To ask-If you have a lot of girl friends, what is your secret?

[LKF01]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this thread or called a misogynist or something, but I'm genuinely feeling really down about my lack of friends. In the words of Taylor Swift, it's me, I'm the problem, it's me!!

For reference, I do have girl friends, I have about 6 friends that I've been friends with for years and that I see individually (as they don't know one another) regularly for dinner/ drinks etc, but I would like more. I'd like to socialise with someone each week, at the moment, I see one friend probably every 3 weeks on average and I'm starting to feel lonely, where I haven't before.

However, I have found and this is the honest truth (and if you can't be truthful on an anonymous forum, when can you be?) that women just don't seem to like me 😳 It's an issue I've had my whole life. I don't have the same problem with men and am more at ease around them (which I know probably helps).

I seem to piss women off, not so much one on one but if there's a group of women, I'll always be the one on the periphery and if there's say 3 of us, the other 2 after an hour or so will appear closer and irritated with me.

Our neighbour had a drinks evening a couple of weeks ago with us and two other couples. There were 2 women there from the village that I've known for years, have had evenings down the pub with them, drunken BBQ's in the summer etc and tbh, I always thought we were friends, or good acquaintances. However, I don't know what I did but after an hour or so, they just seemed unfriendly, going off together in another room constantly, if we were in the same room they'd talk between themselves and leave me out of the conversation completely. One of them was abrasive and a bit snappy with me all evening.

I just sat there in the end with the men, who were talking about stuff that I had no interest in, on my phone or sat there in silence when these other 2 women were sat next to me but one with their back to me so it was obvious I wasn't particularly welcome to join in their conversation and when I tried, got a lacklustre response. Neither of them asked me anything all evening, even though I hadn't seen them both for a couple of months. I took an interest in both their lives and they answered me, but didn't reciprocate, which is unusual for them.

I don't know, I could give you 100's of examples over the years of women just not taking to me.

I can tell you what I'm not:

Gushy- I don't gush over other women, complimenting them all the time or telling them how amazing they are in a way I see other women doing. If a friend is going through a hard time or whatever then I'll say something nice in context, but on the whole I find the fawning and gushing that a lot of women seem to do with one another quite fake and nauseating and I certainly don't expect it from other people. If I love someone's dress/ coat/ bag / hairstyle or whatever then I'll say so, but I don't just randomly give out compliments.

Maternal- Despite having 2 children (twins, otherwise I'd have been OAD!) and loving them with every fibre of my being, I've never been maternal and honestly? I have little interest in other people's children. I AM that woman at gatherings with kids who avoids them as much as I can and doesn't really make an effort with them. I'll interact with them a tiny bit, but generally I'm avoiding them. I know that some women dislike me for this, but I'm just not good with other people's children and don't enjoy the interaction so limit it. I do however make an effort for friend's children, I try and interact with them more and I always ask about them when I'm with my friends.

Sweet- I don't think I could be described as sweet (and I appreciate a lot of women aren't to be fair, I know this is a lazy stereotype but I do find a lot of women quite 'sweet' for want of a better word) but my sense of humour is generally quite lad bibley (fb/Instagram page/ feed for anyone who doesn't know) quite dry and sometimes sarcy. Favourite comedian is Ricky Gervais. I'd say I have more of a 'male' sense of humour, or perhaps that men just appreciate it more.

I appreciate there is some generalisations with the above and I don't mean any offence, I'm trying to really look at myself and decipher why it could be that women are put off me.

One thing I do is always take an interest in the other person, I always ask people how they are, how's work going, how are the kids getting on in school/ their hobbies etc. I do worry sometimes that people will think I'm interviewing them?

I've found over the last 5-6 years (probably since I've had DC and have been sleep deprived/ my brain seems to have gone on a permanent holiday!) that I have seemed to lose the art of conversation a bit, I find I struggle to make general chit chat and rely on questions to get conversations going/ sustain them. I'm wondering if that's where I'm going wrong, but I just don't seem to remember how to just chat without asking questions 😳

Can anyone help? If you have loads of girl friends, what are the things that other women seem to be attracted to you for? What makes you a good friend?

Hard to say really.
In terms of being gushy, there's a difference between that & showing genuine interest, concern, empathy, etc., for what's going on in your friends' lives. The conversations you've described seem like quite surface level small talk. I appreciate that you're not going to go too deep with people you don't know on that level yet, but maybe you come across as disinterested.

You said you get on better with men. Are you flirty? Could be that. What do you look like? Are you very glamorous/attractive? Are men drawn to you? Are you single? Could be jealousy on other women's part.

Why not ask your existing friends what they think?

Not bothered about them tbh like my own company and come from a big family so always someone to chatter to plus 4 kids lol

I used to feel this way, that women didn't like me. But then I realised that I just don't do close friendships very well (with either sex); I just don't crave close friendships with men so I didn't notice that I didn't have them either if that makes sense.

