Wits end with everything

[Isurrender]

I live up North with my two kids aged 18 and 24. Hubby works away and only home every few months. We have no family.

We have just come through the most horrific financial crisis as a family and have pretty much been left with nothing after a two year court battle. I am 54 and my husband is 60.

My son and I both work full time, but my daughter only works 11 hours a week in her own business which she is building up. I pay for her horse, phone and car tax each month. She did have a part time job but gave it up as she fell out with her friend who worked in the same shop and it was awkward, so now does 11 hours work only.

AIBU to expect help in the house? If I specifically ask her to clean a room she will, but if not she does nothing. I spend my weekends shopping, trying to tidy up and walking our dogs. She would never walk them unless asked. If I leave any washing up I mostly come home to it as she will say it wasn’t her mess. She has washed up three times this week and I’m still hearing about it. I’m really struggling with a bad back but she doesn’t notice. The bathroom floor is piled high in her dirty washing but it waits for me. Neither of them would put on a wash unless asked. Last night I was so tired and my back was agony. I left a bowl full of dishes and stuff on the sides, today she had no work and said she’d do them. She sent me a message at work saying she’d wash everyone else’s stuff up later. She had a lie in and went to her horse. I got home to dog poo all over the path and the same mess I’d left last night. She got home after me, telling me she’d wash up later. I said she should have done it earlier and she said her brother doesn’t wash up often. He’d got home and gone to the gym.

My son doesn’t do much but he works 11.5 hour days. If I want a job doing I have to ask over and over. Our garden is completely overgrown as he won’t do it, despite me practically begging him all summer. No one will empty bins unless I ask and if I don’t drag the dustbins out they don’t get emptied. They will see me go outside to fill coal buckets with a bad back and only do it if I ask.

I have nothing for myself, no time, no money, no outings. When the kitchen bin is full the stuff is left on the side for me to take out. My daughter now leaves makeup all over my nice table on the landing and won’t move it unless I ask. Then it’s back the next day. No one will clean the bathroom. The bathroom bin overflows onto the floor until I empty it. If I mention my daughter’s mess she says all I do is moan. I have asked her to get a second job but she doesn’t want to do any job I suggest. She owes her brother £600.

We went through an awful time and she moved out for 5 months to stay with her boyfriend. I admit I was horrible due to all the pressure but now she throws this at me and I feel guilty for asking for her help because I upset her a lot during the court case.

Should they do equal amounts or should she do more as she barely works? I’m at the end of my tether.

Not a martyr, just exhausted, brain dead and stuck in an awful cycle. Been in the housework cycle for years.

I want a life.

I am going to show them the replies. Hard as so many conflicting suggestions about who should do what and how my son must feel resentful. Someone else said my daughter is being treated like a maid. I’m probably more confused now than when I posted.

Do you know I just keep doing it all as mentally my head is shagged and I cannot cope with conflict. Not a martyr but actually heading for a bad place as I cannot get anyone to listen to me

You need a reset
dd needs to get a ft job and contribute
ds needs to help as well as work

Simple.

I'm assuming the 20k loan was re: a court case in respect of DH's finances? Bit of a leap on my part but reading between the lines it's how I see it.

You're very lucky your 24yo was willing and able to secure such a loan and shoulder such a responsibility. He works a lot of hours per week, but yes should have been able to find some time last summer to help with the garden (but who else would be doing it with him?)

He probably isn't very motivated to offer more help when he see's his sister being bankrolled (who paid for her car?)

Cut her off, she needs to work may and pay her own way.

Your dd is taking the piss op

You are right, they aren’t listening to you. This is why posters are recommending ACTION.

Start with the laundry baskets and using the money you’ve been giving DD to pay for garden to be sorted.

Give DC notice to move out if they won’t contribute financially.

You’re a martyr to keep doing things like your son’s laundry and cooking. Just stop doing it and he will be forced to do it himself, I understand eventually relenting and doing things like emptying bins in communal areas when you ask your kids to do them and they don’t, but why would you relent when asked to do his laundry? If you tell him he needs to do his own laundry and he doesn’t bother the consequence is his to shoulder, not yours. Separate laundry baskets is an easy thing to put in place and then just do your own and don’t worry about when and if your adult children do their own laundry, that’s on them to manage. The same when it comes to cooking meals or buying food they like etc, stop doing it for them and they will have no choice but to step up.

I asked her for six weeks to pick up a blanket she’d thrown out of her car. I eventually removed it.

The fact you are paying towards her bills while she works 11 hours a week, has a horse and behaves this way is absolute lunacy.

Six weeks to pick up a blanket and you paid for her to have luxuries for every one of those weeks?

@Isurrender I really feel for you, you’ve clearly been through a horrible time and need more support. Expecting that from your DC shouldn’t be too much.

