Wits end with everything

[Isurrender]

I live up North with my two kids aged 18 and 24. Hubby works away and only home every few months. We have no family.

We have just come through the most horrific financial crisis as a family and have pretty much been left with nothing after a two year court battle. I am 54 and my husband is 60.

My son and I both work full time, but my daughter only works 11 hours a week in her own business which she is building up. I pay for her horse, phone and car tax each month. She did have a part time job but gave it up as she fell out with her friend who worked in the same shop and it was awkward, so now does 11 hours work only.

AIBU to expect help in the house? If I specifically ask her to clean a room she will, but if not she does nothing. I spend my weekends shopping, trying to tidy up and walking our dogs. She would never walk them unless asked. If I leave any washing up I mostly come home to it as she will say it wasn’t her mess. She has washed up three times this week and I’m still hearing about it. I’m really struggling with a bad back but she doesn’t notice. The bathroom floor is piled high in her dirty washing but it waits for me. Neither of them would put on a wash unless asked. Last night I was so tired and my back was agony. I left a bowl full of dishes and stuff on the sides, today she had no work and said she’d do them. She sent me a message at work saying she’d wash everyone else’s stuff up later. She had a lie in and went to her horse. I got home to dog poo all over the path and the same mess I’d left last night. She got home after me, telling me she’d wash up later. I said she should have done it earlier and she said her brother doesn’t wash up often. He’d got home and gone to the gym.

My son doesn’t do much but he works 11.5 hour days. If I want a job doing I have to ask over and over. Our garden is completely overgrown as he won’t do it, despite me practically begging him all summer. No one will empty bins unless I ask and if I don’t drag the dustbins out they don’t get emptied. They will see me go outside to fill coal buckets with a bad back and only do it if I ask.

I have nothing for myself, no time, no money, no outings. When the kitchen bin is full the stuff is left on the side for me to take out. My daughter now leaves makeup all over my nice table on the landing and won’t move it unless I ask. Then it’s back the next day. No one will clean the bathroom. The bathroom bin overflows onto the floor until I empty it. If I mention my daughter’s mess she says all I do is moan. I have asked her to get a second job but she doesn’t want to do any job I suggest. She owes her brother £600.

We went through an awful time and she moved out for 5 months to stay with her boyfriend. I admit I was horrible due to all the pressure but now she throws this at me and I feel guilty for asking for her help because I upset her a lot during the court case.

Should they do equal amounts or should she do more as she barely works? I’m at the end of my tether.

It sounds like you feel you've tried everything. I do agree with what others have said about sitting down as a family - all four of you - and having a conversation. The first step is for you to emphasise that, now they are all grown ups, you are a household of four adults. Therefore, you all have to contribute fairly and equitably, in the ways that make most sense for each of you.

I'd then capture on paper all the things that need to be done for the household. Servicing the debt from the court battle, chores, bills etc.

Then I would present a list of all the things everyone does to contribute to the household. It's complicated as there will be a combination of financial and household work-based contributions and as you've experienced, different people have different ideas about the "exchange rate" between these things. However, just getting it all down on paper will be good.

Then I'd ask them whether they consider a) their own contributions to be fair b) whether they consider other people's contributions to be fair - including yours. This MAY throw up some hard truths about the fact that people are using the excuse of "they don't do their fair share so why should I" to disguise the fact that actually they just need to do more than they would like to do.

You can see if you can take it from there.

But that's a lot of work.

Ultimately what I'd probably do in your position is stop paying for anything for your daughter, since she isn't willing to lift a finger for you. And I'd review your son's financial contributions to the household's working budget, based on market rent, bills etc. If he should be paying more, ask for it. You could put it towards a cleaner etc.

They also both need plans to move out... In the long run.

This. The horse has to go. They have to start supporting themselves.

And you need to start looking after yourself or you’ll implode.

does your husband contribute and what is it costing for him to be away that is a huge part of this as well

the other thing is all of the chores etc is a smokescreen for you to focus on whereas it is the court case that has caused this

Oh and just STOP DOING THEIR LAUNDRY!
it's very simple. STOP IT. Why on earth are you doing these things?!!!

