to lose my only friend over my beliefs

249 replies

SilverBranchGoldenPears · 21/01/2024 12:47

I will keep this very short.
I have one friend where I live- relatively new. I’m far from home. No others on the horizon- I know I need to find more but it’s a struggle. I’m GC and I know when they find out they will not speak to me again. I will not and cannot lie about my feelings on this. Currently she is trying to probe. I feel very sad about it as I don’t care what she thinks, I just want to be her friend. I think people can have different beliefs and get on.
How do I go about it? Should I start the conversation now and accept the consequences?
Should I avoid it as long as I can? and if so how?

I‘m not sure what exactly I’m asking but I am just sad about it. Has anyone else been in this situation? Thanks!

AIBU - don’t be sad
YANBU - it is sad and it’s ok to be sad

OP posts:
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43ontherocksporfavor · 21/01/2024 13:56

Do t think I’ve ever discussed the subject with any friend. Why is it so important to your friend? Have they changed gender?

MyOrganisationIsCaptured · 21/01/2024 13:56

I had the same. Very good friend of many many years, I thought we knew each other intimately, up to then I had never got something wrong when it comes to predicting what she would think. We just used to laugh and laugh about stuff, on the same page for everything.

I was talking about that man who was advertising tampons (can't remember his name now) and I did a little impression of him and laughed about what he thinks women must be like (so I did a camp man, basically). She was HORRIFIED and said I was a bigoted TERF and she walked out. On her way out she turned and said, "some people are born in the wrong body and I believe that and you should too." And I haven't seen her since.

Heartbroken. I'm still heartbroken.

TheShellBeach · 21/01/2024 13:57

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 13:53

I think people can have different beliefs and still get on, but I'd struggle to be friends with someone GC because I've seen how nasty and dehumanising their beliefs towards trans people can be. If someone's bigoted towards an entire minority group that's more than just an "agree to disagree" in my book, that's a hardline no to friendship. This especially applies if they have trans friends or family, of course they're not going to want to prioritise a friendship with you over them.

Being GC does not equate to bigotry.

ColleenDonaghy · 21/01/2024 13:57

Ultimately it will depend on how important this issue is to her. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be friends with someone who was racist, sexist or homophobic. If she feels the same about your GC views then it will change how she feels about you and the friendship will be over.

If the issue isn't as important to her, then perhaps you can agree to disagree.

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 13:57

If you're genuinely worried you'll lose a friendship over your beliefs perhaps that should be a wake up call as to how unpleasant and extreme they appear to people outside of the GC echo chamber.

SpidersAreShitheads · 21/01/2024 13:58

I think it's healthy to try and avoid being in an echo chamber, and of course, your views don't have to entirely accord with those of your friends.

But as PP have said, there are some issues which are so important it becomes really difficult to be friends with people who feel differently.

I'm GC. That doesn't mean I don't believe that people should conform to gender stereotypes. Biological men can wear dresses, make-up and express themselves in the way that they feel the most comfortable. Same for biological women. Gender non-conforming people aren't anything new - in the 80s (when I grew up), it didn't really seem like such an issue to challenge gender stereotypes - and it feels as if we've regressed from that. No one should feel boxed in by their biological sex in terms of how they want to express their identity.

The reason that GC views are important to me is because it protects women. We are still such a very long way from achieving equality that when a trans woman (ie/a biological man) claims womanhood purely based on their inner feelings, not biology, and then is chosen as a representative for womanhood, we're denied yet another opportunity. We lose yet another chance to be heard. Trans women have not experienced the same things as women, they don't have the same biological disadvantages, and they don't have the same vulnerabilities. Their life experiences may have been difficult, but they're male experiences and very difference to what any woman will have gone through. Any ongoing difficulties they have will be generally relating to their trans identity and won't bear any resemblance to the difficulties women face.

If a trans women is a sex offender and allowed into private spaces, women are put at risk. unfortunately there have already been multiple cases of trans women raping and sexually assaulting biological women in spaces that were supposed to be excluding men - toilets, hospital, prison.

There are very good reasons why biological men are excluded from spaces. And now, women are supposed to allow fully intact males with penises into women-only spaces and just assume that they're safe? And even if they are safe, it's also about female preferences. Women who have experienced trauma or have religious beliefs are now excluded from entering those spaces because of the presence of a male body. Women are being told at rape crisis centres that they have to accept a male-bodied rape counsellor. 1:1 counselling in a small room with a biological male - after you've just been raped by a man. Jesus fucking Christ.

GC beliefs mean believing that women deserve the rights that the law provides them. We SHOULD be able to co-exist peacefully with the trans community and we SHOULD be allies. But while trans women are claiming women's rights for their own, trying to enter women's sports, and don't care about the rights of women, they're no allies.

And people who are on board with the TWAW theory are effectively saying that women's rights don't matter. And that's the problem. If you don't believe that women's rights matter, then it's going to be hard to be friends.

I have a very close gay (male) friend of mine who is vocally very supportive of the trans community - and yet I know for a fact he wouldn't ever consider a relationship with a trans man, even after surgery. So he's being deeply hypocritical but can't actually say otherwise or else he'll be ostracised by his own community. It has now affected our relationship because him and DP had a row about women's rights - and my friend basically said that they don't matter, and women don't have anywhere near the same problems as gay men or trans women. I don't really know how I'm going to continue being good friends with someone who fully expects me to support the gay community (and I do) but then won't extend the same care and consideration to women.

