To ask-If you have a lot of girl friends, what is your secret?

[LKF01]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this thread or called a misogynist or something, but I'm genuinely feeling really down about my lack of friends. In the words of Taylor Swift, it's me, I'm the problem, it's me!!

For reference, I do have girl friends, I have about 6 friends that I've been friends with for years and that I see individually (as they don't know one another) regularly for dinner/ drinks etc, but I would like more. I'd like to socialise with someone each week, at the moment, I see one friend probably every 3 weeks on average and I'm starting to feel lonely, where I haven't before.

However, I have found and this is the honest truth (and if you can't be truthful on an anonymous forum, when can you be?) that women just don't seem to like me 😳 It's an issue I've had my whole life. I don't have the same problem with men and am more at ease around them (which I know probably helps).

I seem to piss women off, not so much one on one but if there's a group of women, I'll always be the one on the periphery and if there's say 3 of us, the other 2 after an hour or so will appear closer and irritated with me.

Our neighbour had a drinks evening a couple of weeks ago with us and two other couples. There were 2 women there from the village that I've known for years, have had evenings down the pub with them, drunken BBQ's in the summer etc and tbh, I always thought we were friends, or good acquaintances. However, I don't know what I did but after an hour or so, they just seemed unfriendly, going off together in another room constantly, if we were in the same room they'd talk between themselves and leave me out of the conversation completely. One of them was abrasive and a bit snappy with me all evening.

I just sat there in the end with the men, who were talking about stuff that I had no interest in, on my phone or sat there in silence when these other 2 women were sat next to me but one with their back to me so it was obvious I wasn't particularly welcome to join in their conversation and when I tried, got a lacklustre response. Neither of them asked me anything all evening, even though I hadn't seen them both for a couple of months. I took an interest in both their lives and they answered me, but didn't reciprocate, which is unusual for them.

I don't know, I could give you 100's of examples over the years of women just not taking to me.

I can tell you what I'm not:

Gushy- I don't gush over other women, complimenting them all the time or telling them how amazing they are in a way I see other women doing. If a friend is going through a hard time or whatever then I'll say something nice in context, but on the whole I find the fawning and gushing that a lot of women seem to do with one another quite fake and nauseating and I certainly don't expect it from other people. If I love someone's dress/ coat/ bag / hairstyle or whatever then I'll say so, but I don't just randomly give out compliments.

Maternal- Despite having 2 children (twins, otherwise I'd have been OAD!) and loving them with every fibre of my being, I've never been maternal and honestly? I have little interest in other people's children. I AM that woman at gatherings with kids who avoids them as much as I can and doesn't really make an effort with them. I'll interact with them a tiny bit, but generally I'm avoiding them. I know that some women dislike me for this, but I'm just not good with other people's children and don't enjoy the interaction so limit it. I do however make an effort for friend's children, I try and interact with them more and I always ask about them when I'm with my friends.

Sweet- I don't think I could be described as sweet (and I appreciate a lot of women aren't to be fair, I know this is a lazy stereotype but I do find a lot of women quite 'sweet' for want of a better word) but my sense of humour is generally quite lad bibley (fb/Instagram page/ feed for anyone who doesn't know) quite dry and sometimes sarcy. Favourite comedian is Ricky Gervais. I'd say I have more of a 'male' sense of humour, or perhaps that men just appreciate it more.

I appreciate there is some generalisations with the above and I don't mean any offence, I'm trying to really look at myself and decipher why it could be that women are put off me.

One thing I do is always take an interest in the other person, I always ask people how they are, how's work going, how are the kids getting on in school/ their hobbies etc. I do worry sometimes that people will think I'm interviewing them?

I've found over the last 5-6 years (probably since I've had DC and have been sleep deprived/ my brain seems to have gone on a permanent holiday!) that I have seemed to lose the art of conversation a bit, I find I struggle to make general chit chat and rely on questions to get conversations going/ sustain them. I'm wondering if that's where I'm going wrong, but I just don't seem to remember how to just chat without asking questions 😳

Can anyone help? If you have loads of girl friends, what are the things that other women seem to be attracted to you for? What makes you a good friend?

You do come across a bit "not like the other girls" OP, maybe they get that vibe.

Sorry OP but you sound like a complete pick me.

I would imagine that there's body language and micro expressions that other women are picking up on. If you go into every interaction believing that you're different to them it will show.

@Legselevens

Can you clarify? Are you saying me asking where you have seen “really unkind and unhelpful comments” is a really unkind and unhelpful comment?!

Disagreement is not unkindness. In fact I would argue that it is the posters claiming that the women are jealous are the ones who are being really unkind by perpetuating a false narrative routed in misogyny that can never be helpful to the OP.

