To ask-If you have a lot of girl friends, what is your secret?

[LKF01]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this thread or called a misogynist or something, but I'm genuinely feeling really down about my lack of friends. In the words of Taylor Swift, it's me, I'm the problem, it's me!!

For reference, I do have girl friends, I have about 6 friends that I've been friends with for years and that I see individually (as they don't know one another) regularly for dinner/ drinks etc, but I would like more. I'd like to socialise with someone each week, at the moment, I see one friend probably every 3 weeks on average and I'm starting to feel lonely, where I haven't before.

However, I have found and this is the honest truth (and if you can't be truthful on an anonymous forum, when can you be?) that women just don't seem to like me 😳 It's an issue I've had my whole life. I don't have the same problem with men and am more at ease around them (which I know probably helps).

I seem to piss women off, not so much one on one but if there's a group of women, I'll always be the one on the periphery and if there's say 3 of us, the other 2 after an hour or so will appear closer and irritated with me.

Our neighbour had a drinks evening a couple of weeks ago with us and two other couples. There were 2 women there from the village that I've known for years, have had evenings down the pub with them, drunken BBQ's in the summer etc and tbh, I always thought we were friends, or good acquaintances. However, I don't know what I did but after an hour or so, they just seemed unfriendly, going off together in another room constantly, if we were in the same room they'd talk between themselves and leave me out of the conversation completely. One of them was abrasive and a bit snappy with me all evening.

I just sat there in the end with the men, who were talking about stuff that I had no interest in, on my phone or sat there in silence when these other 2 women were sat next to me but one with their back to me so it was obvious I wasn't particularly welcome to join in their conversation and when I tried, got a lacklustre response. Neither of them asked me anything all evening, even though I hadn't seen them both for a couple of months. I took an interest in both their lives and they answered me, but didn't reciprocate, which is unusual for them.

I don't know, I could give you 100's of examples over the years of women just not taking to me.

I can tell you what I'm not:

Gushy- I don't gush over other women, complimenting them all the time or telling them how amazing they are in a way I see other women doing. If a friend is going through a hard time or whatever then I'll say something nice in context, but on the whole I find the fawning and gushing that a lot of women seem to do with one another quite fake and nauseating and I certainly don't expect it from other people. If I love someone's dress/ coat/ bag / hairstyle or whatever then I'll say so, but I don't just randomly give out compliments.

Maternal- Despite having 2 children (twins, otherwise I'd have been OAD!) and loving them with every fibre of my being, I've never been maternal and honestly? I have little interest in other people's children. I AM that woman at gatherings with kids who avoids them as much as I can and doesn't really make an effort with them. I'll interact with them a tiny bit, but generally I'm avoiding them. I know that some women dislike me for this, but I'm just not good with other people's children and don't enjoy the interaction so limit it. I do however make an effort for friend's children, I try and interact with them more and I always ask about them when I'm with my friends.

Sweet- I don't think I could be described as sweet (and I appreciate a lot of women aren't to be fair, I know this is a lazy stereotype but I do find a lot of women quite 'sweet' for want of a better word) but my sense of humour is generally quite lad bibley (fb/Instagram page/ feed for anyone who doesn't know) quite dry and sometimes sarcy. Favourite comedian is Ricky Gervais. I'd say I have more of a 'male' sense of humour, or perhaps that men just appreciate it more.

I appreciate there is some generalisations with the above and I don't mean any offence, I'm trying to really look at myself and decipher why it could be that women are put off me.

One thing I do is always take an interest in the other person, I always ask people how they are, how's work going, how are the kids getting on in school/ their hobbies etc. I do worry sometimes that people will think I'm interviewing them?

I've found over the last 5-6 years (probably since I've had DC and have been sleep deprived/ my brain seems to have gone on a permanent holiday!) that I have seemed to lose the art of conversation a bit, I find I struggle to make general chit chat and rely on questions to get conversations going/ sustain them. I'm wondering if that's where I'm going wrong, but I just don't seem to remember how to just chat without asking questions 😳

Can anyone help? If you have loads of girl friends, what are the things that other women seem to be attracted to you for? What makes you a good friend?

I don’t think you come across as a “not like the other girls” type. More just that you don’t get on with these particular women at the drinks party.
I think I understand what you mean though, I’m not “gushy” either. I’ve never been peppy and struggle with showing a lot of emotion, it’s just how I am, I’ve always been a bit dead pan. If you remember Daria from the cartoon, that is me!
I have some close female friends, the thing is, they’re all like me! So perhaps friendships can be like dating in that we all have a type?
I have a lot of male friends which I think is down to having what I guess you described as male humour, but I don’t want to hang out with men all the time as I also need and enjoy the company of women. I’ve been able to make more female friendships in recent years and whilst I’m not super close with all of them I still feel welcome on nights out, dinner, coffee meetings etc. The thing is though is that you have to make an effort with people, find some common ground to bond over, remember to pay a compliment, ask how they are, big them up. It’s hard for people like you and me but fake it till you make it, as they say!

