Are my kids naughty or normal

[Jingledog]

I have a 2 year and 3.5 year old DS. Went shopping today and the 2 year was in pram wailing until he was given snacks and screeching at top of lungs.

3 year old wanted to do everything tap the card put food in trolley scan items etc when I did some too as he had a meltdown threw himself on the floor screaming and saying mummy I wanted to do it. Same in the next shop then running off after pigeons and not coming back.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

OP I had three under 3.5 at one point, I know, what an idiot! Young children are hard to manage, partly because it can be so random. One minute you’re bathed in a happy glow of being with adorable, beautiful souls, the next minute it’s bedlam and you fear you’ve brought demons into the world!

Once I had the second, and until the youngest was about 3, I stopped going to supermarkets with DC, full stop. They are stressful environments. DH or I went alone, often late at night. Not sure if this can be an option for you?

i also stopped socialising except at my/someone else’s home. Hearing the tuts of disapproving/stressed strangers just drove me crazy. Again, could this work for you?

Good luck OP, it will get better - but you do need to be firm.

I don't think children at that age have any need to be in a restaurant.

The restaurant is your preference, not theirs.

Restaurants results in double the amount of parenting and expensive, uneaten food.

Total waste of your time and money and they don't enjoy it! Neither do you!

This get out clause will give you 10 year olds who can't sit still / are addicted to screens in restaurants.

Start small when they are small

^^

Clue is in the response. It will take you 10 years.

You have already said that you give in to tantrums or give them screens to keep them quiet so I fear that you have inadvertently taught them that bad behaviour pays off.

You would only have to put them back in the car and go home 2-3 times for them to realise that bad behaviour has negative consequences.

Distraction, pre-empting triggers and following through on consequences work.

My DS could get out of straps by a year old - it was awful.

You're implying her friend's children's good behaviour may be due to the result of some sort of trauma or possibly abuse.

Rather then them simply being well behaved due to good parenting.

That was low and unnecessary when you know it's far more likely to be down to good parenting.

I just reversed the straps so they did up behind their backs.
They are not Houdini 😂

I know you say you reprimand and explain why they cant do stuff bit what is the consequence if they do it again? Leave restaurant? Return a toy? Confiscate something? Equally what child friendly thing do they have to do at the table and have they had an opportunity to do before the restaurant? It's a mix of discipline and reasonable expectations.

For example, I'd go to the park before a restaurant and not give snacks so hey are keen to sit at a table with books and colouring and some bread coupled with a threat of no ice cream work better than a morning of shopping in which the child has probably either been walking or sat in a pushchair and been told No all morning only to get to anoher place to sit still and be quiet feeling bored, full of energy and depleted willpower to behave.

A bit of give and take on activity planning, setting expectations and discipline I think.

No! Of course I wasn’t implying THEY are traumatised and you must know that but obviously take a strange pleasure in misconstruing people’s ideas. Granted, I could have been clearer and less subtle, but it was just an example of why op shouldn’t compare herself/her children with others. If I meant what you imply I would have said so.

Me and my siblings were those very well behaved kids so I speak from experience.

just to let anyone else who is going to have a pop know that I won’t be responding to any more silly pile ons.

You said you were not replying a couple posts ago.

Wish I'd had that advice then - what a great idea!!

I took my own set, reversed and put a long sleeve bib over 😎

Did I?

I was a very very well behaved child - but my dad was a bit scary, that’s why. I would have preferred more relaxed parents - maybe I wouldn’t have ended up having so much anxiety.

I think its good for children to feel comfortable enough to not be perfectly behaved - having said that, if their behaviour is impacting on others then I apologise and remove them or distract them - i dont come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Many people here seem to catastrophize and think if you dont get the behaviour of 2 and 3 year olds under control the children will end up in juvenile detention.

i think as long as you’re a good enough parent then your children will hopefully turn out good enough in the end. They dont have to be perfect. When they are old enough to listen to reason its a bit easier.

'I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore'.

You are the parent here, OP, and if your children instinctively know (as they obviously do) that if they keep on pressing your buttons you will allow them to run riot and they will be given snacks and treats to appease them, then of course they will keep on running riot - it gets results! And if your 'nerves can't take any more', maybe you should have considered this possibility and how you were going to parent any children before having them - or did you expect they would acquire social skills without intervention on your part?

