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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why the hate for boys?

807 replies

Numberttwotwo · 06/01/2024 07:14

I know this has probably been discussed before. But I seem to come across something every day that makes me feel less worthy, someone to pity and just a bit shit.
I have 2 boys. They are kind, gentle, loving and the best of friends.
So why are my friends (really ‘good’ very longstanding friends) and strangers making comments that make me feel like this. Granted they’re comments about ‘boys’ and not MY boys.
I’ve been told (by a friend with one of each) that mums of boys won’t matter when they’re married and sons will be closer to the in laws.
I was told by a friend’s husband they HAD to find out the sex at 20 weeks because they’d have been soooo disappointed if it was a boy. (In front of my boys)
I was told yesterday (also in front of them) that my friend had been put off EVER having a boy by the behaviour of her nephew.
And this is not including all mentions of trying for a girl whenever we talk about possibly having a third.
I wish I had better ways of responding in the moment but for some reason I always bite my tongue.

YABU - boys are the worst and I pity anyone with more than one.
YANBU - the world should just parent their children and stop with the stupid comments based on nothing more than genitals

Rant over.

OP posts:
KhakiGreenBoots · 09/01/2024 10:55

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HighQueenOfTheFarRealm · 09/01/2024 11:28

It's a huge societal problem currently. Lots of boys don't have good males in their lives. Even in schools, there are so many more women than male teachers. 75% of teachers are female.
They're also given conflicting messages. They should be as masculine as possible but also, they should reign in their masculinity.
On the one hand, they need to be strong, capable, athletic, successful and this will lead to a queue of women. On the other, they should be gentle, thoughtful, kind, sensitive and to be really careful around women in case they come across as predatory.

This is one of the reasons why boys and young men are following Andrew Tate. These boys are trying to navigate their way into manhood and are following someone who they see as rich, strong and is successful with women. Who else is out there speaking to them?
Jordan Peterson maybe but he might be too intellectual to be relatable for many.

More good men need to step up.

CurlewKate · 09/01/2024 12:22

@KhakiGreenBoots I am freelance and old, so I'm in a position to do stuff. I wasn't suggesting that other people do the same- sorry-I was just responding to your question!
But there is a lot that we can all do in the way we parent our boys, in the way that we-and especially men- talk to and deal with men. Men need to step up and model the change we want to see in the world. Many good men are silent-they need to be loud and proud.

SleepingStandingUp · 09/01/2024 12:34

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Your know sonographers name mistakes? What is your darling girl transitioned?
Also you hate men so much you'd choose to kill them in the womb, but your willing to use a male donor to get pregnant. Isn't that rather hypocritical?

SleepingStandingUp · 09/01/2024 12:42

JMSA · 06/01/2024 23:25

@SleepingStandingUp

I have twin 4 yo boys, I can offer to rent them to you for a weekend. Let me know a postal address 🤣

My get-out is that I said I wondered what it would be like to have ONE GrinGrinGrin

But they came from one egg. I'll send you the contents of one egg.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 09/01/2024 12:45

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How lovely of you

Gettingbysomehow · 09/01/2024 12:56

I adore my DS. He's 40 now and we talk nearly everyday.
I wanted a boy because we are all girls in my family.
I was a single mum and I cant possibly imagine a girl being any better.
He's a sensitive soul and a professional artist so not really your rugged "I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok" kind of bloke 😂although he looks like a big bearded bear. He has a lovely partner and he and she have been together for 10 years now. They don't want kids.
The funny thing is I have zero time for men and dislike most of them. But your DS will always be special to you regardless.

JMSA · 09/01/2024 13:26

@SleepingStandingUp

Well, who am I to argue with that logic? Grin

wateringcanface · 09/01/2024 14:13

HighQueenOfTheFarRealm · 09/01/2024 11:28

It's a huge societal problem currently. Lots of boys don't have good males in their lives. Even in schools, there are so many more women than male teachers. 75% of teachers are female.
They're also given conflicting messages. They should be as masculine as possible but also, they should reign in their masculinity.
On the one hand, they need to be strong, capable, athletic, successful and this will lead to a queue of women. On the other, they should be gentle, thoughtful, kind, sensitive and to be really careful around women in case they come across as predatory.

This is one of the reasons why boys and young men are following Andrew Tate. These boys are trying to navigate their way into manhood and are following someone who they see as rich, strong and is successful with women. Who else is out there speaking to them?
Jordan Peterson maybe but he might be too intellectual to be relatable for many.

More good men need to step up.