Hankunamatata · 21/01/2024 13:59

Couldn't tell you where most friends stand on it tbh. Not a topic we discuss

TheShellBeach · 21/01/2024 14:00

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 13:57

If you're genuinely worried you'll lose a friendship over your beliefs perhaps that should be a wake up call as to how unpleasant and extreme they appear to people outside of the GC echo chamber.

I think the OP meant that her friend's beliefs were abhorrent to her, not the other way round.

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 14:01

This reply has been deleted

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/01/2024 14:01

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 21/01/2024 12:50

I think I’d say to her when she raises it - “I don’t think we agree on this issue, but I’d really prefer not to discuss it as I value our friendship”If she’s a good friend she’ll understand.

Perfect - and also works for other areas of disagreement

TheShellBeach · 21/01/2024 14:01

I think we have a plopper here.

ColleenDonaghy · 21/01/2024 14:01

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 13:57

If you're genuinely worried you'll lose a friendship over your beliefs perhaps that should be a wake up call as to how unpleasant and extreme they appear to people outside of the GC echo chamber.

Well quite.

Nonewclothes2024 · 21/01/2024 14:01

ThreePointOneFourOneFiveNine · 21/01/2024 12:49

What does GC stand for?

Gender critical

ExtremelyJoyous · 21/01/2024 14:01

I think if she were to dump you as a friend then she isn’t a very good friend in the first place.

There are some things I just don’t discuss with certain friends because I know we don’t agree and that’s fine imo.

fedupandstuck · 21/01/2024 14:03

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 13:57

If you're genuinely worried you'll lose a friendship over your beliefs perhaps that should be a wake up call as to how unpleasant and extreme they appear to people outside of the GC echo chamber.

Or..perhaps it's that people with beliefs that run counter to the truth are intolerant and unpleasant to people who don't go along with those beliefs? Just a thought.

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 14:03

TheShellBeach · 21/01/2024 14:00

I think the OP meant that her friend's beliefs were abhorrent to her, not the other way round.

OP said "I know when they find out they'll not speak to me again" so it's clear she thinks it's her friend who'll want to end the friendship.

ColleenDonaghy · 21/01/2024 14:03

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/01/2024 14:01

Perfect - and also works for other areas of disagreement

Not all of them - giving that in response to "wasn't slavery awful" or "do you think women should have the vote" isn't going to go well is it. Depends on the strengths of the friend's views.

Wadermellone · 21/01/2024 14:03

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No it’s not.

I have never met anyone who is GC that thinks trans adults people shouldn’t be allowed to transition and present as the opposite sex. Or that they shouldn’t be denied medical care. Or that they are all perverts.

I think you may not know what you are speaking about. But if you could give some examples, it might help.

dapsnotplimsolls · 21/01/2024 14:04

The next time she starts 'probing' (eww), just say you think it's best not to discuss it.

WhimsicalMoth · 21/01/2024 14:04

Instead of saying we are GC, shall we just say "we have normal views".
If questioned say "I am fairly sure that our views do not align with this issue.. however it appears that only one of us is backed by scientific evidence" and leave it there.

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 14:04

Wadermellone · 21/01/2024 14:03

No it’s not.

I have never met anyone who is GC that thinks trans adults people shouldn’t be allowed to transition and present as the opposite sex. Or that they shouldn’t be denied medical care. Or that they are all perverts.

I think you may not know what you are speaking about. But if you could give some examples, it might help.

Really? Because such views are common and prominent on FWR.

ickky · 21/01/2024 14:07

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 14:04

Really? Because such views are common and prominent on FWR.

Really? I go on that board a lot and have never seen anything like that.

Could you link to any?

If you see anything like that, please report it, it is not acceptable.

Wadermellone · 21/01/2024 14:07

Seasmoke7 · 21/01/2024 14:04

Really? Because such views are common and prominent on FWR.

As I said, if you could provide some example I am willing to look.

But I don’t know anyone who is GC who thinks that way.

Most go out of their way to explain they don’t care what clothes some wears or how they present. That’s not the issue.

Flickersy · 21/01/2024 14:07

WhimsicalMoth · 21/01/2024 14:04

Instead of saying we are GC, shall we just say "we have normal views".
If questioned say "I am fairly sure that our views do not align with this issue.. however it appears that only one of us is backed by scientific evidence" and leave it there.

What do you think would be gained by OP goading her friend, seriously.

The argument over whether or not GC views are bigoted or not is of no help to the OP, who wants to know how to navigate a delicate social situation. Not to have a debate about who's right.

SalmonWellington · 21/01/2024 14:09

Ok. I'm not GC. Very much not. I am friends with people who are because they respect my views and I respect theirs. I'm also pro choice and anti death penalty - many of my friends are not. Again, we stay friends because we respect each other and recognise that these are complicated issues, not slam dunks.

I'd struggle to be friends with the end of GC where people have just joined a cult that believes everyone who disagrees with them is stupid, ignorant, malevolent or all three. The kind that talk about 'handmaidens' in other words.