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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbours say they can only 'try' to control their child.

747 replies

sleeplessnights24 · 02/01/2024 23:50

I live in a new build. Everything has been ok, but the tenants upstairs have a 5 year old boy who doesn't stop stomping.

Running in the afternoon/normal hours is one thing, but this is in the early hours when people are clearly still asleep! It also happens in the middle of the night too...?! Surely a 5 year old can sleep through the night...? Also, why run if you're up that late?!

I noted the hours it happened. 5:30am, 5:40am, 6:30am - and weirdly 12:30am, 1:20am and 4:20am too. That's just in the last 3 weeks. On weekends it started at 6:50am and 5:40am. We are not just talking about brief periods of noise. It is often intermittent. The worst was 3:50am - which was intermittent until about 4:20am. Then again at 5:20am. Then at 7:30am. That night I didn't sleep at all since 3:50am.

Initially, all communications were fine. I only spoke up once I was at my wits end. I was polite - and so were they. No apology from their side though. They said they'd be mindful of the noise. Phew! I was grateful and hopeful to finally be able to sleep. I do not expect to live in silence (obviously), but stomping on your ceiling - when you're trying to sleep and it is still dark outside, is crazy.

A few months goes by... nothing changes. But because I had already complained once, I felt like I couldn't complain again... until I did.

Again, all polite from both sides. Said they'd be mindful. Ok.
Nothing changed again. Rinse & repeat. The noise - if anything - just got louder... so I spoke up again. Both sides nice and polite. They said it was 'confusing' that it was so loud. I asked multiple times if they'd like to come down and hear it for themselves as they didn't understand how it could be so disruptive. They ignored every invite to come listen.

They would say he 'only walks' on days I would be woken up in the morning - by running. They were/are defensive and looking for excuses. I get it. In many ways, I am not surprised. They kept saying they were 'being mindful' - but nothing ever changed. If the noise had reduced by 20% since I complained; at least that would be something. But there was literally no change.

I was transparent about having Bose headphones, white noise machines, etc... so they could see that I was doing things to drown out the noise from my side.

After 18 months of it happening on an almost daily basis, I complained to my building management Co. I had complained to management before - but their response was 'there's nothing we can do'. They didn't even pass on my sentiments to the owners of the flat.

This time I didn't relent - and asked them to pass/forward my email to the actual owners of the apartment upstairs. (Upstairs are renters). They did indeed forward my email to the owners.

I got a response saying the owners had spoken to their tenants - and the tenants have agreed to buy a rug and will 'try to control the movements of their child when possible'.

I took this as somewhat helpful - and was more angry that I was proven right in that what they'd done for the year prior - was nothing at all - certainly in terms of practical measures when they had told me there was nothing more they could do. Over the 18 months; there was one occasion where I (politely) asked what they had done to mitigate the noise... they didn't respond. (They have hardwood floors throughout).

For 8 weeks, they seemed to promptly stop the running in the middle of the night/early hours (which I only wanted stopped at unreasonable hours anyway) - but now we are back to square one it seems. I'm mindful of it being Winter (dark and awful weather outside) and also Christmas season, but I'm not sure why it keeps happening. They say the best they can do is 'try' to control it.

AIBU for not relenting and to keep complaining to management? The tenants have stopped opening my messages now.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 03/01/2024 00:10

HundredMilesAnHour · 03/01/2024 00:09

I'm sorry, you think my attitude is vile, but I'm sorry but you have NO idea what its like to deal with a child who will not sleep.

I think the OP has EVERY idea what's it's like dealing with a child who will not sleep. She's being kept awake by one and she didn't even choose to have a child! So yes @RedToothBrush your attitude is indeed vile.

GOOD then.

mrsclaus1984 · 03/01/2024 00:11

Doesn’t sound great, to be honest, if you rent, can you move? Easier said than done, I know.
When I first left home, I rented a new build flat. It was awful noise-wise.. upstairs neighbours were lovely.. but you could hear them putting cutlery away in their drawer, using the loo, and … other things. Just every day noise, nothing you could complain about… so I dread to think what it would have been like with stomping child upstairs.

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 00:11

olympicsrock · 03/01/2024 00:08

Do you get that younger children often habitually wake up around 5 or 6 am ? I was on my knees at this point with exhaustion. Children also walk with a skip and a hop . I get that it’s noisier - it’s not stomping though.
Apart from carpeting there will be little they can do.

Of course they do! They are often early risers!

They also do stomp/fall into every step. Kids are indeed very heavy footed.

Even carpeting is extreme, which I offered to pay for. But foam mats on the halls that he runs on...?!

OP posts:
sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 00:11

RedToothBrush · 03/01/2024 00:10

GOOD then.