In your OP you use the phrase, ‘unless I ask’ over and over again. Asking isn’t working is it? Time for a family meeting where you speak from the heart and tell them how close to a breakdown you feel. Give them an opportunity to speak and be listened to but the bottom line is this: you are not children and you all have to contribute. You TELL your DD (and to a slightly lesser extent your DS in view of their working hours) what is expected of them and you TELL them that this is non negotiable. You can make their lives quite uncomfortable if you choose to but would much prefer that everyone adults up and does their bit.

Although your DH isn’t at home he doesn’t seem to feature much in your life, is he any support to you?

Best wishes.

If you’ve tried all the advice on the thread and those you’ve thought of yourself and to no avail, you may just have to accept this is your life now and carry on as you are.

Alternatively you could just pack some stuff and run away for a while. Leave the house to the slobs and maybe with you not being there, they’ll work out how to wash their socks, maintain a clean living space and other bits of adulting.

What a mess ☹️.

Family meeting time.
you are all adults and all contribute to the mess so all need to contribute to the clean up. Roster of rooms to clean and who does it. Do not let them get away with not doing it. Short term pain for long term gain. You become a nag for a bit but it works in the end.
They need to cook 1 night a week each and clean up 2 nights.
They need to do their own washing and clean their rooms.
Daughter does garden in liu of rent until her work hours match everyone else’s.

If they don’t like it, there is the door as you can’t mentally and physically do it all anymore.
Either that, or they pay for cleaner and gardener.
My brother and his wife gave their DC options of helping around the house or paying someone else to do it. 1 DD helped and 1 DD paid. Work got done.
Good luck

OP look at this logically.

Broke means not having a horse. It's that simple. If your household has a horse that costs that household £220 a month then it is madness to claim you are broke.

That £220 could be going towards all manner of other things including debt repayment.

This is absolute madness.

Again, you cannot claim to be flat broke with a horse that is costing £220 a month.

Can you see that?

They need to pull their weight or chuck them out. Sorry to say this but you are spoiling them. Your daughter needs to do a lot more. Your son works long days so can't be expected to do as much as his sister. When she says her brother doesn't do much tell her to work 11.5 hour days. You need to toughen up with both of them or you will have them at home forever as they won't cope on their own.
Put your big girl pants on and give the pair of them a kick up the arse but a bigger kick for your daughter

The horse is part of the family. Would people be saying give dogs away if you are broke? Pets are expensive but they are our responsibility. One of my cats can’t even look me in the eye after the vet bill I got for her at Christmas. But you don’t move pets on like a piece of furniture.

op I think you show your children this whole thread. You’ve explained yourself well and you write about your circumstances really clearly. Your son and daughter need to help out at home. They must. Your daughter needs to get more work and things must change. Good luck!

Just for reference, I was 18 and at uni and still worked 24-30 hours per week in my job.

She is taking you for a mug.

If she doesnt want to get a job, here's what you do:
You write down a list of everything that needs done in the house. I would say washing, dishes and dinner on the table for coming home is a good start.
Have a calendar with other chores, e.g. hoovering on Mondays and Thursdays, bathroom clean each Wednesday.
Dogs walked daily in the morning.
You wake her up before you leave for work.

If you dont see significant improvement or she refuses to do it, you give 3 months notice for her to move out.

She will proclaim its unfair. Remind her that your son works more in one day than she does an entire week and if she doesnt want to get a full time job, or find a second job, then she will need to resume the role as the household cleaner/maid as that is her contribution.

Stop being a pushover. She's an adult, treat her like one.

If you were genuinely broke to the point of an expensive court case, nearly losing your home and your young adult child having to take out a £20k loan, and you were spending £220 a month on that dog regardless then I would expect to be thinking about rehoming to dog, yes. And I love dogs.

I think your lucky your dd hasn't gone to Uni at aged 18. Our dd will be costing us 1.1k this month. She has to pay £800 deposit for next years rental house, student loan doesn't even cover full rent for this term, we need to pay her to live. And yes she has tried to get a job but it's not easy when you are only in the town half a year.

Sell the horse, personally I'd get the house valued and have a sit down conversation where you offer to sell up, pay DS back and then all move forward alone - with you moving to a small property with no garden. They'll either wake up or you're free or it.

@Isurrender Go to the top right hand corner of the post you want to reply to and left click on the 3 horizontal dots ... there. Click on 'Quote' and then you can type your message

Or alternatively start typing @ followed by the posters name and you will be able to choose it from a list ( like I just did with this reply to you)

Hi OP,
There is an awful lot to unpick in your thread and I think you need to take some time, take a step back, mull over all the suggestions you are getting from the thread and look at the situation with fresh eyes.