Non of those justify the love for Andrew Tate. Women receive just as many mixed messages about feminity, roles, expectations, how to look good while also being told how they shouldnt care how they will look, told to be self sufficient but then also told to have children which makes being self sufficient hard etc, and women don't turn to idolising hateful, cocky cretins who promote violence and abuse.

The 'boys need a Role model' thing is just an excuse trotted out. They like Andrew Tate because its convenient, because they like the idea of being rich, putting themselves first, being able to be cruel and dressing it up as "speaking facts", and seeing themselves as a man as top dog and having women around them being second class and subservient. That message conviently appeals, hence the following. It has nothing to do with a longing for role model. It's validating a lifestyle that seems appealing.

Jordan Peterson isn't great either. He also promotes the views that women's role is purely to raise the kids while husband is the leader of household. Again, a convenient idol for boys and men, as what man wouldn't want that?

Role models are everywhere, good ones. The problem with boys and men and their misogynistic views isn't the lack of positive role models, its the fact the negative role models messages are too loud, convenient and appealing to resist.

KhakiGreenBoots · 09/01/2024 15:01

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Libertyy · 09/01/2024 15:23

SleepingStandingUp · 09/01/2024 12:34

Your know sonographers name mistakes? What is your darling girl transitioned?
Also you hate men so much you'd choose to kill them in the womb, but your willing to use a male donor to get pregnant. Isn't that rather hypocritical?

I’d do a blood test, I don’t rely on ultrasounds. I don’t hate men, I just don’t want a male baby. And if my daughter transitions she’s still my daughter, I don’t believe in sex changes.

KhakiGreenBoots · 09/01/2024 15:27

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Ramalangadingdong · 09/01/2024 15:43

healthadvice123 · 06/01/2024 18:13

@mottytotty because that is often the narrative on here that you see when you have been on a while.
Op own mum saint , her dh interferring.
OP wants to be with her num at xmas , understandable, he dh wants to be with his, needs to cut the apron strings etc
not all obviously but responses always heavily on favour of the womens mum

Are you kidding me? Mums in general are deemed satanic on MN - apart from OP’s who are mums themselves. They are all saints.

MissyB1 · 09/01/2024 16:16

Libertyy · 09/01/2024 15:23

I’d do a blood test, I don’t rely on ultrasounds. I don’t hate men, I just don’t want a male baby. And if my daughter transitions she’s still my daughter, I don’t believe in sex changes.

Well if you are in the Uk or any other country that doesn’t allow sex selection, then best you never conceive at all.

StickyStickyStickSticks · 09/01/2024 16:25

Libertyy · 09/01/2024 15:23

I’d do a blood test, I don’t rely on ultrasounds. I don’t hate men, I just don’t want a male baby. And if my daughter transitions she’s still my daughter, I don’t believe in sex changes.

I have never heard something so disgusting. “I just don’t want a male baby”

StickyStickyStickSticks · 09/01/2024 16:28

I have all boys. I love it.

we found out at our 20 weeks scan with all of them because after six miscarriages I wanted to know as much about my baby as I could. And couldn’t care less if they were a girl or a boy because I was so just so grateful they were still alive

KhakiGreenBoots · 09/01/2024 16:35

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HighQueenOfTheFarRealm · 09/01/2024 16:48

@wateringcanface why are so many boys attracted to that lifestyle?
What lifestyle do you think they should be attracted to and where could they see that promoted?

wateringcanface · 09/01/2024 17:23

HighQueenOfTheFarRealm · 09/01/2024 16:48

@wateringcanface why are so many boys attracted to that lifestyle?
What lifestyle do you think they should be attracted to and where could they see that promoted?

I think because it is so naturally and culturally engrained into society that men have a level entitlement and superiority, that they wear t-shirts as a kid that say "hero" "little boy, big ideas", whereas girls have "big smile" "little princess" etc. Boys tend to have activities their parents bend over backwards to facilitate, such as sports. They are encouraged to aim high for careers, a boy is praised far more highly for being funny, gentle, or generous compared to a female counterpart - that when something comes along to challenge the status quo, such as feminism, or people daring critique aspects of masculinity that can be damaging, it is seen as an attack.

It is comfortable for them to believe that all the things alpha males or Andrew Tate preach such as having multiple hot girlfriends, a subservient wife, someone to pop out kids for you and for you to dedicate your time to being ripped and rich is their entitlement and anyone who dares points out the negatives or how those ideologies are hurting women, are just attacking 'masculinity' and taking away their rights. Boys are only retrospectively saying that they need a role model, as the alpha males that have come along have appeased their belief regarding their entitlement, thus making them happier.