Pegasus Returns' post was perfectly fine. Whatever point you think it verified is beyond me. If anything, I think your response was pretty snide.

On the gushiness topic, I have no interest in being complimented on my clothes or hair because I don't care about that stuff and put no thought in to it but I do try to make sure people know I really enjoyed their company if I did. These are also the 'compliments' I love to receive because it takes the worry out of arranging future catch ups because I know we have connected already.

The other thing that I think helps establish new friendships is that I absolutely share any rubbish I have been thinking about. I will tell anyone about the new book that I've been reading, how I tried park run for the first time, or any thing else. Then listen, some things they will run with and that can be a great conversation and some things they won't. When they tell me something I try to run with that idea if it interests me instead of moving on to another question about them.

WouldRatherBeAPieceOftToast
It's the benefit of the "not like the other girls" outlook.

Decide that other women are mean/bitchy/jealous/emotional/insecure/hard to get on with/not as easy to get on with as men.
Decide you're not like other women because you're not like that.

Some women will say "actually women are a diverse group and that's kinda sexist. Maybe you're giving off signals that you don't seem to think much of women and other women are picking up on this".

Take the responses as proof that women are hard to get on with, difficult, mean etc.

It's similar to people who believe in astrology hearing someone say they don't agree with it and think it's bollocks saying "see, you're proving it's right. Typical Libra behaviour".

OP sounds like you are overthinking this.. just relax and stop analysing everyone's behaviour try to enjoy social gatherings

It does sound like you grill people with questions and don’t genuinely care about the answer. Trust me that is obvious to people. You won’t build connection that way you have to identify with people what they are feeling and saying- the emotion behind the words. Just an example here thinking about my own recent interactions:

You: “so you’re at college as well as working?”
Them: ”yes I do a day a week at college plus assignments”
Now instead of “what day are you at college” or other fact finding questions you could maybe say “gosh you must be really busy and with dc too? How are you finding that? Is anyone helping you with childcare? It’s great you are managing this- hope you get to take a break occasionally too that sounds a lot!”
You have shown some empathy and care here so she feels understood and heard or at least that you actually care.

Also as Pps have said it does sound too like you have this pre-conceived stereotype of women and a little chip on your shoulder going into these interactions- just remember it’s your energy people pick up on and respond to more so than your words. Once you can empathise and put yourself in their shoes (imagine they’re close family) you will genuinely start to be interested and care about them (obviously if you feel they are good people and worth being friends with).
You do obviously care hence writing your post so I hope the thread helps you with this.

I think it's your conversation OP. Not a slight, I've had to work on this too, but it's very easy to fall into a trap of asking all the big questions and going "Well I was nice, interested, friendly, why didn't I get good conversation back?" when in reality they probably asked you exactly the same things and maybe felt frustrated in the same way! A really important part of improving my social skills has been really noticing that people like to talk about themselves, (me included). You need to give people opportunities to talk about themselves, and be actually interested, not just asking a question for the sake of social nicety. Do not ask because you want to be asked back.

Learning to probe or tease out someone's answers so that you actually learn more about them and build some closeness is also key here. And also, I hate to say it, but don't fall into the trap of talking about yourself to fill conversation, it's super dull. And don't get your phone out! That probably just looked rude - if it had gotten to that point I would've made my excuses and left.

I say all this not as someone who has loads of female friends, but as someone who is trying generally to be a better friend overall. I think framing this stuff is so important and I am generally much better and happier when I look at how I can be a good friend to other people rather than how they can be a better friend to me.

I am getting a slight ND twinge from the way you express yourself OP, but obviously that's just a feeling.

I think many people have preferences to the type of friendship/ social situations they find most comfortable.
I prefer in depth, empathetic one on one friendships, but do fine in small groups <4.
I can do larger meet ups, but I am much more of a listener than an active participant. I tend to join in with big groups only if I feel comfortable with the plans, and would definitely only participate in what I was happy with, no going along with the crowd to please others.

Bigger groups have different players, all playing a role. Smaller groups function differently .

When you talk of asking the right questions, it seems like you are "acting a part" and that actually it isn't you. This is why I mentioned ND. I do this too but in other situations, not connected to friendships or relationships.

You have not read my comment and have rephrased what I said. Exactly the point I raised about people’s different interpretations …. You are being goady for no reason and it is unhelpful to op.

@Legselevens if that is directed at me, I quoted you directly, you referenced there being:

“Some really unkind and unhelpful comments” on this thread.

