To say that just because someone is opposed to " Trans Acceptance Without Exception" it doesn't mean that they are GC or Feminist.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And it's important to understand the difference?

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Radical Feminist POV. Gender is abstract. A societal construct that can be accepted, rejected or adapted throughout life. Gender is different to biological sex which is scientifically binary and immutable so Gender is not really important and not a stable basis for law.

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Feminist POV. Gender might have a biological component. Fine with gender ideology long as biological women's rights, security and single sex spaces are safe with no encroachment from males.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because they believe in stereotypical gender roles. Men should be men and women should be women. This is not GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because of misogyny. They hate women. They hate men pretending to be women because it debases men. This is not GC or feminist.

Am i being Unreasonable to say that just because someone is opposed to TRA "acceptance without exception", it doesnt mean they are Gender Critical or feminists. And we need to understand the difference.

And we are pointing out it is now all mainstream media. And likely all media when you look at media as a whole. And we have repeatedly stated we have been well aware of this for years!

Can you post any post that doesn’t acknowledge that we already know quite a bit about media platforms?

@DrBalenciaga, try not to take the posts against you too personally. Unfortunately I've been on the receiving end too. I've been called hysterical, MRA, TRA, shill, troll, Handmaiden had my mental health questioned and repeatedly accused of being a Labour supporter for daring to criticise the government.

It's an attempt to discourage people from commenting. It's designed to silence you.

DARVO.

@TooBigForMyBoots

It's an attempt to discourage people from commenting. It's designed to silence you.

Why though? They don't like being silenced; why shut down others? Other women?

I don’t think being a labour supporter is an insult in these parts.

Many if not most people here are or have been.

It’s the disappointment with Labour that stokes the engines in many ways. The women writing for the DM et al are refugees from elsewhere, not people who looked there first.

It’s all so incoherent. And yes a strong whiff of DARVO.

The victim mentality of it all.

This strategy isnʼt working, so don't bother.

This strategy isnʼt working, so don't bother.

I'll post how I like, thanks. Your posting style is starting to sound quite familiar.

Yep. However we need to look deeper and at all the media. At least we know what goes on at the Guardian.

What's scarier is the lack of reporting when a government minister stands at the Despatch Box and says TWAW and TMAM wrt a Maternity Bill. You can bet your arse they'd have reported such twaddle if it had been an Opposition Front Bencher saying it. Similarly if any other party appointed a transperson to Women and Equalities Commission.

It's important to ask "why?" If the endgame is women's safeguarding and rights to single sex spaces, why are they so silent on our government's erosion of this?

And twist.

TooBig. Can you please point to posts who have been fully supportive of the Tory government on this thread?

Or have posters been pointing out historical context you seem to want to ignore? Or have they pointed out that declaring that reading certain media makes you 'RW' or 'pawns' or 'far right' is tribal, it is offensive, it is totalitarian, it is infantilising and it is ideological? Or have they pushed back on insults, on the patronising and on the falsehoods?

Please post those posts where someone has declared that the Tory government has a stellar record.

Because this thread, started by you, has descended again into a group of posters telling women what they should and should not read and then dramatically over reacting to those people pushing back on that totalitarian approach.

So the middle ground is, to keep single sex spaces except for when we don't for those small percentage of women with penises.

I am going to again ask:

Please post the abusive posts that you have referred to up thread.

To claim people are abusing you, when they are not, is most definitely an abusive move. It is as was pointed out by eresh that it is DARVO.

You admit that your posts were patronising. I suggest that they are more than that.

You claim that you are civil. It is not civil to arrive on a thread and post calling women 'pawns' and making accusations of progressing a far right agenda just by reposting content. And now so many other posts with name calling and the like. Vultures, and arrogant, full of bile and I am very happy to go back and repost them all for you. You seem to like to deny you are doing this.

This is not 'civil' behaviour.

So, please, point out the abuse that YOU have received on this thread so all reading can see exactly what you categorise as abuse.

