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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbours say they can only 'try' to control their child.

747 replies

sleeplessnights24 · 02/01/2024 23:50

I live in a new build. Everything has been ok, but the tenants upstairs have a 5 year old boy who doesn't stop stomping.

Running in the afternoon/normal hours is one thing, but this is in the early hours when people are clearly still asleep! It also happens in the middle of the night too...?! Surely a 5 year old can sleep through the night...? Also, why run if you're up that late?!

I noted the hours it happened. 5:30am, 5:40am, 6:30am - and weirdly 12:30am, 1:20am and 4:20am too. That's just in the last 3 weeks. On weekends it started at 6:50am and 5:40am. We are not just talking about brief periods of noise. It is often intermittent. The worst was 3:50am - which was intermittent until about 4:20am. Then again at 5:20am. Then at 7:30am. That night I didn't sleep at all since 3:50am.

Initially, all communications were fine. I only spoke up once I was at my wits end. I was polite - and so were they. No apology from their side though. They said they'd be mindful of the noise. Phew! I was grateful and hopeful to finally be able to sleep. I do not expect to live in silence (obviously), but stomping on your ceiling - when you're trying to sleep and it is still dark outside, is crazy.

A few months goes by... nothing changes. But because I had already complained once, I felt like I couldn't complain again... until I did.

Again, all polite from both sides. Said they'd be mindful. Ok.
Nothing changed again. Rinse & repeat. The noise - if anything - just got louder... so I spoke up again. Both sides nice and polite. They said it was 'confusing' that it was so loud. I asked multiple times if they'd like to come down and hear it for themselves as they didn't understand how it could be so disruptive. They ignored every invite to come listen.

They would say he 'only walks' on days I would be woken up in the morning - by running. They were/are defensive and looking for excuses. I get it. In many ways, I am not surprised. They kept saying they were 'being mindful' - but nothing ever changed. If the noise had reduced by 20% since I complained; at least that would be something. But there was literally no change.

I was transparent about having Bose headphones, white noise machines, etc... so they could see that I was doing things to drown out the noise from my side.

After 18 months of it happening on an almost daily basis, I complained to my building management Co. I had complained to management before - but their response was 'there's nothing we can do'. They didn't even pass on my sentiments to the owners of the flat.

This time I didn't relent - and asked them to pass/forward my email to the actual owners of the apartment upstairs. (Upstairs are renters). They did indeed forward my email to the owners.

I got a response saying the owners had spoken to their tenants - and the tenants have agreed to buy a rug and will 'try to control the movements of their child when possible'.

I took this as somewhat helpful - and was more angry that I was proven right in that what they'd done for the year prior - was nothing at all - certainly in terms of practical measures when they had told me there was nothing more they could do. Over the 18 months; there was one occasion where I (politely) asked what they had done to mitigate the noise... they didn't respond. (They have hardwood floors throughout).

For 8 weeks, they seemed to promptly stop the running in the middle of the night/early hours (which I only wanted stopped at unreasonable hours anyway) - but now we are back to square one it seems. I'm mindful of it being Winter (dark and awful weather outside) and also Christmas season, but I'm not sure why it keeps happening. They say the best they can do is 'try' to control it.

AIBU for not relenting and to keep complaining to management? The tenants have stopped opening my messages now.

OP posts:
Lovelyjubbbly · 03/01/2024 17:06

@biedrona aw I thought u were vileee 🤭

timbuktootoo · 03/01/2024 17:15

biedrona · 03/01/2024 17:02

You sound vile @Lovelyjubbbly

Anyone who has had to deal with awful neighbours and their children knows that they are all well represented by the inelegant, crass, juvenile posts of the likes of @Lovelyjubbbly

Mikimoto · 03/01/2024 17:19

llamaparades · 03/01/2024 12:34

I’ve been on the other side of this. We lived in a top floor flat when DS was 1 till he was 7. Didn’t have any complaints until new neighbours moved in when ds was 5 and they started to complain about ds running around. However ds wasn’t running around as he wasn’t allowed to run around indoors. We apologised and explained that he wasn’t running around but they wouldn’t listen to anything I was saying. They would even complain when it was me walking around and when ds was playing with toys on the floor.

after a while the constant complaints just caused unnecessary stress and there was nothing we could do as neither me or ds could fly around the flat. I also couldn’t stop ds from playing with his toys.

we had carpet and this was during day hours and he spent most of the day at school.
it’s not ideal to have young children in flats but sometimes it’s the only option. We were lucky as there landlord agreed with us and eventually the tenant moved out.

the child may or may not have sen, the night time waking is very common in children with sen needs. If the child is sen then they may not be able to stop the child getting up in the night. however they can make it safe for the child by either getting a stairgate or a safe bed. This would help you a bit as the child would be confined to one area and not the whole flat.

also it’s no good saying my 2 year is capable so a 5 year should do that as well when you don’t know the needs of the child. We hear this so often as a parent of a child with disabilities and it’s so frustrating when you clearly have no clue what you talking about. All children either sen or not are different and develop differently.

we're having llamparades for dinner on Friday night!!

