To ask-If you have a lot of girl friends, what is your secret?

[LKF01]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this thread or called a misogynist or something, but I'm genuinely feeling really down about my lack of friends. In the words of Taylor Swift, it's me, I'm the problem, it's me!!

For reference, I do have girl friends, I have about 6 friends that I've been friends with for years and that I see individually (as they don't know one another) regularly for dinner/ drinks etc, but I would like more. I'd like to socialise with someone each week, at the moment, I see one friend probably every 3 weeks on average and I'm starting to feel lonely, where I haven't before.

However, I have found and this is the honest truth (and if you can't be truthful on an anonymous forum, when can you be?) that women just don't seem to like me 😳 It's an issue I've had my whole life. I don't have the same problem with men and am more at ease around them (which I know probably helps).

I seem to piss women off, not so much one on one but if there's a group of women, I'll always be the one on the periphery and if there's say 3 of us, the other 2 after an hour or so will appear closer and irritated with me.

Our neighbour had a drinks evening a couple of weeks ago with us and two other couples. There were 2 women there from the village that I've known for years, have had evenings down the pub with them, drunken BBQ's in the summer etc and tbh, I always thought we were friends, or good acquaintances. However, I don't know what I did but after an hour or so, they just seemed unfriendly, going off together in another room constantly, if we were in the same room they'd talk between themselves and leave me out of the conversation completely. One of them was abrasive and a bit snappy with me all evening.

I just sat there in the end with the men, who were talking about stuff that I had no interest in, on my phone or sat there in silence when these other 2 women were sat next to me but one with their back to me so it was obvious I wasn't particularly welcome to join in their conversation and when I tried, got a lacklustre response. Neither of them asked me anything all evening, even though I hadn't seen them both for a couple of months. I took an interest in both their lives and they answered me, but didn't reciprocate, which is unusual for them.

I don't know, I could give you 100's of examples over the years of women just not taking to me.

I can tell you what I'm not:

Gushy- I don't gush over other women, complimenting them all the time or telling them how amazing they are in a way I see other women doing. If a friend is going through a hard time or whatever then I'll say something nice in context, but on the whole I find the fawning and gushing that a lot of women seem to do with one another quite fake and nauseating and I certainly don't expect it from other people. If I love someone's dress/ coat/ bag / hairstyle or whatever then I'll say so, but I don't just randomly give out compliments.

Maternal- Despite having 2 children (twins, otherwise I'd have been OAD!) and loving them with every fibre of my being, I've never been maternal and honestly? I have little interest in other people's children. I AM that woman at gatherings with kids who avoids them as much as I can and doesn't really make an effort with them. I'll interact with them a tiny bit, but generally I'm avoiding them. I know that some women dislike me for this, but I'm just not good with other people's children and don't enjoy the interaction so limit it. I do however make an effort for friend's children, I try and interact with them more and I always ask about them when I'm with my friends.

Sweet- I don't think I could be described as sweet (and I appreciate a lot of women aren't to be fair, I know this is a lazy stereotype but I do find a lot of women quite 'sweet' for want of a better word) but my sense of humour is generally quite lad bibley (fb/Instagram page/ feed for anyone who doesn't know) quite dry and sometimes sarcy. Favourite comedian is Ricky Gervais. I'd say I have more of a 'male' sense of humour, or perhaps that men just appreciate it more.

I appreciate there is some generalisations with the above and I don't mean any offence, I'm trying to really look at myself and decipher why it could be that women are put off me.

One thing I do is always take an interest in the other person, I always ask people how they are, how's work going, how are the kids getting on in school/ their hobbies etc. I do worry sometimes that people will think I'm interviewing them?

I've found over the last 5-6 years (probably since I've had DC and have been sleep deprived/ my brain seems to have gone on a permanent holiday!) that I have seemed to lose the art of conversation a bit, I find I struggle to make general chit chat and rely on questions to get conversations going/ sustain them. I'm wondering if that's where I'm going wrong, but I just don't seem to remember how to just chat without asking questions 😳

Can anyone help? If you have loads of girl friends, what are the things that other women seem to be attracted to you for? What makes you a good friend?

TBH OP you sound like my perfect friend!

I resonate so much with your post, I've always been described as 'laddish' is my manorisms, humour and interests. I also have zero interest in other peoples children despite having my own, and also am fairly attractive.

Are you me?!

I also get that sense of loneliness too, i have a group of 4 friends but it all feels superficial. I have 1 friend who i truely feel i can be myself around and do thankfully see a lot but without her i would feel quite alone despite surrounded.

If you are anything like me i'm guessing your usually fairly confident in yourself - partnered with being attractive and not finding common ground/interests does make people like us difficult to connect with. We only seem to connect with eachother if that makes sense. It might just be the people your meeting - if it feels forced and uncomfrtable, then that click just isnt there.

Advice wise - i don't really know how to help, if you have to diminish your personality to make a friend then it will never be a real friend. You just have to hope you have to bumble into another you!

