To think there shouldn't be measles outbreaks?

[fatandhappy47]

Surely we shouldn't be having an issue with measles?
Had an email from school (secondary) 'reminding' us to keep kids off with measles, which got me thinking

All my kids band my friends kids of the same age had their MMR (however my youngest did get measles before this)

So why is it an issue in secondary schools of all places? Are people just not vaccinating their kids?

Any anti vaccers I just block

Demonstrates stupidity

Except this is totally not true. There is no evidence of different brain structures in people with autism and there is no duagnost9c test. It's also an arbitrary disorder so we move the goalposts, it's not nd or nt, you can be borderline and many are.
Not to say the mmr links as that is nonsense but so is your idea.

It is thought to be genetic but there are definitely socialisation factors eg some children develop a trauma response that is similar to autism.

Autism is an umbrella term for many social and communication difficulties so is psychological and as yet there is no proof it is biological and it cannot be tested for only assessed by experts by looking at history of behaviour and observing the child.

I agree it's probably genetic and present from birth, the wiring bit is wrong. If that was true we'd have a diagnostic brain scanning test and we don't.

There are few good reasons to freeze a person’s bank account, but simply protesting a mandated vaccine is not a good one. Perhaps if they were planning to finance a terrorist attack, I’d understand.

I don’t wish to get side tracked and start debating governments approaches to vaccine refusal, however coming back to the topic at hand, the reality is that for many people trust was destroyed and once trust is gone, it’s very difficult to get back. So I do blame the pandemic for much of today’s vaccine refusal and that hopefully will be a learning curve for the next time that something like this happens.

Agree. I'm no anti vaxxer, and my posting history will show I've paid hundreds of pounds to give some to my DC that the NHS didn't offer. But it's quite clear that some of the more draconian and/or idiotic policy decisions made wrt vaccines have interfered with trust and the social contract for a number of people, and that this exacerbated issued that already existed.

Their bank accounts weren't frozen for vaccine refusal or protesting vaccine regulations. Those are easily done in compliance with the law. They were sanctioned because they were using their very large HGV's to block major highways and bridges, which is illegal and a form of economic sabotage.

I think it is more clear that some people have made a lot of money out of promoting conspiracy theories and they don't care about the consequences of their grifting.

@MissConductUS

“Canadian Prime Minister blasted a convoy of truckers protesting vaccine mandates as showing “disrespect to science” and championing “hate, abuse and racism”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/justin-trudeau-covid-canada-convoy-b2004245.html

“Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says he now regrets calling members of the "Freedom Convoy" protest a "small fringe minority of people" with "unacceptable views" last year as the convoy made its way to Ottawa.17 Feb 2023”
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-says-he-now-regrets-fringe-views-remark-about-freedom-convoy-protesters-1.6278913#:~:text=Prime%20Minister%20Justin%20Trudeau%20says,made%20its%20way%20to%20Ottawa.

I don’t think it was about the roads. But whatever it was about, it was one of a million things that happened during Covid that destroyed trust in our governments and authority figures. There are consequences to that. Personally, I can differentiate between the Covid vaccine and the MMR, which is really important. But a lot of people can’t.

I think you have taken my use of wiring too literally. As you say there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that it is genetic, in my 20 years of working with autistic students it's fairly common to meet the parents and go "ah ok" although not unilaterally. Being autistic-like as a response to trauma is clearly not the same thing though, but would agree it could cause challenges with diagnosis. I am not a biologist, neurologist or geneticist, but to suggest it is anything other than innate in a person is potentially dangerous as there could be an implication that it's fixable, a choice or can be cured with the right treatment (or conversely caused by external influences like a vaccine). Hence my use of "wiring" - I don't profess to know how it's inside someone.

The freedom convoy protestors deserve zero sympathy.

They were protesting vaccine mandates for cross-border trucking routes. Unvaccinated truckers, of which there were few, were re-assigned to intra-Canada routes. The Canadian government wouldn’t even have been able to remove the mandate if it wanted to, because the US didn’t want unvaccinated people entering the country either.