LiveLaughTurnTheBigLightAff · 03/01/2024 20:10

Yabu. There are three sides to every story. The OP's, the upstairs neighbour and the truth. At least the OP has had their feelings validated from this post like they wanted but most people posting on here, are completely clueless with their advice.

A quick Google search that the average weight of a 5 year old boy is around 40-45lb. If a child of this size is causing the building to violently shake, rattle and vibrate, just by running to his parents room, the way you claim, the problem is 100% with the building and not the child.

A child running through to their parents during the night at that age is completely normal and is not in any way classed as anti social behaviour. It's not your neighbours fault that the building isn't made properly, nor can they adjust the flooring or decor to appease you. That would be something that you would need to address the landlord about. Renters usually have no control over things like this. If the regs of the building allow all flats to have wooden floors down, then I doubt any landlord would put themselves out of pocket to fix an issue that they don't have to.

If you can hear them this loudly, ever thought they can also hear you too? It's all part of the compromise of living in a flat.

It seems like you've bought a flat without giving it much thought and as annoying as upstairs noise might be, what they're doing is not anti social. If you report to the local authorities, they will tell you exactly the same.

It's probably best you look into selling as if/when this family does move, you might be unlucky enough to get some ACTUAL anti social neighbours. The types that blast music, have wild parties etc, with no thought for anyone else and let me tell you, it's not as easy to get rid of them as you might think.

Other people's living noise is not something that you seem to be able to live with so best look into something detached and definitely not a downstairs flat.

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 21:37

LiveLaughTurnTheBigLightAff · 03/01/2024 20:10

Yabu. There are three sides to every story. The OP's, the upstairs neighbour and the truth. At least the OP has had their feelings validated from this post like they wanted but most people posting on here, are completely clueless with their advice.

A quick Google search that the average weight of a 5 year old boy is around 40-45lb. If a child of this size is causing the building to violently shake, rattle and vibrate, just by running to his parents room, the way you claim, the problem is 100% with the building and not the child.

A child running through to their parents during the night at that age is completely normal and is not in any way classed as anti social behaviour. It's not your neighbours fault that the building isn't made properly, nor can they adjust the flooring or decor to appease you. That would be something that you would need to address the landlord about. Renters usually have no control over things like this. If the regs of the building allow all flats to have wooden floors down, then I doubt any landlord would put themselves out of pocket to fix an issue that they don't have to.

If you can hear them this loudly, ever thought they can also hear you too? It's all part of the compromise of living in a flat.

It seems like you've bought a flat without giving it much thought and as annoying as upstairs noise might be, what they're doing is not anti social. If you report to the local authorities, they will tell you exactly the same.

It's probably best you look into selling as if/when this family does move, you might be unlucky enough to get some ACTUAL anti social neighbours. The types that blast music, have wild parties etc, with no thought for anyone else and let me tell you, it's not as easy to get rid of them as you might think.

Other people's living noise is not something that you seem to be able to live with so best look into something detached and definitely not a downstairs flat.

Oh bore off! Literally every paragraph has shown you haven't read my posts.

No, I haven't lied. Or exaggerated for dramatic effect etc... (as I said many times in my post).

Yes, a child is indeed lighter than an adult human - but as most people know children stomp and fall into every step. A child can easily sound a lot louder than an adult.

No, he's not just 'running to his parents'. Of course - that would (obviously) be a different matter if he was. This isn't running from A to B. It's running up and down from A to B - and then B to A - and then A to B - and then B to A etc... and so on... for 30+ minutes multiple times a night. Granted; not always multiple times a night, but more often than not.

Yes, I did indeed approach the LL and building management company too RE: flooring - and as you can see from my many posts; I offered to pay for any rugs with underlay, foam mats and even carpeting.