I get on superficially with my colleagues (although I'm the only woman in my dept, so they're all men anyway) and I get on well with my sister in law and MIL although I wouldn't say we're super close. I have a few superficial mum-friends. So neither men nor women "hate me". I just don't really get close to people.

I guess I'm one of those people who is only super close with my spouse. I'd be totally lost if I'm ever widowed.

It sounds like you may come off as a bit cold & closed?

I think many women might find that tricky as many women are naturally maternal or 'sisterly' and empathetic in their close friendships,

I find I form close bonds with women by finding common ground, not in a practical sense, but an emotional sense.
You say you ask 'the right' questions - about work,family etc which is great, but when you get the answers, do you get deeper?
If someone says 'work is stressful actually' do you delve?
I do... if they seem receptive. If not, I leave it. But there's usually someway to get under the surface level stuff, and find a common ground emotionally. Show empathy, interest & express yourself too.
I think as women, we like to feel that connection.

I think it’s a lot easier to make friends when you have an interest in common, perhaps through a club or activity. That way you can chat about the interest and getting to know someone personally flows naturally from that. The “gushy” thing you mention is how some women form social bonds- just a mode of phatic communication, like commenting on the weather. You don’t want to do that so you need a substitute.

I do think some of your post focuses on stereotypes. Plenty of women don’t want to chat about children etc- we often find ourselves doing that at eg school events because it’s something you have in common but it’s wrong to assume that everyone therefore loves it- it’s more the chat you have to get out of the way before you can get into the interesting stuff. I also wouldn’t assume that women who fit the stereotype in one way are necessarily stereotypical in every way and therefore uninteresting- most people are much more complex than that.

So maybe a more open mind would help, plus recognising that phatic communication has a role and that, if you’re not willing to do it, you need to find another strategy. I think eg going on your phone at a social event sends a strong negative signal and you really need to avoid that if you’re trying to make friends.

Same taste in alcohol, different taste in men! Oh and 100% trust and loyalty too.

Find autistic or ADHD women, they're brilliant friends.

“I’m not like other girls”

You sound arsey. You don't have to be any of the things you state but I don't know that anyone 'gushes' over their mates. Don't go into social situations with such a chip on your shoulder. I don't gush, could never be described as 'sweet' and am not very maternal but it does not impact my social interactions in any way.

I'm not "sweet" or "gushy" and I have plenty of female friends. Honestly though most of mine are women I've known since school so I guess that's not really helpful.

In fairness if you are listening to them and thinking "all this gushing and sweetness and maternal chat...I'm just not like that" it is probably showing on your face. People don't enjoy being judged, and that is probably why they were more comfortable talking without you watching and listening.

This isn't meant to sound as blunt as it probably does, but the overall takeaway I get from your post is that you think you're not like the other girls.

Womankind is diverse and has a huge range of personality types, interests, hobbies, friendship approaches, interpersonal communication styles.

In my experience, regardless of different personalities, interests and temperaments, a lot of women have a good radar for identifying women who think they're not like the other girls / just get on better with men than women / think women are emotional, gushy, and sensitive etc. The outlook usually comes through loud and clear in interactions.

I have similar and I realised that after I was diagnosed with inattentive ADHD that was my problem. Inattentive ADHD is busy mind rather than busy body and while we don't have autism we miss social cues as adults due to us thinking of too many things at once and we also have missed some of the social cues others learn as kids as to how to be part of groups.
I realise that I consciously watch mine and other's body langauge which is why I am OK with 1-1 - put me in a group and I can't watch and reassess body language for that many people so I tend to go quiet and meek and have no personality. I also realised I was looking at people's faces rather than directly into their eyes - look directly into people's eyes (but don't be creepy) while you are in group conversations and people pause and let you speak! It's like magic! But very draining. That's where sensory overload comes in when you have adhd so I can only do so much socialising...

OP, it' very difficult to say from your comments but the one thing that stood out to me is that you say you relate to me, have a "male sense of humour" etc. This is just me, but I do tend to find women like that quite difficult. The reality is that being a woman is probably the single most defining factor in my life - it has impacted everything from the obvious (I'm a mother, not a father) to the more obscure - the way I was educated, society's expectations etc. So my female friendships are based, to a large extent, on that in some way. That shared experience I guess.

Women (and, for that matter, men) who don't seem to understand this basic difference are generally people Im' less likely to be friendly with.

Or as @LolaSmiles says, I think as woman we can immediately sense when someone has a "I'm not like all the other women" vibe. It's a different version of the same thing - all women are different, but being a woman is the one constant.

It doesn't sound much like you value the worth of other women, tbh. Maybe they notice that.

But to your question, here is what my close female friends seem to like about me...

Irreverence. I say the slightly socially naughty/sarcastic thing they are thinking, and this gives them permission to laugh and relax.

I have their back. Even when they've done something really damn stupid, I'm on their side because they are my people.

