Wits end with everything

[Isurrender]

I live up North with my two kids aged 18 and 24. Hubby works away and only home every few months. We have no family.

We have just come through the most horrific financial crisis as a family and have pretty much been left with nothing after a two year court battle. I am 54 and my husband is 60.

My son and I both work full time, but my daughter only works 11 hours a week in her own business which she is building up. I pay for her horse, phone and car tax each month. She did have a part time job but gave it up as she fell out with her friend who worked in the same shop and it was awkward, so now does 11 hours work only.

AIBU to expect help in the house? If I specifically ask her to clean a room she will, but if not she does nothing. I spend my weekends shopping, trying to tidy up and walking our dogs. She would never walk them unless asked. If I leave any washing up I mostly come home to it as she will say it wasn’t her mess. She has washed up three times this week and I’m still hearing about it. I’m really struggling with a bad back but she doesn’t notice. The bathroom floor is piled high in her dirty washing but it waits for me. Neither of them would put on a wash unless asked. Last night I was so tired and my back was agony. I left a bowl full of dishes and stuff on the sides, today she had no work and said she’d do them. She sent me a message at work saying she’d wash everyone else’s stuff up later. She had a lie in and went to her horse. I got home to dog poo all over the path and the same mess I’d left last night. She got home after me, telling me she’d wash up later. I said she should have done it earlier and she said her brother doesn’t wash up often. He’d got home and gone to the gym.

My son doesn’t do much but he works 11.5 hour days. If I want a job doing I have to ask over and over. Our garden is completely overgrown as he won’t do it, despite me practically begging him all summer. No one will empty bins unless I ask and if I don’t drag the dustbins out they don’t get emptied. They will see me go outside to fill coal buckets with a bad back and only do it if I ask.

I have nothing for myself, no time, no money, no outings. When the kitchen bin is full the stuff is left on the side for me to take out. My daughter now leaves makeup all over my nice table on the landing and won’t move it unless I ask. Then it’s back the next day. No one will clean the bathroom. The bathroom bin overflows onto the floor until I empty it. If I mention my daughter’s mess she says all I do is moan. I have asked her to get a second job but she doesn’t want to do any job I suggest. She owes her brother £600.

We went through an awful time and she moved out for 5 months to stay with her boyfriend. I admit I was horrible due to all the pressure but now she throws this at me and I feel guilty for asking for her help because I upset her a lot during the court case.

Should they do equal amounts or should she do more as she barely works? I’m at the end of my tether.

To get to her customers in the business she has set up. Even if she had a regular job how would you suggest she got to that job without a car?

I have told here there are two choices, she either gets an additional job whilst building up her business or she must close her business altogether and take any job. I have told her that if she does not get one I will put an advertisement on fb on her behalf on our local village group so I have left her with that thought.

We have all suffered great trauma and her A Levels were affected. Yes she is a selfish nightmare but she is also my daughter and only 18. I have sat down with her tonight and she has applied for two apprenticeships, both with decent money as a back up plan. She has moved her geckos and this is a start. She knows that she has to bring in more money imminently and now I have to give her chance to show me she has listened.

This is what I would do.

sounds like a productive day. . I hope you maintain your momentum

Great start OP! Regarding the garden - it sounds too big a job for someone who is working long hours. It is the wrong time of year at the moment but is it possible to save up some money for the spring to get a company to blitz it for a couple of days and break the back of the job for you three to follow through. An improved garden would give a great psychological uplift.

I feel like you have a lot of anger about your life probably due to the unfairness of the financial hit and court case. This is really understandable.
You need to be really careful not to focus that anger on your children. They don't sound that lazy just young. It is unfair to expect your daughter to do more chores than your son. Getting harsh and punitive is not going to work (and clearly hasn't so far).
Sit down with your daughter and help here explore career options in a supportive way.
I also think you and your husband need to do this yourselves. Your son can't be shouldering such a massive loan. Your husband and yourself need to make a plan to fix this - even if it is along term one. It's not done resolved and ges paying for years. That's not okay.
Focus your anger on the situation (or your husband if he's not stepping up).

It sounds utterly traumatic for all of you.

The court case sounds like your family were punished for your husband's naivety and from the fact he works away for so long I am guessing he is now working in the UAE or Caymans to recoup income.

It sounds like you previous had a very comfortable to almost lavish lifestyle and the kids are having to recalibrate to this. Your son sounds more mature as he is older but has had to step up in the household. I am not sure on a 60 hour week, where I was also paying a significant loan, I would also want to spend my weekends gardening. He could pay rent in a more convenient place at a lower rate than this.