They actually can't hear me - and this is, of course, something I asked at the very start of the 18 month saga. I also asked the person below me if they could hear me as well as No 4 - which is next door also. Nothing. But then again; I don't stomp.

Also, ALL of the above is irrelevant. The update was a very favourable one. Will update other posters.

Sorry to disappoint you. Nice try though.

OP posts:
LonelynSad · 03/01/2024 21:42

carrotsnparsnips · 03/01/2024 00:14

Sorry but what would you like them to do? Handcuff him to his bed? He’s a child - if his sleep is this bad I feel very sorry for them, they must be knackered.

what would you like them to do? I'm going to respond to this very clearly: OP expects them to PARENT THE CHILD!!!! They are allowing him to RUN on HARDWOOD FLOORS in a FLAT in the MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT when their neighbour has already made them aware it keeps them awake!!!!! How on god's earth are you not getting this?

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 21:43

UPDATE.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to copy/paste the update into here, but the update is that the LL won't be renewing the lease of upstairs anyway 'for a number of reasons'. However; this would be in May of this year.

My guess is they want to renovate and then sell. It's not really a good time to sell though...? I also think upstairs would rather move into a home - instead of a flat.

LL apparently doesn't want the council involved. Not that I did either - since I just wanted a solution.

Does it go against MN rules to copy and paste the entire email here?

Either way; it looks like they are moving - and according to the email - it looks like I haven't been the only one complaining!

Thank you for all your input. It is great appreciated!

OP posts:
Coolhwip · 03/01/2024 21:46

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 21:43

UPDATE.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to copy/paste the update into here, but the update is that the LL won't be renewing the lease of upstairs anyway 'for a number of reasons'. However; this would be in May of this year.

My guess is they want to renovate and then sell. It's not really a good time to sell though...? I also think upstairs would rather move into a home - instead of a flat.

LL apparently doesn't want the council involved. Not that I did either - since I just wanted a solution.

Does it go against MN rules to copy and paste the entire email here?

Either way; it looks like they are moving - and according to the email - it looks like I haven't been the only one complaining!

Thank you for all your input. It is great appreciated!

Ding dong the twats are almost gone!

Not surprised others have complained.

Do post the email, with identifying info redacted.

BathshebaKnickerStickers · 03/01/2024 21:47

On a completely different track to a lot of others

what on earth is this poor child going at school every day if every night is as disrupted at this.

LonelynSad · 03/01/2024 21:47

Ofcourseshecan · 03/01/2024 00:29

Noise and sleep deprivation are used as forms of torture.

OP has the right not to be kept awake at night.
They can put down soft thick flooring, if they really are unable to prevent the chikd stamping around. It may be expensive (though OP is so desperate she’s offered to pay), but they do not have the right to inflict this noise on neighbours.

OP, have you contacted the council? This nighttime noise goes beyond the reasonable sound you’d be expected to tolerate. Were they any use? You may have to contact your local councillor as well, and keep on hassling them.

Noise from children is not considered anti social and as such, no council in the land will be interested

BigHoops · 03/01/2024 21:48

Seems this thread has escalated - or descended -into petty and childish insults from some. Which is a shame for the OP who sounds at the end of their tether and understandably so!

I used to live below a woman who didn't have kids, but would clop around all night, more so when drunk. She was lovely and genuinely didn't realize how bad it sounded. But it drove me mad some nights! Years later, we lived in a flat above an old couple who called me heavy footed as they couldn't stand the sound of us walking about.

My point is, living in flats with hardwood floors is difficult. And when the noise is amped up like this, it becomes unlivable with.

OP, I'm sorry I don't have any answers. But do keep on pushing. You sound like you've been extremely accommodating and that you let a lot go. But what you describe just isn't on. If I was the parent, I'd have the child sleeping in with me for a while to try and address the nocturnal wandering.

Good luck, I really feel for you.

LiveLaughTurnTheBigLightAff · 03/01/2024 21:50

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 21:37

Oh bore off! Literally every paragraph has shown you haven't read my posts.

No, I haven't lied. Or exaggerated for dramatic effect etc... (as I said many times in my post).

Yes, a child is indeed lighter than an adult human - but as most people know children stomp and fall into every step. A child can easily sound a lot louder than an adult.

No, he's not just 'running to his parents'. Of course - that would (obviously) be a different matter if he was. This isn't running from A to B. It's running up and down from A to B - and then B to A - and then A to B - and then B to A etc... and so on... for 30+ minutes multiple times a night. Granted; not always multiple times a night, but more often than not.