Perhaps you could point those out when you clarify how I have rephrased your comments.

there are a number of posters who have called out the misogyny (intentional or otherwise) in OPs posts and pointed out that exploring those thoughts is likely to be a really good place to start when considering why she is struggling and likely far more helpful than claiming other women are jealous

I'd say 6 reasonably close friends is not a small number. There is nothing wrong with wanting more friends but the fact that you don't have more doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with what you are doing.

PegasusReturns
And crucially pointing this out isn't proving the OP's point about women, nor is it being goady.

The way I see it as someone who understands what PP said about feeling like I run a different operating system, if I meet friends of friends/friends within a social circle and one of them says something nice, two approaches come to mind.
Option 1: thank them, reply to them, and progress the conversation like I would with any man or woman
Option 2: take this as fake, insincere and stay stuck in my mindset that women are so hard to get on with

One option is going to lead to smoother socialising than others.

Same in the playground or class WhatsApp group. If someone's being a bit of a attention seeking queen bee and trying to gather a pack.
Option 1: make a mental note that queen bee probably isn't my type of person, but I'm happy to be polite and maybe some of the other mums are more my type
Option 2: take this as proof that women are fake, high drama, emotional, gushy and then approach all interactions with the other mums from the view that I'm not like them.

Option 2 as an outlook is probably going to have a negative impact on social interactions.

Sometimes how we view situations and people says more about us than it does the other people.

Pegasus returns
You forgot to add that I also said. ‘Of course there are also some great and helpful comments’.
Do bore off …

You do have plenty of friends though?

You actually sound like a friend of mine who keeps moaning that she doesn't have a close friend and doesn't understand why people don't like her. She has loads of friends, myself included. But she wants that friend she can call and go for lunch every week etc. The problem is she's too intense and asking for too much. We're all mid to late 30s. I don't have time or energy for Sex and the City type friendships (do they even exist?). It actually comes across as extremely needy.

So I think you are unrealistic.

I didn't use to have many female friends until I got quite bad PND and really HAD to make friends to get through it.

I realised that I came across as standoffish with a moody face and closed off personality.
I am naturally private but had to force myself to open up to people and let my guard down. I arrange social things and accept invitations where before I would avoid it.

Thank god I made a group of good friends and when I learnt the trick of how to be around people I have made a load more. From being fairly alone and not really minding I now feel almost popular 😆I have made friends with all types of women in different walks of life that I wouldn't have before.

I think the key is really being honest with how you come across to people and working out how to be better. I definitely had to fake it till it came more naturally

@Legselevens

You forgot to add that I also said. ‘Of course there are also some great and helpful comments

And that’s utterly irrelevant unless I was suggesting that you had claimed everyone was being unhelpful. But I wasn’t.

You came on a thread full of almost exclusively lengthy, thoughtful advice - none of which was “really unhelpful” and make big pronunciations about posters being “really unkind”. When asked to clarify you accuse me of being really unkind.

then make up some nonsense about me rephrasing your posts.

I can really relate to the OP and am taking all the advice on this thread to heart! Lots and lots of good stuff to think about.

I can't believe someone could be so self-unaware that they would bemoan "unkind" posts and then post something like this.

I'm starting to think it's a wind up.

This ^

I'm great 1:1 or small group 1:3 but anything bigger than that I can't maintain and hence people find me incredibly different to socialise with. I can see how puzzled they are when they get me 1:1 versus in a group!

I have ADHD and ASC

Yes I find this style of communication false and grating, and don't understand it.

As noted earlier though, I have ADHD and ASC and groups can be a difficult thing for me.
I have an even mix of female and male friends but cannot cope with all of them being together. They are from different parts of my life and I rarely bring them together as it's stressful (they would have no reason to come together, different groups)x

I also have this - I can look very intense and serious which can be off putting , or I can look aloof, also off putting.

ADHD/ASC

Hi. That must’ve been really hard to write, leaving yourself open like that. I think you sound like you’ve lost a lot of love & confidence in yourself & perhaps that is all it is. You sound like the kind of person I’d love to sit and talk to.

i am blessed with a lot of friends but I do put a lot of effort into nurturing those relationships. The main things I do:

• check in regularly with them. Making it about them not me.
• no expectations from them. If they don’t want to attend my birthday party because they’re tired etc good for them. I never put any pressure on them.
• try to make them laugh, send funny links or silly videos to lift their day.
• be generous with my time (but not to the detriment of myself).
• know myself and my worth - I’m naturally confident with who I am and what I will put up with. I have a lot of self respect.

I’m one of those people who would stop you in the street to tell you your hair looks good (my kids find me so annoying when they see me doing this) but I do genuinely feel a lot of love for myself and others and I want to share it, apart from last night when I had PMT & was a bit arsey! 😉

Maybe work on loving yourself more (affirmations, meditation?) and let your silly side out more then let that shit shine through. 🌞