Combating that issue is difficult, it is in the nuances on how you raise a child, even the subtle things such as how they hear their grandmother talk about their sons achievements in comparison to their daughters for example, the language they are exposed to, the real-life attitudes of those around them, bringing boys up in a household where they see teamwork, equality. They learn to identify behaviours that are selfish and unfair from an early age and be able to rationalise and challenge them. They learn to recognise how to take constructive criticism, how to recognise flaws in others. It comes from upbringing and a great societal effort.

They do not need a celebrity role model to learn how to be a 'man'. All Andrew Tate does it capitalise on a bunch of boys who are unhappy and frustrated that they don't get their own way all the time.

It's difficult, that's why it's my opinion that I would have more anxieties raising a boy compared to a girl.

Both women and men can be victim to masculinity, no one is a victim of femininity. With daughters, you have to contend with minimising the risk that your daughter will fall victim to 'toxic masculinity', with a son, you have to contend with both the risk of them falling victim and being a perpetrator of toxic masculinity.

Arthursmom · 09/01/2024 17:47

I’m pregnant with a second boy. I was surprised at how many people felt disappointed for me. I’m delighted I’m having another boy!

HighQueenOfTheFarRealm · 09/01/2024 17:52

@wateringcanface I appreciate what your saying but what do you do with the boys who are generally more attracted to sports and do want to look good so work out.
Why shouldn't they aim high for careers.

I work with kids so I listened to Andrew Tate (very reluctantly!).
I think he's pretty awful but boys tell me that he has positive messages too and they like his messages about goals, motivation and achievements and he does have those messages too.
It's not true that he only appeals to boys and men who are frustrated they don't get their own way. These are just boys who are trying to find their place in the world.

God knows how many thousands of followers he has but I can guarantee that they're not all males who want to take advantage of women and keep them subservient.
Boys are mirroring what they see around them and on social media which is why they need positive role models.

There's a conversation to be had about girls too but this thread is about boys.

StickyStickyStickSticks · 09/01/2024 18:08

Arthursmom · 09/01/2024 17:47

I’m pregnant with a second boy. I was surprised at how many people felt disappointed for me. I’m delighted I’m having another boy!

Worth it purely for how easy it is with hand me downs imo 😂😂😂

wateringcanface · 09/01/2024 18:08

HighQueenOfTheFarRealm · 09/01/2024 17:52

@wateringcanface I appreciate what your saying but what do you do with the boys who are generally more attracted to sports and do want to look good so work out.
Why shouldn't they aim high for careers.

I work with kids so I listened to Andrew Tate (very reluctantly!).
I think he's pretty awful but boys tell me that he has positive messages too and they like his messages about goals, motivation and achievements and he does have those messages too.
It's not true that he only appeals to boys and men who are frustrated they don't get their own way. These are just boys who are trying to find their place in the world.

God knows how many thousands of followers he has but I can guarantee that they're not all males who want to take advantage of women and keep them subservient.
Boys are mirroring what they see around them and on social media which is why they need positive role models.

There's a conversation to be had about girls too but this thread is about boys.

I'm not saying boys shouldn't aim high or do sports, I am saying the language and attitudes a lot of boys and men have been raised with leads them to believe that they are more deserving of those life experiences and choices than women are. They don't strive for equality like women, they strive for superiority. I said it was subtle, it is not that boys should be denied these things, but how attitudes to boys wants, desires and aspirations are approached comparatively to girls.

I'm sorry but there is no positive influence with Andrew Tate. Yes, he preaches "go to the gym" "work hard to be rich" but then in the next breath he'll be telling boys to not allow women to work, that liberal women are dirty, that you should fight, carry weapons, hold a woman by the throat to "programme her". Ask any kid why they like Andrew Tate and they'll show one of his motivational speeches, the part they won't show you is where boys are sending each other videos back and forward where he is calling women whores women "used up pussy" left right and centre. I am on twitter involved with others trying to spread awareness on the dangerous messages, a girl posted screenshots of her interactions with the tates, where she was forced to give a blow job while covered in sick when she was 17. All the comments were boys mostly teenagers, telling her a whore, saying "boohoo you got raped, get over it" "bet you loved it". - I can bet 100% if I was to ask any of those boys why they like him, they would say "he teaches positive messages about masculinity".

wateringcanface · 09/01/2024 18:21

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I'd say 13-17 is his biggest fan base

He's currently awaiting trial in romania for rape and human trafficking, and also has a civil case in UK for 4 accounts of rape, including strangling a woman till she's unconscious and raping her limp body. He's got a big social media presence and huge fan base

KhakiGreenBoots · 09/01/2024 18:36

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