Yes, I did indeed approach the LL and building management company too RE: flooring - and as you can see from my many posts; I offered to pay for any rugs with underlay, foam mats and even carpeting.

They actually can't hear me - and this is, of course, something I asked at the very start of the 18 month saga. I also asked the person below me if they could hear me as well as No 4 - which is next door also. Nothing. But then again; I don't stomp.

Also, ALL of the above is irrelevant. The update was a very favourable one. Will update other posters.

Sorry to disappoint you. Nice try though.

Bore off? What a mature answer to some serious helpful suggestions.

Let's hope the new upstairs owners that BUY won't be antisocial and are more mouselike like you claim to be. Like I said, they definitely won't be as easy to get rid of. Good luck, you're probably going to need it with that attitude.

Greenpolkadot · 03/01/2024 21:55

Op it sounds like the result is in sight for you but God Almighty girl .I bet you regret putting this thread on mumsnet..
Youv had your words twisted and buggered about with.
There are some horrible individuals on here. Good luck with better tenants upstairs

Pokethedot · 03/01/2024 22:01

It’s quite interesting how OP says one thing and a few pages on a few strange souls have somehow changed it to something completely different 🙈

Chichimcgee · 03/01/2024 22:05

Really happy for you! How satisfying as well to know you weren’t in the wrong when you’ve had posters say nothing can be done hehe 😊

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 22:15

LiveLaughTurnTheBigLightAff · 03/01/2024 21:50

Bore off? What a mature answer to some serious helpful suggestions.

Let's hope the new upstairs owners that BUY won't be antisocial and are more mouselike like you claim to be. Like I said, they definitely won't be as easy to get rid of. Good luck, you're probably going to need it with that attitude.

Learn to read first.

The new owners that BUY - might well just be... ME. Hope that helps you!

OP posts:
Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 22:21

THRILLED to hear the update OP! The end is in sight. Delighted for you!

OhmygodDont · 03/01/2024 22:22

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 22:15

Learn to read first.

The new owners that BUY - might well just be... ME. Hope that helps you!

Oooo and you can then pick who lives there. I like it.

Lookingforbiscoff · 03/01/2024 22:25

Great outcome OP, sounds like a light at the end of the tunnel. Sleep deprivation is no joke at all. Hope your next neighbours are more considerate about not making noise overnight!

Hopefully the remaining 4/5 months of their tenancy won’t be so bad.

timbuktootoo · 03/01/2024 22:26

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 21:43

UPDATE.

I'm not sure if I am allowed to copy/paste the update into here, but the update is that the LL won't be renewing the lease of upstairs anyway 'for a number of reasons'. However; this would be in May of this year.

My guess is they want to renovate and then sell. It's not really a good time to sell though...? I also think upstairs would rather move into a home - instead of a flat.

LL apparently doesn't want the council involved. Not that I did either - since I just wanted a solution.

Does it go against MN rules to copy and paste the entire email here?

Either way; it looks like they are moving - and according to the email - it looks like I haven't been the only one complaining!

Thank you for all your input. It is great appreciated!

Delighted for you, great news.

Daniagainagainagain · 03/01/2024 22:28

'Noise from children is not considered anti social and as such, no council in the land will be interested'

@LonelynSad

Incorrect. I got the council involved when the child above us was the main culprit. The process took circa 2 years but they could've faced eviction if I took it further and didn't move myself.

FreeOnTheRange · 03/01/2024 22:48

ValerieMoore · 03/01/2024 14:31

I agree that children shouldn’t be in flats but that actually nobody should be.

This. It's effectively child abuse.

Chichimcgee · 03/01/2024 22:49

Daniagainagainagain · 03/01/2024 22:28

'Noise from children is not considered anti social and as such, no council in the land will be interested'

@LonelynSad

Incorrect. I got the council involved when the child above us was the main culprit. The process took circa 2 years but they could've faced eviction if I took it further and didn't move myself.

Quite a few years ago there was lots of news about ‘asbo kids’ some were really quite young so I assume it doesn’t matter how old the child is? I know someone who has had the police round because of her baby crying and her neighbours not liking it and she ended up moving

Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 22:51

This reply has been deleted

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OhmygodDont · 03/01/2024 22:53

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Pretty sure the op said their tenancy runs out in MAY so given a section 21 which doesn't automatically evict then court blah blah blah they could still be there in August.

🙄 try hards need to try harder.

also op plans to buy it 😂😂