Thinking about the party, what was the overall vibe and formality like?Some of my friends host dinner parties and people dress in cocktail type clothing. Other friends host parties and the norm is men in jeans/chinos and a jumper, women in jeans and a nice top, casual dress with leggings.

If someone showed up to the second type of event all glammed up it would be unusual. Even friends who are well put together on a daily basis know the difference between the two types of social event and adapt accordingly.

I don't think giving someone a compliment is negative, I compliment my friends as stated in the OP, but it's proportionate to the relationship that I have with that person and in context, not OTT as I wouldn't want it to come across as insincere or fake. Some of the examples that I'm reflecting on aren't like that.

For example one lady in my DC's class when they started reception, bear in mind we all didn't know each other at this point and the mum's whatsapp group had only just been started the day before, was messaging the group saying 'Can I just say, all you Mumma's are absolutely AMAZING, never forget that, I just KNOW we're all going to be lifelong friends'

A couple of weeks later when one of the mum's missed something on the group because she was having a busy time at work, the same lady 'Just remember we all love you so much and are here for you anytime lovely. You ROCK' This lady is now the 'queen bee' if you like of the group and EVERYONE sucks up to her. I just find it all so fake, you don't know her? Why on earth would you be writing gushy messages like that?! And if someone who I didn't know wrote something like that to me, I would think they were a bit fake. Yet it seems this type of person is the type that has lots of women queuing up to be their friend. I've seen and noticed it so many times.

OK, so either you are trying to be friends with people that just aren't 'your people' - I wouldn't choose to hang out with people who were 'gushing' or 'sweet' from your description, or with people who judged me because I'd rather hang out with the adults than the kids - but equally I imagine that someone who is like that might find someone who is the complete opposite to not be their choice of friend either. Or you're feeling like you're different/insecure and giving off vibes that they are reading that as superior.

OP you say you do have a handful of good friends. Do you think you could ask them to review you, as it were? What do they love about you, did they always want to be your friend, what aspects of your personality were or are trickier to get past? You’ve said several times that you think you worry too much about trying to come across well and how other people perceive you - but the thing about this is that you may well be working with the entirely wrong material.

My recent hen weekend and my wedding were singular experiences where I actually got to find out exactly what my friends see in me: loads of them voluntarily and without any prompting or expectation on my part wanted to stand up and say really nice things. I learned all kinds of stuff about how I’m perceived and what friends love about me - and quite a lot of it wasn’t at all what I’d have thought attracted people to me! If you’re worrying about how you’re perceived yet actually focussing on putting across the parts of yourself which really aren’t important to others or actually turn them off, that’s a big misstep.

Well there was only 6 of us, so party is the wrong word. I certainty wasn't dressed up, jeans and a (slightly sparkly Christmas) jumper. The only difference between me and the other 2 women is I had make up on and my hair down and had straightened it (as it was a frizzy mess beforehand) I wear minimal/ natural make up, a bit of mascara, bronzer on my cheeks and concealer under my eyes, tinted lip balm, so I'd hardly slapped it on.

See, that wouldn't bother me because I wouldn't particularly want to be part of a group that was that OOT and gushing. I'd find the person in the room who rolled their eyes at those comments and be friends with her...

I would actually love to go on a reality tv programme (I wouldn't ever do it!) purely so I could see how I come across to other people and what the general population would think of me.

I'd rather claw my own eyes out than ask my friend's where I could be going wrong, so humiliating though I appreciate it would be a solution.

Yes, so would I. Except NONE of them rolled their eyes, they all followed with similar both times which just left me thinking wtf? It also left me thinking, obviously that type of BS is what people want and like I say, whilst I do compliment my friends, unless I really, truly know someone, I will not be saying things like that and if that means I don't have a good group of girl friends then so be it. I want to be myself, not have people like me because I'm portraying a fake version of myself.

Hi OP, I've read all your posts and one thing that comes across is that you're very focused on yourself. I understand that this is partly because of what the topic of the thread is, but I did get the feeling that you are quite inward focused. Maybe if you re-read your posts you'll see what I mean?

Do you want friends or do you want reassurance OP?

People don't like me either and it bothered me for many years until I discovered that I am autistic and have adhd, there's actually a study that shows that neurotypical people actually instinctively dislike nd people literally within minutes of meeting them. They can sense that there is something different about nd individuals. It's was a light bulb moment for me and made me feel so much better to know why.

I would hate gushing people around me and I don't think anything you've described yourself as would be a barrier to making more female friends.

Im very similar, like similar comedy, not maternal etc. I do however, have warmth. I may not be maternal but I can extend warmth to kids and engage with them, just like others.
Being warm doesn't mean I'm a pushover though.

All my friends are strong, independent women. They are attractive too and interesting. Being interesting is pretty important to finding friends.

Thinking that women don't like strong/masculine or attractive women is rubbish. They often attract more attention.

I'm genuinely not trying to be obtuse here, but could you elaborate a bit more?

Just this. You sound very hard work. Chill out and ask nice questions, show interest in others.