Sorry, just read all the OPs posts. I see the horse isn’t going.

Sorry, you let your son take on debt to help you with court costs but you still pay everything for your dd and have a horse to fund?

Op no harm but your choices here are what's keeping you in this mess. You're being deeply unfair to your children. You need to step up and be the adult here. That means making tough decisions. You're keeping a horse at the expense of your child's financial stability. You're keeping a horse and forcing him to work an incredibly long week to pay for it. It's not ethical op I'm sorry but it's not. No wonder your children are rebelling there's no clear adult in the house. You need to step up. Get yourself counselling or whatever support from pain management clinic or gp or physio you need to build your resilience and then you need to make the tough choices.

Honestly it sounds as though you can't see the wood for the trees. That's completely understandable but worth realising and seeing how you can take a step back and view some of this objectively.

Your son works 6 11.5 hour shifts a week and has taken on 20k debt for your family is that right? If so then no I wouldn't be expecting him to do much in the way of house work, definitely not spending his one day a week off to sort the garden. I wouldn't put anymore on him tbh It sounds like he is doing so much already for the family. If the house has got to the stage that it's just too much, could you maybe hire a cleaner even to do a deep clean to help get it more manageable? Both your children sound great, remember your daughter is barely an adult and she is trying to start her own business which is bringing in some income by the sounds of it. She's messy yes but most 18 year olds are.

What does DH say about this situation?

I am wondering if he is in prison?

I haven't read all the comments but here is how my parents rolled with 3 adult kids:

We all had full time jobs and all paid rent

Bedrooms had to be cleaned every week eg dusting and hoovering and then one of us would do the bathroom, another the kitchen and the third person the lounge. No leaving plates etc in rooms

Take turns to walk the dog and poop scoop the garden each day

In charge of own washing and ironing although would see if anyone else wanted to put theirs in if only a half load etc.

Paid for our own cars and mobiles.

If you dont like it - move out

And they also had a general move out by age 30 rule too 😂

Oh and dinner would be decided the night before and whoever got in first started it (if you didn't want it you made your own or sometimes we'd be working late so might not be all of us)
Thankfully they had a dishwasher which my mum would load as she was anal about how it went in and dad would unload in the morning before work

Hi, OP -

You sound paralysed by guilt. I know that is really hard, but I hope you know that for the sake of your DC as well as yourself it is best to put it behind you.

Small steps: yes, your DS works very long hours and I am sure that is tiring. But at a minimum he can do his own dishes, promptly.

And I completely agree that each adult should do their own laundry, on a rota. If anyone can’t be bothered to remove their clothes for the next person, have a spare laundry basket nearby for dumping them. You can start this immediately. Use any system of laundry bins that makes sense for your family, and be strong!

I agree that DS was very nice to shoulder the burden of the loan for you. But what are the payments? I don’t think DC should pay market rent but if the payments are far below market rent then yes, he should top them up.

The principle is that three adults are sharing a house. You want to excuse DS some chores on the grounds of his long working hours and I get that. But then his financial contribution should be proportionate. Make sure it is.

And yes, he can certainly sort the garden or pay someone to do it. Fewer chores, once he is paying fairly, because of his hours. Not no chores.

Your DD is the real problem. I love the idealism of 18 year olds but nothing about her attitude as you have described it suggests she is on the verge of a great business success. She needs to make some sort of contribution to the household. Less, because she is younger, in that not-quite-adult space. If she cannot manage a financial one then she needs to make a practical one. Aside from cleaning up promptly after herself, she can work out with you how to contribute.

The horse: I know it is part of the family but as PP have said, it really needs to be loaned to someone who will cherish it until you’re dug out of this financial pit. For £220/mo you could have a weekly cleaner!

These are the small steps. The big problem is that your DC are not treating you with respect. We don’t know the back story. But if some of the immediate burdens were relieved you could probably think more clearly. Best wishes

Both your children sound great, remember your daughter is barely an adult and she is trying to start her own business which is bringing in some income by the sounds of it. She's messy yes but most 18 year olds are.