Your daughter is 18 and needs to get a full time job. You should then calculate a proportionate keep that goes towards the upkeep of the property - cleaner and garden clearance.

I can see you are frustrated and that a lot is falling to you but I am not sure I think this is on your children. At that age, their responsibilities are minimal and I should imagine the emotional fall out if the last few years is hard for you all.

I've clicked on 'see all' op and can see that you're starting to get to grip with things. Well done, that wasn't an easy thing to do.
It's sad that some here see horses as some sort of second-class pet. They wouldn't sell their dog, but a horse is fair game. I understand why you don't subscribe to that view, and quite honestly, if your daughter gets her act together and starts paying for the horse that will release up a lot of money for you.
Your daughter needs to pay her own way - car, fuel, horse and gym if she can afford it. She's 18, so you might make some allowance for her re rent, but it she was just paying her way it would transform your life financially. Aim for a position where she isn't costing you anything as a start?

Housework - you need to sit them down and tell them that this is a household of adults. Adults don't need lists to tell them what to do, they use their eyes and do it. You could say that you won't clear up their mess any more. If you pick something up that belongs to you, you will put it in a black bin bag and throw the bag in their room when you finish tidying. Every single time do it.

Reminding me they have no clean clothes.

Leaving piles of clothes on the bathroom floor.

Leaving a sink full of dishes for me to do when I get in from work.

Not walking the dogs.

Refusing to help in garden.

Not picking up dog poo.

Not cleaning the bathroom.

leaving a load of mess outside for 6 weeks until I cleared it up!!!

Sorry OP! I’m the one complaining and I disagree with you. This is lazy!! Yes they are young but I have a bad back.

You really think it’s unfair to ask my daughter to contribute to more of the housework/dog walking/garden when two other adults are working almost four times the number of hours that she is? Whilst up until now she has refused to do every job I have suggested.

Career option explored last night and jobs applied for.

His decision to take out the loan was based on the fact that he’d have been paying a lot more in rental if we’d had to leave. That would have been permanent where with the loan it will end in three years and we get to stay in our home which is what we all wanted. I also have a loan which ends in three years. Both hard for now but things will get better.
with regards to the garden I was simply asking him to cut the lawn. This was before he even took out the loan. People who work full time still have to cut their lawns. A 24 year old shouldn’t need to rest all night after a day’s work. One hour per week is not a big ask when your food is cooked, clothes washed and you do bare minimum to help.

Tryst me she will be working more. She has been given no choice and us fully grasping what I expect.

Reminding me they have no clean clothes.

You know where the machine is.
Rinse and repeat.

You did quite a lot in one day, OP.

There may be some backlash, it is to be expected. Decide where you will stay strong, eg the laundry, the geckos, the dishes etc. But your DD may need time and help with some of the bigger adjustments. Making progress is the most important thing.

The money spent on the geckos and horse could pay for a gardener. Its not the sale value of these animals but the carrying costs.

I get the sentiment but these are very champagne tastes for a family that is in financial crisis.

@Isurrender was her plan University before all of this? You say it affected her a levels to what extent- that she no longer could do what she wanted and is now in limbo.

there are definitely some areas that now you are 3 adults you need to stay strong, chores etc being one for both of them.

but you also need to remember that potentially this has affected your daughters future an awful lot - your son was already working when this happened but for her it was at a time where it sounds like it cost her a lot. Have you actually discussed this. Apprenticeships sound like a good idea but also does she want to go back to college to try again, is Uni something she still wants but is aware that financially for you it is no longer possible - even though for her it is with the loans etc she would get. Does she feel she needs to stay

I think this thread is actually harsh on someone whose life got completely upended at 17/18

I hardly call a couple of geckos “champagne tastes” We have had the horse 7 years so he won’t be going anywhere. We took him on as our responsibility and he remains so. It’s so sad that so many posters have said “Get rid of it” That’s just an example of today’s throw away society! A very bad example to set.

I’m puzzled over all the financial advice. That is not what my post is about. Clearly says it is about kids not helping.

PLEASE READ MY POST

I DO NOT WANT FINANCIAL ADVICE OR ADVICE ABOUT SELLING OUR HORSE. MY POST CLEARLY STATES IT IS ABOUT AFULT KIDS NOT HELPING.

I actually read alllll your posts and everyone else’s too. You are still complaining about the son’s refusal to deal with the massively overgrown garden . That, to me, given the potential size of the house/grounds and lifestyle you once maintained, is not something that you should expect your children to maintain for you.

This is the problem with mumsnet! So many assumptions are made. Let me clarify. What are you talking about “Lifestyle we once maintained” Wow!! We have not had a holiday abroad since 2013. We have had no UK holiday since 2021 which was three days camping. Stop making assumptions.