It is totally wrong to allow children to behave like this in a restaurant, thus spoiling it for others. How to you think other people feel when their meal is disrupted and it's impossible to talk to fellow diners because of your kids behaviour and noise? I cannot imagine how you would sit there and allow it to happen - you seem really apathetic, as though it's no fault of yours, but it is - because you set no boundaries for them, there are no consequences, they are rewarded for their antics. And by the way, pigeons are not there as playthings or to be frightened by children, either - so a responsible parent should intervene to stop them chasing after pigeons as well.

@DriftingDora She “doesn’t want to give that any airtime” though. She doesn’t want to take any responsibility for the fact that she has caused this.

@DriftingDora of course I stopped and reprimanded hem on these two occasions I didn't just sit watching and smiling. My question was if other children did it or attempted to not if others 'also did nothing about it'. Honestly. This thread is full of people looking for an arguement and to pile on like @Ramalangadingdong said. So sorry they're jumping on you too

Many people here seem to catastrophize and think if you dont get the behaviour of 2 and 3 year olds under control the children will end up in juvenile detention.

Silly exaggeration.

Most people are saying you need to be consistent with kids and with what you expect from them behaviour-wise, and to make the consequences clear and stick to them.

@BananasInThreePieceSuits ok what would you like me to say. I'm a terrible parent. I dedicate every breathing minute to them and do the best I possibly can but I am an utter failure. Better?

No. Something along the lines of “shit, I fucked up. I didn’t realise my wish for an easy life was actually training my children to scream at me. I will do some research on child behaviour and development and change tactics accordingly.”

That would be the optimal response and the one your children deserve.

Dedicating every breathing minute to them doesn't automatically make you a good parent. Rather than being melodramatic, it would probably be more constructive to listen to what advice you've been given and re-think your parenting strategies while the kids are still young and pre-school.

I'm a bit similar to you op, in the fact that I'd give in to them

Which is why I feel that if you can't change the behaviour, change the situation

So go to different places

@coxesorangepippin You can change the behaviour - you just have to put some effort in. Aren’t your children worth that?

@Jingledog you are definitely doing something right as the kids are saving all their shite for you. They are well behaved at nursery etc so call it a win.

I am very lucky to have generally placid children but they do all get out of hand at times

My tips are:

Pick your battles- if you go on at them all the time, it becomes white noise.

Give them a chance to earn reward/praise Could you be a superstar and do (xyz)? Could you help me by (abc)? etc.

Anticipate a melt down and stop it before it starts

Never let them get bored in public- I spy, thumb war, scavenger hunts, count the number of (x) games are competitive and can be played anywhere.

Divide early and conquer- don’t let a bicker become a full scale argument. Cut it short and distract with a positive.

Look after yourself too. You need to take some time to recharge. Mums work so much more efficiently when they get a break. No one would accept a job working 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, no holiday or sick leave. It is bloody exhausting but doesn’t last forever. Fortunately the pay is love and hugs which makes it worthwhile. X

Hey OP. I haven't read all the comments but I just wanted to comment anyway.

I think your kids sound normal. I'm sure sometimes they also have days when they're slightly better behaved. You have probably had a tough few days and are forgetting the times they were a bit better behaved. It all blurs into one.

My children are almost 2 and almost 4. So not too different from yours.

We have had really bad moments, just like you describe. And you ask yourself if it's normal, then we have some better moments. The better moments are increasing. I can tell. Especially my 4 year old. Even compared to what she was like at 3 and a half. She also still has her moments too, but it cannot be compared to how she was.

It just takes time. I don't think it's what I did particularly or how I parented her. It's her brain and her emotions. She's maturing. Just now I was drying her hair after her bath and remembering how absolutely nuts she'd go, even a year ago at me doing that. Or how much she'd scream in the bath when I would wash her hair. She was so distressed I really thought maybe there was a problem.

She still has her moments now and again, when she's particularly tired or hungry etc. but it's so much better. She can accept no a bit. I really don't think it had anything to do with me that she's changed.

My almost 2 year old is going through the tantrum stage now and it's really testing, but I've seen it all before. He'll get over it when he matures.

I'm not saying you should give in etc. try to stay as firm as you can, try to distract them and sometimes, just don't go places. I sometimes just didn't go places as I knew we just couldn't handle it. I still don't do certain things I know I can't handle on my own with them. They're small kids and they will act out sometimes, they just need patience / understanding and boundaries.