To ask-If you have a lot of girl friends, what is your secret?

[LKF01]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this thread or called a misogynist or something, but I'm genuinely feeling really down about my lack of friends. In the words of Taylor Swift, it's me, I'm the problem, it's me!!

For reference, I do have girl friends, I have about 6 friends that I've been friends with for years and that I see individually (as they don't know one another) regularly for dinner/ drinks etc, but I would like more. I'd like to socialise with someone each week, at the moment, I see one friend probably every 3 weeks on average and I'm starting to feel lonely, where I haven't before.

However, I have found and this is the honest truth (and if you can't be truthful on an anonymous forum, when can you be?) that women just don't seem to like me 😳 It's an issue I've had my whole life. I don't have the same problem with men and am more at ease around them (which I know probably helps).

I seem to piss women off, not so much one on one but if there's a group of women, I'll always be the one on the periphery and if there's say 3 of us, the other 2 after an hour or so will appear closer and irritated with me.

Our neighbour had a drinks evening a couple of weeks ago with us and two other couples. There were 2 women there from the village that I've known for years, have had evenings down the pub with them, drunken BBQ's in the summer etc and tbh, I always thought we were friends, or good acquaintances. However, I don't know what I did but after an hour or so, they just seemed unfriendly, going off together in another room constantly, if we were in the same room they'd talk between themselves and leave me out of the conversation completely. One of them was abrasive and a bit snappy with me all evening.

I just sat there in the end with the men, who were talking about stuff that I had no interest in, on my phone or sat there in silence when these other 2 women were sat next to me but one with their back to me so it was obvious I wasn't particularly welcome to join in their conversation and when I tried, got a lacklustre response. Neither of them asked me anything all evening, even though I hadn't seen them both for a couple of months. I took an interest in both their lives and they answered me, but didn't reciprocate, which is unusual for them.

I don't know, I could give you 100's of examples over the years of women just not taking to me.

I can tell you what I'm not:

Gushy- I don't gush over other women, complimenting them all the time or telling them how amazing they are in a way I see other women doing. If a friend is going through a hard time or whatever then I'll say something nice in context, but on the whole I find the fawning and gushing that a lot of women seem to do with one another quite fake and nauseating and I certainly don't expect it from other people. If I love someone's dress/ coat/ bag / hairstyle or whatever then I'll say so, but I don't just randomly give out compliments.

Maternal- Despite having 2 children (twins, otherwise I'd have been OAD!) and loving them with every fibre of my being, I've never been maternal and honestly? I have little interest in other people's children. I AM that woman at gatherings with kids who avoids them as much as I can and doesn't really make an effort with them. I'll interact with them a tiny bit, but generally I'm avoiding them. I know that some women dislike me for this, but I'm just not good with other people's children and don't enjoy the interaction so limit it. I do however make an effort for friend's children, I try and interact with them more and I always ask about them when I'm with my friends.

Sweet- I don't think I could be described as sweet (and I appreciate a lot of women aren't to be fair, I know this is a lazy stereotype but I do find a lot of women quite 'sweet' for want of a better word) but my sense of humour is generally quite lad bibley (fb/Instagram page/ feed for anyone who doesn't know) quite dry and sometimes sarcy. Favourite comedian is Ricky Gervais. I'd say I have more of a 'male' sense of humour, or perhaps that men just appreciate it more.

I appreciate there is some generalisations with the above and I don't mean any offence, I'm trying to really look at myself and decipher why it could be that women are put off me.

One thing I do is always take an interest in the other person, I always ask people how they are, how's work going, how are the kids getting on in school/ their hobbies etc. I do worry sometimes that people will think I'm interviewing them?

I've found over the last 5-6 years (probably since I've had DC and have been sleep deprived/ my brain seems to have gone on a permanent holiday!) that I have seemed to lose the art of conversation a bit, I find I struggle to make general chit chat and rely on questions to get conversations going/ sustain them. I'm wondering if that's where I'm going wrong, but I just don't seem to remember how to just chat without asking questions 😳

Can anyone help? If you have loads of girl friends, what are the things that other women seem to be attracted to you for? What makes you a good friend?

I completely get what you mean, OP. I feel the same but I have few good friends.

there are a few books out there on the subject that you could try.

Why don't you organise a social event - drinks, etc with a couple or female friends you like. We do this regularly with other couples. I also see my female friends regularly for spa dates, dinners/ lunch, weekends away/ short trips here or abroad. Our friends will also come when invited to sports days or school events for the children, birthdays etc.

Normal people or those who are also looking for friends or enjoy your company will reciprocate.