Shared experiences. I don't much like my friends' kids either, but I can talk about the trials and tribulations of parenting, for example. Or talk about what it's like to be perimenopausal/single/ a working parent etc etc. (And I do fake my interest in their kids a bit, simply because I care about the adult!).

When getting to know someone, a compliment does go a long way, and does not have to be gushy. It shows that you aren't being superior or aloof, and helps them to feel more confident and at ease around you. It has to be genuine or it means nothing, but I find it is almost always possible to find a nice thing to say.

The style and content of your writing makes me wonder if you are neurodiverse (so am I!). Maybe you just haven't found your tribe yet?

Edit to add - I wrote that before seeing the previous responses!

I’ve never had a female group of friends. I’ve had female friends and some small groups (2/3) of friends when I was younger. However never a big group of female friends like a lot of women do. Even when I have been close to being part of a big group of women I’ve found I don’t really like it, there’s lots of passive aggression, or people upset at others, and it can seem not very enjoyable.

2 years ago I started an activity group and through that now go away for a long weekend with 20
women I do the activity with. It’s amazing and is the first group of women I have felt I belonged to. Many of the others commented it is the same for them .
A fair few are ND so I wondered if it’s that we are people who match in terms of our stay or social communication, I wonder if it is the focus of the shared activity or just luck.

I think making friends with individual women can be easier than making friends with groups of women (probably the same for men but I don’t know as I’ve not tried to become friends with a group of men). So maybe focus on that?

It sounds like you need to find your people, that can be difficult if you’re in a village and it’s a very small range to choose from. Are there any events you could get involved in in the nearest town or city that might cast the net a bit wider? If you feel you’ve got more stereotypically ‘male’ interests are there events or groups based around e.g. IT or gaming or science or politics that might help you connect more with women who share those interests? Maybe start a Meet-Up group yourself and see who comes?

I have had this a little bit in the past and old friends have told me that I give off an impression of being very 'together' and unintentionally maybe a bit superior and not very relatable?
Its not just about being empathetic - its about being seen to be vulnerable. So for example - I don't tend to share my real problems with people other than say, my sister, my dh or maybe a v close friend. Its not that i don't have problems, i just dont really like to talk openly about them, this can come off as aloof to others - a lot of women bond by sharing personal issues and lookign for advice and support from other women. I dont often seek advice (or really want it tbh).

So I tend to add a lot of self-deprecating humour to my chit-chat and sometimes share something personal (have been known to make something up where needed) at least in my experience anyway this has worked. Only you will know if this applies to you?

I have a lot of women friends and women overwhelmingly like me when they meet me. I have dear and close friends from all kinds of avenues: those I’ve met through work and hobbies, my DH’s ex partners, the partners of my brothers and male friends, women who I originally just struck up conversation with in the queue for the bathroom at a nightclub, at a friend’s house party, on a train or in a gallery. Which is probably the “secret”: I’m open and receptive to getting to know people, whoever they are. I don’t think it’s necessarily about “finding your tribe” at all, and that in itself can put limitations on developing friendships. You can meet interesting, talented, clever, witty, generous women in all walks of life, even if you don’t think of them as “your tribe” initially.

I think you possibly come across as somewhat judgemental and standoffish. I wouldn’t use words like maternal or gushing or sweet to describe myself or any of the women I know, and I can’t say I notice those things in many women at all. Most people like to spend time with people who they feel they can have a good time with, who put them at ease make them feel comfortable, make them laugh, make them feel happy. Your post is very focused on a lot of quite superficial niceties you think you display, which don’t really say anything about who you are as a person or what makes you a good friend to have. If you don’t come across as open and receptive and as though you’re in up the peanut gallery casting aspersions, women will turn away.

Your post implies you look down on women a bit- that we're all gushing, overly sweet child obsessives who can't take a joke. If other women are picking up on that in real life, then I think that's your answer.

It’s so tricky to get the balance right with this, I got dumped by a close female friend a while ago I think for sharing too much and leaning on her too much for emotional support.

Isn't it OK just to have 1-2-1 friendships if that's your preference?
It's my preference.

IF you have 6 friends, that you have been close to for years, you seem to be doing a lot better than most people. What you seem to lack is a close group of female friends, but beyond school and university, that's much less common. And don't think things are really like Sex and the City or Friends. Also 2 women didn't seem to like you. But so what? There will be people you get on with and people you don't. I think you may be overthinking things considering you do have 6 close friends.

I think offering friendship is an act of self-forgetting and, if you find your thoughts drifting back to yourself, and how you are coming across, it can get in the way of being in the flow of a connection with someone else. If you can let yourself go more and not analyse what's going on, things might improve.

On the other hand, if, in general, you genuinely feel happier around men, that's fine too. If you find a lot of women 'gushy' and overly sweet, you shouldn't feel you have to brace yourself and try to fit in if it's just not you.