To not want to lose my only friend over my beliefs

[SilverBranchGoldenPears]

I will keep this very short.
I have one friend where I live- relatively new. I’m far from home. No others on the horizon- I know I need to find more but it’s a struggle. I’m GC and I know when they find out they will not speak to me again. I will not and cannot lie about my feelings on this. Currently she is trying to probe. I feel very sad about it as I don’t care what she thinks, I just want to be her friend. I think people can have different beliefs and get on.
How do I go about it? Should I start the conversation now and accept the consequences?
Should I avoid it as long as I can? and if so how?

I‘m not sure what exactly I’m asking but I am just sad about it. Has anyone else been in this situation? Thanks!

AIBU - don’t be sad
YANBU - it is sad and it’s ok to be sad

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

“These figures show that women and girls are more vulnerable in mixed changing rooms and there is a danger these places are becoming a magnet for sexual offenders,”

You see the point is 95% of people don't believe that because it is self evidently false.

The OP can perhaps establish some modus vivendi with her friend. I've noticed my Twaw friends online don't raise the issue anymore. So neither do I when engaging with them. This is the silent dance we perform now. Perhaps as pps have suggested , some diplomatic form of words might help.

So how do you decide which men are a threat and which aren’t? What’s your system? How do you keep predators out of women’s spaces?

It doesn't do anything of the kind.

It started from the premise that someone with GC views might have trouble accepting that her friend thought TWAW and vice versa.

That's all.

Well how would we ever know the stats for that when they are being recorded as crimes committed by females? The only stats that exist are those collected informally when a newspaper article clearly shows that the "woman" convincted of a sex crime is clearly a woman who is biologically male.

If would be more bothered if you felt being GC defined you.

I have a variety of friends from various backgrounds and walks of life, and I have no idea how some of them vote, or what their opinion on gender is, or what religion they may or may not be. I like them for their personality, their character and because I enjoy their company.

@SilverBranchGoldenPears going back to the point of your thread... do you have any inkling at all as to why this friend has tried to probe you on this topic?

I disagree with my own husband on this subject but neither of us really worry about it! You’re never going to agree with any friend on everything. It’s really important that people with different views do keep talking to each other otherwise we all end up in bubbles like on social media and end up ‘cancelling’ people who don’t exactly match our own views. And the bubbles drift further any further apart into more extreme and immutable stances

I manage to maintain friendships with Christians, Conservatives, and Muslims, despite being none of these things myself.

The key is probably how lightly one holds ones beliefs and how open minded someone is. If someone is that entrenched that they couldn't associate with someone because of their reasonable beliefs, I'd suggest gently that they probably aren't a very good friend, OP.

As the OP hasn’t been back to comment I’m calling this one out as a fake post design to stir up both sides of this debate. Mumsnet is rife with this stuff.

Yes, you're probably quite correct.

Different views don’t really end friendships, unless it is really offensive, and/ or you are trying to shove it down their throat.
if she directly asks just answer with a non- committing… wouldn’t be for me but each to their own …

Yes, but although I'm clearly biased, I don't think the other side ever come out of them very well so meh really. Maybe it will spark someone to have a rethink.

99% of men are certainly NOT decent. Where on earth did you get that stat from?

I'm sure I read that at least 5% were pedophiles on Surrey Police website- I have tried to find that article but it was years ago so no longer available-.and that's before you get to the regular sex offenses and violence against adult womem stats. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can link to more accurate crime stats but in the meantime I'd LOVE to see where @HalloumiGeller gets their statistics from that 99% of men are decent!

I'm wondering if this is intended to stir up debate/arguments or if the friend is trans and that's why the OP is worried about losing a friend.

I sincerely wish 99% of men were 'decent'. The sexual assault and dv stats would be considerably lower than they unfortunately are.

I'd avoid talking about it. Like having a friend who is a devout Christian or into astrology or something.

What about the woman who was raped on a women’s hospital ward by a TW (and then repeatedly lied to by the hospital as there was supposedly no male bodied patients on the ward). She’s only one woman so is that ok?

There are and have been a number of TW sex offenders imprisoned in the women’s estate. I guess the women are also offenders so it doesn’t matter if their safety and dignity is compromised?

Or what about women’s sports where women have been hurt due to playing against TW with their biological advantages, lost world records or funding through no fault of their own? I guess none of this is important as it’s only happening to a small number of women (for now).

Unless it's something you frequently proselytize about, why should it come up?

• and if it does, why should it be an issue - just something you (and they) have a different opinion about.

It's a shame if the two of you can't just agree to disagree and avoid the topic entirely, but if she's obsessed with it or the type who can't be friendly with anyone who doesn't agree with her on everything, there's nothing to do but accept that she's making the decision to drop the friendship.

You can find other like-minded people, or even just people who are mature enough to look past differing opinions and leave hot-button issues out of casual conversation.

In my experience, the vast majority of ordinary people hold beliefs that have been deemed "transphobic". A proportion of those people will also identify as good trans allies.

There's no point labelling yourself or your friend. If they want to talk or ask questions let them! Be curious about what they think - let them speak first! You don't need to define yourself as anything. If pressed, you can say you don't yet know enough, if you wish, but I guarantee you will both have common ground.

That's why "no debate" was such a big thing. Because genuine discussion is dangerous to illogical belief systems.

I can only speak for myself,.and it's not that it "defines" me as such, but it HAS become something I talk about more with friends due personal experience. For me and one of my best friends, we both have teen daughters who went through a period of identifying as trans. My friends daughter is diagnosed as autistic and my own daughter I would say is ND, being diagnosed with specific learning difficulties although not formally diagnosed as autistic.

So, for me, that's what drew my interest into this topic. My daughter now herself is GC and agrees with me that it was unhelpful gender stereotypes that led her to question her identity. My friends daughter now identifies as NB, but my friend holds the same beliefs as me. She just keeps them to herself to some extent with her daughter.

A lot of women will be like me, who generally wouldn't really care enough about these issues until it directly affects them or their family. There are a lot of confused teens, like my daughter, who are being negatively impacted by this ideology and the LIE that they can change sex. They can't. And it's highly unlikely they'll ever "pass" as the opposite sex, no matter how many off label medications they take, and however many surgeries they put themselves through. That's why I personally "let it define me", through the pain of my own daughter.

I think you're probably right, but it's an interesting debate regardless. I don't tend to discuss my GC views with anyone other than GC people, and it's clear the same is true from TWAW people. At least we're having a conversation.

I'm having the same with a couple of friends. I'm starting to think that it's not worth broaching and that eventually what's happening in the world will affect them and they will see it and want to talk about it. Until something 'peaks' them I'd just wait.

Because biology isn't a 'belief'

It's demonstrable fact