I also couldn't say I am sweet - just normal. I do love my friends dearly though and support them when and where needed. We will always go out of our way to attend important events - especially those meaningful to them, no matter how inconvenient to us as they always show up for us. I also know my best friends' parents and if I am in the area I will visit them and they are lovely people and love seeing us.

We don't see our friends as often as it sounds because they are very busy and so are we. Neither of us are needy but when we do meet up everything is as though we saw them yesterday.

There's an app for making mum friends OP, perhaps start there. You will always find people you get on with via hobbies, work, children's activities/ school. You won't get along with or like everyone and vice versa.

FYI OP - I do not have a huge amount of friends - maybe 4-5 female friends and 2 very close ones and about 5 couples.

Rather than focus on what you don’t like about other women and why you think they don’t like you, can you think of a woman in your life who attracts other people, who people genuinely like and are pleased to see, the sort of woman very few people have a bad word to say about? What makes them that way? If that woman is a friend of yours, why are they a good friend? What qualities is it they have which seem to be universally attractive?

@upwardsonwards - my dd was like yours at school. Always on the periphery of groups and found it really hard to make friends with other girls. dD now going through Adhd diagnosis and is probably autistic as well, albeit very high functioning so not even sure she’d reach the threshold, but at uni she has found her people.

I'm like you, OP. I have some traditionally feminine interests (I'm huge big into fashion) but my demeanour is not at all girly. I am a very straightforward, no bullshit person and that can be offputting to some women as we tend to be socialised to be quite fake. One thing I will say as well is that six good friends is actually quite a lot. I have half that number plus my husband (whom I consider to be my best friend) and I am not lonely or lacking. I am a hard introvert, though, so appreciate that you may be different in that respect.

I struggle with making and maintaining friends and like many others on here I'm late in life diagnosed neurodiverse.

For myself I felt I was struggling 'because I'm not like other girls' but I suspect now it was a combination of neurotypicals 'sniffing me out' and the fact my foot likes to live in my mouth. I also don't maintain friendships very well (a bit out of sight out of mind).

I'm a bit lonely so it's the blind leading the blind here, but the friendships I have kept tend to be either neurodiverse themselves, very patient in judgemental people or people I see sparingly and mask.

Funny enough your posts made me bristle but that's my prickly black and white thinking and I've had to train myself to approach things from another perspective. Much easier to do online, but a useful skill.

I don't think you are ND. Why not look for special interest groups like book clubs, sports groups or volunteering at heritage sites? That way you can skip the boring convos about other people's children.

I've always found it easy to make friends, male and female. But in terms of a "crew" who I see on a weekly+ basis, that didn't happen until we moved out of London to an estate where there are lots of neighbours and locals from different backgrounds with similarly aged children to ours. It's not just about clicking with people, it's about them being nearby and convenient for meeting up. Maybe look closer to home? I see my best and oldest friends monthly or less because we're not that physically close and busy.

FWIW OP - I cannot bear the type of 'gushy' you went into further detail about (the whatsapp group stuff). In all honesty, I think the majority of grown women cringe at it!
But, that said, there is someone in my close friendship group exactly like that & I choose to overlook it as she has other lovely qualities and I've known her and been in a friendship group with her since school.

It does sound a bit like you are specifically talking about finding 'mum' friends... would that be correct? Or has it always been like this?

Mum friends are tricky. I made many, on a surface level, but only really found my true mum friends, ones I truly connect with, later on.

But, that said, there is someone in my close friendship group exactly like that & I choose to overlook it as she has other lovely qualities

Yes, this! I was going to say, OP, I hate the "you're amazing mamma's" stuff too. But the people who say that stuff are normally genuinely saying it to be kind, because they think (not unreasonably) that it might be nice to hear that you're getting stuff right as a parent (or whatever). I think learning to look at the intention behind stuff like that helped me to befriend some really amazing women who I might have avoided for totally superficial reasons previously.

@LKF01 do you smile and look approachable? There are some women (and men) that seem to be unaware that give off standoffish vibes, with resting bitch face or a general expression of disinterestedness. I am not suggesting you be fake, but when people are just getting to know each other they generally like light, positive conversation. If people seem very serious or with little expression it can come across as cold and unwelcoming.

To answer your question op no an autism or ADHD diagnosis doesn't change anything other than your self awareness.

For example I'm autistic/ADHD but very 'high functioning' in old money. This means the subtle things that mean I struggle to make friends are: resting bitch face, inability to control the volume of my voice, black and white thinking makes me a bit 'passionate' and unable to tailor that to the occasion unless I consciously do so. I also dress how I want and in my youth didn't do 'humble' at all which I think might be where the 'too pretty for friends' myth comes from. People thought I was vain and overconfident but it was a combination of being clueless and masking. Funny story I actually have hideous self esteem and rejection issues but there you do.