I think you sound nice and quite self-aware, @LKF01 - you obviously think deeply about this and are trying hard to figure out what to do better. I think you might start with a side-by-side friendship like a walking buddy or some other activity where the conversation is not the primary purpose of the meet-up. It’s just soft skills, and letting other people get to know you so you get a chance to be listened to too. I know it’s always suggested but a hobby group that meets regularly eoupd probably be great gif you and take the pressure off how you feel you’re being perceived. I’m sorry you are lonely 🌼

Incidentally, women are not false, two faced and bitchy. Some people are. And school gate mums are not a different species.

I definitely have. Plenty of my male friends (and indeed DP) have talked about how much they hate the stereotypically laddish beer/girls/football culture and how they feel alienated by it.

But what you outline there isn't "not like the other men", it's "I don't enjoy a particular subculture that some men are part of". That's different. Acknowledging you don't have something in common with some people is fine.

There's a difference between

A) I'm not like the men who are generally into lad culture and beer
Vs
B) I'm not like the other men.

A is perfectly sensible.
B would be stupid and a sign that the man seems to think he has a special essence that isn't like the other men (who he assumes are all into serial dating, football, sports and beer, who are tough and rough, and rational and not creative and do manly things). If a man followed it up with claims that he isn't like the other men because men can't have a decent conversation, men are jealous, men are always in competition and looking for a fight, men are rubbish at supporting each other and he just gets on so much better with women so maybe that's why the other men don't like him, he's going to sound self-absorbed.

Same for women:
A) I don't tend to get on with women who enjoyed getting glammed up for girls nights out.
Vs
B) I'm not like the other girls

A is reasonable.A acknowledges people have different interests.

B would be stupid because there's no specific essence of womanhood and women saying B usually follow it up with sexist claims that women are high maintenance, hard to get on with, insecure, jealous, emotional and so on.

Being neurodiverse and feeling like a square peg in some situations is not like being "not like the other women" because womanhood is huge and that includes many expressions of neurodiversity.

"not gushy" You've said this behaviour feels fake to you, but to a lot of women, they enjoy compliments and have realised that if they enjoy receiving them, other women must, as well. So they engage in this activity. Find something you like about someone and compliment them on it. Even if it's just an 'oh that colour looks great on you!' (highly suggest only doing this if that colour does, indeed, look great on them) I admit I forget to do this sometimes, myself, but when I do it with co-workers honestly I can tell they really enjoy it. It's no skin off my back and it makes them smile. Win-win!

"not maternal" well honestly, my family would probably say neither am I 😄 However I do enjoy talking about DS a bit, therefore I know other mums must also welcome a bit of a chance to gush about their children's current amazing achievement and/or ridiculous behaviour. We don't do it for long, but asking after someone's family shows that you care about them. If I love my friends, then I usually love hearing about their children (IN REASONABLE AMOUNTS).

"not sweet" I am quite dry and am a fan of wearing large amounts of black. I can't imagine anyone describing me as sweet. However, I am a good and supportive friend and I rarely lack for people to chat to even if I'm thrown into a new group of mutual-friend type friends.

Stop going into these situations thinking about how different you are. Start thinking about what you appreciate in a friend, and be that person. It helps a lot.

Ha ha, that's me too. Most of my close friends say they found me stand offish when they first met me. In my head I'm anything but, however I guess that's how I come across.

How were female friendships modelled to you?
Did your mum have a big circle of female friends?
Mine didn't and as much as I'd like to, I haven't managed to create or be part of one either.

Well I’m not gushy Interested in young children, now mine are adults or particularly sweet,
I have some friends but I have known them years. I met them either at uni or the early days of having babies and toddlers.
i am interested in art, swimming , ancient history visiting old ruins and watching a lot of TV .

i am also interested in other people I love talking/ listening to people so that helps.
i don’t mind being friends with women who don’t have exactly the same interests as me as they all have unique interests of their own.
One thing though, I don’t expect my friends to be a free counsellor or prop or helpmate.

Just seen you have 6 friends, I think you’re doing pretty well , don’t overthink it, enjoy the company of the women that you already have.

I am not gushy, maternal or sweet

i am the one who usually keeps in touch, people think I'm funny (ha ha not peculiar) i can chat about most things

i dunno really

I haven't got a big group of friends either. One friend in the whole world. Many acquaintances. Close to my mum and my husband.

I can't do small talk, probably a bit neurodivergent, can smell bullshit a mile away.

I don't think you're BU OP. Ibjust question why you want more friends. Six is enough, surely?

When I think about autism for instance, I think about that awful channel 4 show The Undateables that used to be on years ago. I know there is a spectrum of autism, but there must be people that are only slightly autistic and present mostly as NT?