Never proactively does any chores despite knowing her mum is sinking under the weight of it all, only works 11 hours a week but says she has no time to help with chores, regularly boxes her mum in despite knowing what a pain it is, won't walk the dog without a fight about it, leaves dog shit for her mum (with a bad back and a full time job) to clear up...

And this: "I asked daughter to clear the mess she left and tidy outside. I asked her for six weeks to pick up a blanket she’d thrown out of her car. I eventually removed it."

This isn't normal 18 year old behaviour.

Where on earth is your husband in this scenario? What is his contribution, either to the family or the household?

He fucked their financial future up and now doesn't have to deal with the day to day consequences. I would be so beyond livid I couldn't stay with him.

’Any pet we have through our door has a home for life and I would never give one up.’…..’I told her to advertise them’ (geckos)🥴

Aye, alright 😄
All sound tedious, will you not downsize and enjoy life? If it was your live-away husband who chose the circumstances that led to court, and your child paying your debts, divorce him. I don’t see the point in the marriage as it is, anyway.

’sell the horse’ just like that, as if it’s a car. NO, you shouldn’t sell the horse, a pet is a responsibility that should be taken seriously. You should tell her at the very least you expect her to pay half towards the bills you’re currently funding (horse, phone etc)

Then give them both a list of jobs that they need to do daily/weekly which will then be their responsibility. There’s 3 adults, all should be helping equally.

Blimey - that's a lot. Yes. Get rid of the horse or loan it out.

Plus your daughter can't have a gym membership or car unless she pays for it.

Not really seeing how you can call your son 'lazy' when he's working a 60 hour week and paying off a £20k loan of yours and you're angry because he won't do the gardening?!?

My grown up kids are not interested in gardening at all - neither is my husband. I do a lot of it, and work 30 hours a week. You could get a cleaner and a gardener for £220 a month ....

Sell an animal but don’t worry, you can just get another? No wonder rescue centres are on their knees. I despair at people like you. Horrible suggestion.

I would guess the OP played some part in the financial issues, she doesn't seem particularly financially astute.

@StarDolphins

Then give them both a list of jobs that they need to do daily/weekly which will then be their responsibility. There’s 3 adults, all should be helping equally.

OP says she has tried this over and over again and they do not do it. They should, but they aren't.

Yet she's continuing to sub her daughter and allowing her to work 11 hours a week but have a horse.

Her daughter needs to work more or move out. It's not ideal at 18, of course. It's very early to move out nowadays.

But thanks to OP's husband, this isn't a normal situation. He fucked it, frankly.

It's unfortunate that everyone else has to pay the price but that's the reality of the situation.

This isn't sustainable.

OP is there a reason you can't downsize?

@StarDolphins having a horse is totally different to having a cat/hamster or even a dog.

What if they have a massive vets bill? I would imagine horse insurance is v.high.

At some point, you have to be realistic.

If you had to cash pensions and policies in to resolve legal matter at 50+ then you've got some serious decisions to make soon regarding horse & home...whether you like it or not, sorry.

I wonder what would happen if you listed the issues (cashflow, time on chores, mental load) and asked them to propose a solution detailing their contributions to make it workable. Maybe a 6 month trial with lodgers paying market rent and not messing the place up is needed unless they can convince you otherwise...they should both be mucking in with chores and paying you board anyway (simply deduct your son's off the running loan tally which aiui you're paying him back for). And if they don't follow through, you need to buy getting in a lodger.

No perfect solutions here, you just need to pick one that's better than now. Good luck.

@whatsitcalledwhen why do you think the court case etc is down to the husband? I think I missed that bit.

@kittensinthekitchen

I would guess the OP played some part in the financial issues, she doesn't seem particularly financially astute.

Fair point, I agree.

Saying the family is broke while the household between them have a horse costing £200 a month, two cars, two adult gym memberships etc is so incredibly out of touch with what is / isn't normal.