Anyway, self awareness is a tool, but also a curse and not a magic fix but perhaps a starting point if it rings true for you.

Some key points, here. You say you 'show' an interest, not that you ARE interested. You worry about what people think of YOU. You aren't, in fact, thinking about the other person at all. You are only thinking about how you come across to them.
Try genuinely not actually thinking about yourself, how you are coming across, etc, but actually listening to the answers, and whilst listening, don't be thinking of what YOU will say next,but what THEY are saying now.
You are far from alone in this habit of only being really interested in yourself. It's one of my own biggest failings. A lot of people spend the time whilst others are talking arranging what they will say next, rather than fully focussing on the person talking. People who listen properly are terribly rare.
It's hard to do, but when you interact with others, take your mental focus off yourself and place it firmly on them. Not your worries about how you come across. Not your next question.

Thank you for this, it's really useful advice and I've taken all of it on board x

Any mention/hint of Ricky Gervais or questions about work would put me right off. As would random sarcasm tbh, unless you're a teenager. The most boring and uninteresting question I think people can ask is, "What do you do for a living?"

Unfortunately I do have a really moody/ resting bitch face. My whole life I've been asked 'what's wrong with you?' by people when there's been absolutely nothing wrong and I'm really happy 😂

I have, however, tried to rearrange my face to SHOW my happiness in the last couple of years and I don't get those comments so much now. I did catch sight of myself on a video once though, interacting with friends (another friend was videoing) and I wasn't smiling half as broadly as I thought I was 😳

I've never really had a decent group of friends - just fleeting friendships that barely stand the test of time, I'm not the person people think of when they need advice or want to hang out unless there are conditions attached. I have daughters so I always tell them they are my best friends - they show me so much unconditional love that I couldn't get from a mere female friend. So for once I am ok being practically friendless.

Just so you know op, neurodiverse people often have a neutral or 'resting bitch face'. I've been told off for mine my entire life and it's only at my child's autism assessment it clued me in that this is not standard.

I know someone will be along to berate me for mentioning neurodiverse soon but a lot of what you've said seems classic au/ADHD to me.

OP - my initial thought is jealously.
Are you very intelligent (posts suggest so to me) or very attractive?
Women can be intimidated by either. If you’re both then some (not all!) women will be put off.

@ConcealDontFeelPutonaShow that's interesting. I am currently in training for a new career and one of the women in our class can do and say some off putting things that don't endear her to others.
In conversation she told me that she believes she is on the autism spectrum as she has so many traits but has never been diagnosed.

Examples of her behavior:

• When criticized for having a coffee cup in a workroom by a lecturer (we know this is not allowed) she immediately called out another woman who had done the same
• she will be what Professor Snape called Hermoine "an insufferable know-it-all", in that she will constantly ask questions and say things to show off her knowledge. But we have all been learning the same material and know and understand what she does, just because we don't say it a lot doesn't mean she is the only one who has paid attention.
• in any conversation she joins, any topic discussed she will bring back to herself and her experiences and life but in a Debbie Downer way. She doesn't seem to read the room and know to keep things light and fun.
• she also doesn't recognize that everyone is cutting her a lot of slack and being very patient and understanding.

There is generally a big lack of social awareness. We are a great group so we are all kind and considerate. I also think underneath it she is very insecure and has said some very judgemental things about herself. So I try and give her a compliment whenever I can as she is a good student and very exacting in reproducing skills we have been taught. I also explain we are all learning and when our tutor is tough she is tough on us all.

I have lots of friends and I find it easy to make friends.

I LOVE women (not in that way!) and I think that’s the difference between you and me? I am dead pleased to see them - you call it gushy, I call it affectionate! I love hugging them and chatting about their lives, kids, jobs etc. We laugh, joke, speak too loudly, talk about politics, current affairs with good humour and support each other when the shit hits the fan. You may be coming across as cold and uninterested which would put me off tbh.

However you have six lovely friends so you must be a good friend op.

The neighbours were probably super close and had a lot to catch up on, that’s what I would assume. Although they were still rude to do that!

@LKF01 I am glad. It's a piece of advice I had that l found very helpful, myself. I, too, worry about how I come across a lot. I was bullied badly in school and my first job and it affected my relationship with others for a long time, because I couldn't stop thinking about how others thought of ME.
Now, when I think of the people in my life, I think more about THEM. The funny thing they said. The books they read. What I could do to help them feel better when they are down. What they like to read/watch/do as opposed to what I like to read/watch/do. It's taken a lot of the anxiety out of friendship, for me.

Yes, I also think 6 good friends is a great number.

6 is a good number. It's harder to make friends these days because of social media.