Our house is not some grand country manor. It is a terraced cottage and our garden is small. To cut the lawn and sweep round it would take 50 mins/one hour. We are not talking Kew Gardens. Considering my kids have stupidly had pretty much everything done for them and have barely helped with any chores (which is my fault) I do not think it unreasonable to be asked to cut the lawn and pick up the dog poo. So actually you agree that I should wait on them hand and foot and expect no help.

Wow everyone stop making stuff up about my previous lavish lifestyle. You are so far off it’s laughable. Where did I say any of this stuff. People who own horses don’t live in mansions. Most live in ordinary little houses with two jobs to pay for them.

why should my kids not be expected to help? Seems other posters have kids with issues too but think I’m out of order for expecting any help

She never wanted to go to uni. She would hate it. She would never leave her horse or our pets. She had hoped for all A* and got two and a B. So still brilliant grades and I am very proud.

I have given her lots and lots of help and advice and she made the decision to start a small business. I help her a lot with it. What I struggle with is her refusal ti get another job when she is only working 11 hours and owes her brother £600 and offers almost no help in the house, leaves piles of dirty washing strewn everywhere, won’t cook a meal, go shopping, complains about washing her stuff up.

Yes she has had a tough time, we all have, but continuing to allow this is not doing her any favours or teaching her anything. This wasn’t something I did on purpose. Sometimes life is crap but we have to try to move on to better times.

@Isurrender i think you all then need to let go of the financial stuff, your kids may well have more disposable income that’s fine. Come up with a reasonable amount for them both (and it will be different) to pay rent etc and stick to that. It is not their responsibility to cover any shortfalls
Then chores should be done fairly and equally

This wasn’t something I did on purpose. Sometimes life is crap but we have to try to move on to better times.

No, but it was something your husband did on purpose, and your kids’ lives have been turned upside down as a result. Rightly or wrongly, they were used to a very different kind of life, and “sometimes life is crap but we have to try to move on” is a difficult lesson for adults to learn, let alone an 18 year old who has clearly been hugely negatively affected by what’s happened. I’m not saying you should continue to let her away with not contributing but I think it would be helpful to you both if you made an effort to engage with her about how she’s feeling and tackled the resentment she no doubt feels when she’s asked to adjust to this new way of living. If my husband had fucked up so badly that my lifestyle had to change dramatically, I’d be pretty pissed off if he asked me to start doing the household chores that had previously been done by a cleaner, or whatever. I can only imagine that’s amplified when it’s your parental figure who has fucked up and he’s not even around to help. I understand that you’re posting specifically about the chores, but you can’t – or at least shouldn’t – ignore the underlying emotional trauma that’s behind a lot of it. Family counselling would be helpful, I suspect.

No, but it was something your husband did on purpose, and your kids’ lives have been turned upside down as a result. Rightly or wrongly, they were used to a very different kind of life.

I’m astounded that you think my husband has done this on purpose. Who purposely hurts their family? I’m also puzzled with your thoughts on the fact that we were used to a very different kind of life or the fact that the chores were previously done by a cleaner. Seriously where do you get this from??

our last holiday abroad was 2013. We’ve been to Wales every year since. We haven’t had a UK holiday for two years!!

So what’s changed that means the situation is no untenable for you? Why is it that your children not doing chores was okay before the court case but isn’t now? Something has happened that has changed your circumstances, and that has impacted them too.

Your husband didn’t accidentally do whatever it was that he did wrong which resulted in a court case in which he was found at fault. He obviously didn’t intend to cause all this fallout, but nonetheless it was his deliberate actions that have hurt your family.

I apologize. The horse, the landing big enough for a table full of gekkos, and the constant complaints about the garden as well as the details about f your dh’s failed business (multi million dollar market?) appeared to be markers of a fairly affluent lifestyle.

Wow, OP, so your DD has A Level grades of A star, A star B? So in spite of everything going on with het DF, she only didn’t live up to potential in one subject? Her grades are actually very good and considering the circumstances they are bloody impressive.

I am an academic and former admissions tutor at an excellent university, and she just got a lot more interesting to me. I will take your word, mostly, that she would hate uni. But what will such an intelligent young woman do without some kind of further training?

Sadly I do think it is nearly impossible for an 18 yr old, no matter how bright, to succeed as a sole trader. It is great that you are helping her, but I wish she would consider that someone, somewhere might have something to teach her. I stand by what I wrote in my first post: she needs to contribute and as she cannot contribute money she needs to contribute effort. But she has enormous potential and I hope she will realise it.