I'm not telling anyone what they can or cannot read.

I refuse to ignore what has happened under the current government in the past 14 years.
I have no control over what anyone else posts.

I made this thread to explain that GC is not an umbrella term that encompasses DT, the Tory Party, the Catholic Church etc.

TooBig. Can you please point to posts who have been fully supportive of the Tory government on this thread?

Or have posters been pointing out historical context you seem to want to ignore? Or have they pointed out that declaring that reading certain media makes you 'RW' or 'pawns' or 'far right' is tribal, it is offensive, it is totalitarian, it is infantilising and it is ideological? Or have they pushed back on insults, on the patronising and on the falsehoods?

Please post those posts where someone has declared that the Tory government has a stellar record.

Because this thread, started by you, has descended again into a group of posters telling women what they should and should not read and then dramatically over reacting to those people pushing back on that totalitarian approach.

What Helle said.

I would say the middle ground is a third space.

FFS! Go and fucking read which government brought in the GRC and the EA2010.

You seem to be stuck on one track. 'the evil Tory party'. Yes. Fine. Go for it.

However, you cannot acknowledge with any accuracy the current situation with all political parties.

And we KNOW that the term Gender Critical has been malignly expanded by people who are extreme activists making extreme demands for male inclusion. Many of us on this thread have patiently explained it time and time again.

You have control over what YOU post.

Not everyone knows that the term Gender Critical has been malignly expanded as the thread shows.

I missed this I think.

Arrogance? Like dismissing my post as an 'essay' that you didn't bother reading?

"A group of you are particularly rude and pretending you are not is laughable. Just own it."

Seriously? We are rude?

I suggest that you look back over your own posts, as others reading along have already done and others will be doing, and you might like to consider whether or not you even started posting on this thread in a 'civil' manner.

If you think I am rude, that is absolutely fine with me. You can call it 'rude' and I will happily post all your posts and your name calling, your patronising, your own arrogance, your accusations back to you. Go for it.

Or is that what you consider rude? Someone pointing out your own behaviour?

And yet, the discussion is revolving around the evil Tories, who you wish to demonise and yet, you don't seem to be using anything near the same language about the Labour Party around this issue?

Tell me toobig do you honestly think that Labour Party is going to fix this situation? yes or no?

Do you understand that it is totalitarian to tell woman what media they can and cannot post if the media is relevant to what the poster is trying to say?

Do you think it is ok for any poster on this thread to attempt to shame women who have a wider knowledge and understanding of the situation for reading, writing and discussing particular media? Yes or no?

And we have posted more up to date opinions of both of these men.

Both men have been clear about women needing single sex spaces and that woman is a female and not a male in recent times.

Considering the fact that when both of these articles were published, it was considered cruel and worthy of significant ramifications if words were blunt about a female being without a penis.

Or have you forgotten that it was last year and Isla Bryson that unfortunately made it ok to finally say 'no woman has a penis' as a politician?

@Helleofabore

I suggest that you look back over your own posts, as others reading along have already done and others will be doing, and you might like to consider whether or not you even started posting on this thread in a 'civil' manner.

These posts were after I'd been attacked over and over. I'd lost patience. Maybe you might consider why that might be.

Oh yes?

Is it?

Who is going to fund all these third spaces and how will that work in practice?

The moment you stop a man from entering he pulls the 'I'm a woman' card and Keir's 0.01% of women who do have a penis card is invoked.

As long as the GRA is in place this is going to happen.

@Helleofabore

Please post the abusive posts that you have referred to up thread.

There are far too many. It would be easier if you filtered your own posting history, DewHopper's, or @Ereshkigalangcleg's. I don't have a Premium account or I would be pleased to do it for you.

My discussion revolves around our Government. The people with the power to do something @Helleofabore.

You might want to have a look at this interview, about how it isn't the government that is actually running what goes on behind the scenes.