• *If you express ignorant opinions like this in real life, I can see why people might be disinclined to pursue a friendship with you, @LKF01.

@MichaelAndEagle

this is what I was getting at upthread: what did the OP learn from childhood about friendships, male / female characteristics etc.? Because her ideas seem very stereotyped, both male and female.

My mum taught me that female friends are the best, that they are worthwhile and fun and supportive. That you get out what you put in with friendships. She also taught me that even though DHs are important, they can’t be everything, and that friends are always important too and it’s a good idea to have plenty of them around. She is absolutely not sweet or gushy 🙄 and after 45 years as a primary teacher is as far from maternal / gushy over children as you can get 😂

my dad OTOH hates laddish behaviour. He loathes Ricky Gervais type of humour, would not see the point of LadBible bollocks, and has no interest the kind of banter / direct talk the OP seems to ascribe to males.

Some really unkind and unhelpful comments on here and that does prove some of op’s point about (some) women. Of course there are also some great and helpful comments. ‘People’ are so complex and diverse with quirks and anomalies. They can see conversations and interactions so differently. I think it’s about being more confident in yourself, your anxiety about reading situations may be hindering you. You are never going to please everyone all of the time. Think of hobbies and interests. Be yourself, like yourself.

I’m in a similar situation to you ie. Having maybe eight individual friends who I see individually and not very often (especially now as I’ve moved three hours away from most of them). Some of them are men.

I think I get on really well with women but I prefer seeing them individually because I like to connect properly and that’s difficult with more than one person. I’ve always been shy in groups and I don’t enjoy the conversation. Some groups of women are bitchy (that’s not internalised misogyny - it’s just a fact) and some won’t like you if you’re attractive in a sexy sort of way.

I enjoy a mutual counselling session.

I’m sweet but not gushy and I fear I’m like a walking self-help book🤣

eek, I would be pretty happy if I had 6 friends who I met regularly! Obviously there are extrovert social butterfly people who have lots and lots of friends, but do other people not think 6 friends, meeting regularly, is quite a lot? How many do most people have? I am a shy, socially awkward, maybe too thoughtless introvert but I also have 3 kids, a dh and a full time job, so very little time to invest in friendship. I haven’t made any friends from the kid’s school, for example. Am I even more of an outlier than I thought?!

In my experience most women like having attractive female friends. Kate Moss is hardly short of female friends is she?

I'm the same. I guess I ask questions too.
And people want to be entertained. Women want more to and fro. More stories and fun. Men are happier to give the stories. Why not invite uiur 6 women out together? See if you can get a group going.

Puppalicious

2018/2019 I probably had 40 or so, now its about 20

they have dropped off for various reasons 😀 mainly people being busy

You didn't like the gushy woman taking over the leader queen bee role. I definitely can resonate with that. My DD's primary was nice, some gushing, but mostly lovely. One queen bee type but we navigated round that.
I do think female groups are very hard.

Wise words.

I was coming to this conclusion too. I think you maybe are overthinking it all and maybe lacking confidence, which is maybe making it awkward/unnatural...

Six good friends is great. What attracted you to these women, what kind of people are they? Do they have any traits in common? (Not questions for the thread, but for yourself, to help you recognise potential future kindred spirits.)

Just to add that giving compliments can be a real icebreaker / way through people’s natural defences, and it doesn’t have to be fake or gushy. Telling someone you admired the way they handled, say, a tricky situation or complimenting them on the manners of their children (even if you’re not a huge fan of kids - I’m not either, which means the ones who are pleasant to be around really stand out! 😄) not in an effusive way but just a simple, sincere statement can often predispose them to think favourably of you afterwards, and from there friendships can grow.

I do agree that it feels like you’ve become habituated to self-analysing your part in every interaction, which is understandable but can hamper your ability to unconsciously “sell” yourself as a potential friend to others. Try to focus outwards a little more - as a PP said, concentrate on being a truly active listener, for instance. That’s a rare skill and one that some people will really value in a friend.

@Legselevens curious where you’re seeing the “really unkind and unhelpful comments”.

I think people have given a lot of really clear feedback/advice on this thread.

If you read my thread I also said there were helpful comments PegasusReturns. You have also verified my point.

Is the weight of expectation impacting how you interact with women?
So you now over-analyse every interaction with women who are potential female friends? Could this be coming across to women when you engage with them? Where as when you are chatting to the men, you aren't thinking about whether they want to be friends, if they like you, if they think you are cool, and therefore your interactions with them are much more relaxed and natural?

Just because a a woman is roughly the same age, lives in the same village and is also a mum doesn't mean they are good friend material. Good acquaintance material, yes. Someone to chat to during kids sports clubs, yes. Someone to ask when recycling day is or when Xmas jumper day is.

But what is that you like and value in a proper friend?