My take on it:

You need to stop beating yourself up about the loan your son took. Yes it rescued the family finances and for that you are grateful BUT - your son is living with you rent free at 24 - with a good job. I have had a couple of 20K loans myself over the years. One the repayments were £350 a month and one nearer £300. Obviously how much he is paying will depend on the interest rate and how many years it is spread over. Even up to £500 is perfectly acceptable in lieu of rent. Yes you are grateful but stop making yourself into a doormat because of your gratitude. Do not pay him back for his loan repayments while he is living in your house, paying nothing else and expecting his socks washed!

I think both your son and daughter should contribute to the housework and the rent but just for your consideration how much housework did your son do at 18? I'm guessing not much as he doesn't do much now. Your daughter should help but the comparisons with your son are not helpful Yes your son works long days but it's him that gets the wages for that no-one else. If he wants to outsource his share of contributing to the household perhaps another £40 a week would cover a cleaner doing what he should be doing over 2 hours a week.

If you are going to not do your daughters washing then you can't do your son's. With your bad back perhaps get one of those long grabbers and anything left around e.g. on the bathroom floor toss it into their rooms. You can do this even if you are still willing to do their washing until you ask them to bring it down. I don't think that you should refuse to do your daughters washing at 18 if you are doing your son's at 24. It's both or nothing to me.

If you can get a dishwasher (second hand) it will be life transforming. If not then I think easiest will be if everyone has to do their own washing up including you. It's difficult if you leave yours while telling them not to leave theirs. If you are going to cook for them tell them "I cook - you wash up (straight away). If it's no deal then don't cook for them, just cook for yourself. They can cook and wash up their own stuff or buy something.

I also question your idea that your daughter should take on paying for her horse entirely when it sounds like a family pet and she is only 18 with little work experience or income. I spent all my teenage years up the farm with my horse then I went to uni, put him on loan and never looked back. What if your daughter says she wants to get rid of the horse, have more free time, save for her own place? When you say "we would never sell the horse" or words to that effect it sounds like it's ownership runs beyond your daughter. If it is actually your daughters horse, that she should pay for alone, then she can sell (or put it on loan) if she likes. I have friends who never moved on from horses and took on the costs and it compromised their ability to house themselves and cope financially for decades. I would suggest going halves on the cost of the horse.

I would however encourage your daughter to get a full time job and pay rent. I would ask for a rent repayment exactly the same as your son's loan payment so the logic there is obvious. Perhaps that would be in the region of £400 a month which is very reasonable. When your son pays the loan off, if he still lives at home, he needs to redirect the payment money to you for rent.

Your daughter is treating you disrespectfully, and (from things you’ve written) it seems she perhaps resents you for the court case and how you behaved during it. Don’t let her get away with it. She needs some real talk to help understand your perspective and that you’ve done your best in a horrible situation.

I think a cleaner is a good idea with all adults in the house equally sharing the cost. It may help your sanity.

I think you need to start focusing on yourself. Be kind and care for you above all else. Sounds like you’ve been through a traumatic experience and your physical health needs some attention. Let go of any guilt, it’s pointless to beat yourself up over what’s happened. Find a way to let go of regrets and any feelings that aren’t helping you. Prioritise your own health and work on changing your perspective. You got through it / lived to tell the tale (some don’t, stress is a killer). Well done… Keep going!

Sell the horse no matter how much it breaks your heart. Needs must. You can always get another one.

@TheSandgroper that's not how it works with a beloved pet.

Thank you OP. The horse is definitely a family member. Any pet we have through our door has a home for life and I would never give one up.

I would like to apologise to everyone because yes of course I cannot claim to be totally broke with paying £220 for a horse each month. What I mean is that all our reserves are gone.

My son is currently setting up the jet washer and my daughter is cleaning the dining room. I am separating our dirty clothes and removing the wash bin from the bathroom. From now it will contain only my clothes and be kept in my bedroom.

Sux months ago my daughter removed her two geckos from her room and set them up on the landing whilst she decorated. She had said she cannot have them back in her room and they must stay there. I have told her to advertise them or take them back to her room by tomorrow.

People have suggested putting the horse for loan - you haven't come back on this. How come this hasn't been an option? It would free up £200 of the household income every month.

If your daughter doesn't want to do jobs and is that disrespectful then she can loan or part loan the horse and use the excess money saved to pay for a cleaner.

Sux months ago my daughter removed her two geckos from her room and set them up on the landing whilst she decorated. She had said she cannot have them back in her room and they must stay there. I have told her to advertise them or take them back to her room by tomorrow.

What has stopped you giving her an ultimatum before on things like this OP?

Is it the guilt of the court case and financial troubles your husband caused?

You can't function on guilt alone. It's causing the family to further spiral into even more chaos.

What are you scared of? That she will move out? If she chooses to do that instead of pitching in with jobs, as an adult, then that's that.

The horse hasn’t come through your door. It is not a cat or dog, it is stabled. Horses change hands or are loaned often, dogs aren’t. Stop pretending it is the same thing, it is just another of your excuses.