So we had a small group of truckers and general agitators who shut down major trade routes, occupied part of the capital city for weeks on end while deliberately causing as much of a nuisance to residents as possible. They were also amassing guns. The protest itself was mainly funded by people and groups (many on the far right) from outside of Canada.

If a French-funded group brought the centre of London to a standstill for weeks, blocked the channel crossing and started hoarding weapons, I suspect the UK might do something about it.

Freezing bank accounts was a non-violent means of trying to shut down the protests, and an entirely appropriate response when faced with a foreign-funded protest is deliberately causing millions in economic damage.

they were stopping vaccines getting in to Canadian citizens who were desperate for the vaccine

so i think entirely appropriate

I don’t wish to get side tracked and start debating governments approaches to vaccine refusal,

have you even read the article you posted?

the truckers weren’t simply vaccine refusers

they were preventing vaccines from entering Canada to be given to citizens that did want the vaccine @ManhattanNY

These things are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, one of the worst examples, Andrew Wakefield, long predates Covid 19.

thousands of truckers descended on Ottawa to block roadways.
by all means refuse the vaccine

but don’t prevent it coming in to the country

but neatly missed off by @ManhattanNY

Ok, well we’ll agree to disagree.
Sadly, regardless of any of our opinions on the validity, it hasn’t stopped trust being damaged, and of course I’m not just talking about the truckers in isolation, I’m talking about many things that happened globally during that time frame.
Damaged trust will last a while as well, so we had better do something to promote proven childhood vaccines before the problem worsens further.

just to be clear for anyone joining. @ManhattanNY ‘s statement that the

the truckers had their bank accounts frozen because they were vaccine refusers was INCORRECT

They were told they may have their bank accounts frozen if they did not clear the public highways there were blocking hy their thousands to prevent the vaccine entering the country to citizens that were desperate for it

what are we disagreeing about?

You don’t think the article you posted about the truckers is accurate?

The irony is quite something with the complaints about bank account freezing.

Even ignoring, for a moment, the weeks long harassment of Ottawa residents and those elements of the convoy that were stockpiling weapons and body armour, the principle tactic of the convoy was to ransom the country by blocking trade routes to damage the economy (which successfully halted $2.3bn in trade).

Freezing the bank accounts of those ‘protestors’, to stem the influx of largely foreign money that was funding them, is a fundamentally similar tactic to the one the truckers were employing - i.e., pressuring them by going after their wallet.

It also mainly seems to be non-Canadians who moan about the Government’s response to the convoy.

Guaranteed that, if a protest group in the UK engaged in a weeks-long illegal blockade of the channel tunnel and occupied part of London (blaring their horns at all hours and forcing business to close), while being funded by money from far-right groups in Europe, the majority of British people would support the ‘protestors’ having their bank accounts frozen as a non-violent means of drawing the protest to an end.

Unfortunately, though, in the social media age and when it isn’t happening in your own back yard, people will listen to and parrot stupid claims of ‘authoritarian dictatorship’ rather than actually employing any degree of common sense.

Many people have trouble grasping the concept that civil rights aren't absolute. The right to swing your fist ends where the other person’s nose begins.

@MissConductUS

there is a difference between having the freedoms to refuse a vaccine and protesting peacefully to blocking fellow citizens from having a vaccine that they WANT to have

do you think the latter is acceptable?

Not at all. See my previous comments, this one specifically:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4989072-to-think-there-shouldnt-be-measles-outbreaks?reply=132430524&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share&utm_source=copylink

The truckers were swinging their fists and hit the Canadian economy. It was not a harmless protest.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

If people are prepared to put their child’s life at risk because they lost faith in a different product altogether, it begs the question, are they adult enough to have children? You wouldn’t stop eating peas because cauliflowers were bad!

so why in your first post on the subject

Lost trust in the Covid jab, particularly when truckers started to have bank accounts frozen

so despite thinking the truckers were wrong to prevent the movement of vaccines in to Canada…. you lost faith in the covid jab because the Canadian government threatened to freeze the culprits bank accounts? 😐