Did you miss the part where I said I CONSTANTLY ask other people questions, about how they are, their work, their kids, house renovations etc. If there's one thing I do do is show an interest in other people, to the extent that I worry sometimes that people will think I'm interviewing them.

I don't have a lot of friends as I have moved around too much, so maybe I am disqualified, but you do come across slightly superior. Of the friends I do have, none of them gush, or are particularly maternal, or much nicer than men. This idea that only men like Ricky Gervaise.... well. I like him.

There are a lot of posts like these and otherposters always claim to not like the usual "woman things" like shopping, reality TV, gossip ( I know you didn't say this). But IRL, none of my women friends like shopping or reality tv. Many of them like reading, sports, politics, heritage and other "manly" pursuits.

You sound like the type of person I’d like to be friends with 😆
I’m not gushy, motherly (I obv love my own DCs and I’m interested in friends’ DC but not overly so) or ‘sweet’ and I also have a bit of a rude sense of humour.
However, I would say I was generally liked and I have many friends (but not a big girls group - a lot of my friends know each other though from gatherings over the years). I am interested in people, loyal, not flaky and a good laugh. I suppose I look for same qualities in someone else - the people I’ve really clicked with in recent years are down to earth types with good senses of humour - I avoid the overly gushy types as much a possible!
Edited to say i do have many deep friendships going back over 35 years, I’m not a shallow person!!

Well, this is why I suggested you read over your posts. They are very long and go into great detail about what you thought and what you said and where you sat and what you wore and defending your makeup and what your brother said and how fake the women on whatsapp are and how you're not like them or any of the other women you encounter...but not once have you said a single word that indicates any wish to be closer to any woman you know. You haven't said you like any of them or find them interesting or funny or good company or would like to spend time with them.

I think you might need to look at them as people rather than cyphers and you might have more luck.

I absolutely LOVE talking about clothes, hair, makeup, reality tv (myself and a couple of friends have numerous whatsapp groups for Love Island and MAFS) so those type of conversations are definitely not a problem. I prefer conversation with women, I just find I'm more at ease in men's company.

I’m like this, and I’m neurodivergent (autistic, diagnosed in late 30s). The few close female friends I have - the ones I genuinely, truly click with - are all either ADHD or skirting somewhere around the edges of autism, diagnosed or not. With them, I can laugh and chat like nobody’s business - not so much with most other people I meet, even if I think they’re nice.

It’s why I love the handful I have and feel comfortable enough around them to actually be myself - they’re my “safe” people. It’s just an instinctive thing, and it’s why we tend to find each other in the world. It’s only when I’m being my real self that I can connect with people properly - I think most other people find me to be a bit of an awkward, closed book. I’m not at all antisocial, but I’m never going to be heading off on a girl’s trip anywhere. I don’t meet groups of female mates for drinks on a regular basis, and I barely had a hen do because I couldn’t face the social complexity… I’m ok with it.

For some of us, “not like other girls” translates as “not running the same operating system” - it’s not a criticism of other women, a stereotype or attention-seeking behaviour (which is often what is implied with that particular comment…). It’s just a statement about how fish-out-of-water we can feel in seemingly everyday situations - things that seem natural and easy to others can feel mystifying.

I don't have any friends like this. This isn't a woman thing. This is a person thing, and possibly a social media thing? Find different people, maybe ones who are not so much on WhatsApp.

My adult DD is the same @LKF01 she really struggles with the dynamics of female friendships. She isn’t into the “sweet” and “gushy” either and finds it very hard to navigate. She is definitely ND so that plays a part for her. She has recently made a whole plethora of male friends who are very similar to herself (ND) and appears to have found a tribe. She even struggled with friendships with ND girls in the past. I definitely think it might be worth exploring ND. DD seemed to have a ND banner from early primary where she was always different and other kids instantly recognised it. I think people subconsciously recognise ND almost immediately and many respond to it as “different” which obviously is very, very hard for ND people who are looking for connections the same as everyone.

Well yes, point taken and I can see why they'd give that impression, but as you said, it's kind of the topic of the thread, hence all the detail and focus on myself. I won't go into too much detail about these other women as I would worry it would be outing.

In short, some of them I genuinely like and would want to be close friends with, and others, not. I don't expect to like everyone and I certainly don't expect everyone to like me, but it just feels like I'm forever struggling to 'find my tribe' and I'm often on the receiving end of unkind/ bitchy behaviour from other women and would like to try and decipher why if possible.

I'm glad your DD was able to get a diagnosis and has found her tribe. The thing is, even if it turns out I am ND, what help does that give me? When I think about autism for instance, I think about that awful channel 4 show The Undateables that used to be on years ago. I know there is a spectrum of autism, but there must be people that are only slightly autistic and present mostly as NT? If that's the case I would say that's probably me?

I have done Autism tests online before though and they've all come back negative. I think if having a ND diagnosis would help in some way then I'd be all for it, but I just don't see how it would change things really.