Get some sleep. You sound like you need it.

OP posts:
theduchessofspork · 03/01/2024 00:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

spanishviola · 03/01/2024 00:12

This would do my head in. I might try and record the noise on my phone along with a list of times it is happening and present it to them. Say, ‘here’s what it sounds like and how often it happens. When are you doing something about cushioning the floor?’ I’d also copy in their landlord. Rinse and repeat until they actually take some remedial measures.

Iam4eels · 03/01/2024 00:14

These are council rules on what does not constitute antisocial behaviour:

The following examples are NOT considered to be anti-social behaviour:

Noise from children playing
Personal differences or family disputes
Disagreements about parking
Civil disputes such as boundary issues
Living or domestic noise including conversation heard through walls and floors, neighbours walking around their home, noise travelling due to poor insulation and domestic activity such as vacuuming or using a washing machine

"Neighbours walking around their home"...

Your issue here is with the developers and property management who have sold you a flat not properly insulated for sound, take it up with them but don't go blaming the neighbours for it.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 03/01/2024 00:14

Oh, one other thing.

The general noises of life CAN be too loud if you are living in a building with inadequate soundproofing. In which case, thee is likely to be a violation of the building regs.

I lived in one such building. We all had to move out when remedial work took place.

I could literally hear entire conversation by my neighbours. They only took it seriously when I parroted a conversation back to them. It was about a boyfriend, I think. They were freaked out by my repeating it word for word and I then offered my opinion on the situation. Then they got management involved (I was a tenant, they were owners).

OP, the noise on your building might not be that bad but it is still worth pushing the lack of sound proofing as a building issue. Impact noise (footsteps) travels differently to ambient noise and is treated differently.

HundredMilesAnHour · 03/01/2024 00:14

I'd also escalate to the freeholder if you get nowhere with the managing agent / landlord.

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 00:14

mrsclaus1984 · 03/01/2024 00:11

Doesn’t sound great, to be honest, if you rent, can you move? Easier said than done, I know.
When I first left home, I rented a new build flat. It was awful noise-wise.. upstairs neighbours were lovely.. but you could hear them putting cutlery away in their drawer, using the loo, and … other things. Just every day noise, nothing you could complain about… so I dread to think what it would have been like with stomping child upstairs.

I don't even mind day-to-day noises. That is, after all, part and parcel of living in a shared building! I don't care bout appliances, TV, music, chairs scraping, doors etc... I expect to hear these things!

Btw; these are all very different than 'impact noise'. I obviously can't - and wouldn't - say anything about even the stomping in regular/normal hours!

But running in the middle of the night/early hours - when people are clearly asleep/still asleep...? Not on.

OP posts:
carrotsnparsnips · 03/01/2024 00:14

Sorry but what would you like them to do? Handcuff him to his bed? He’s a child - if his sleep is this bad I feel very sorry for them, they must be knackered.

mrsclaus1984 · 03/01/2024 00:15

carrotsnparsnips · 03/01/2024 00:14

Sorry but what would you like them to do? Handcuff him to his bed? He’s a child - if his sleep is this bad I feel very sorry for them, they must be knackered.

It’s a difficult one, because yes, I agree with you, but also OP is probably knackered too!

Iam4eels · 03/01/2024 00:15

carrotsnparsnips · 03/01/2024 00:14

Sorry but what would you like them to do? Handcuff him to his bed? He’s a child - if his sleep is this bad I feel very sorry for them, they must be knackered.

Exactly and given that it's happening in the middle of the night it's not like they'll be awake to actively supervise him and intervene before he starts running. It sounds like he's waking up and dashing off to their room for whatever reason.

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 00:16

Iam4eels · 03/01/2024 00:14

These are council rules on what does not constitute antisocial behaviour:

The following examples are NOT considered to be anti-social behaviour:

Noise from children playing
Personal differences or family disputes
Disagreements about parking
Civil disputes such as boundary issues
Living or domestic noise including conversation heard through walls and floors, neighbours walking around their home, noise travelling due to poor insulation and domestic activity such as vacuuming or using a washing machine

"Neighbours walking around their home"...

Your issue here is with the developers and property management who have sold you a flat not properly insulated for sound, take it up with them but don't go blaming the neighbours for it.

Surely it's not asking too much for them to mitigate it - by putting simple mats down on the hallways?

Even though it wouldn't cut out the noise completely; it would dampen/deaden it - which means the impact would be drastically reduced - which means people can actually sleep in their own homes...

OP posts:
EsmeSusanOgg · 03/01/2024 00:18

HundredMilesAnHour · 03/01/2024 00:01

So there's nothing in the lease about flooring?? What about quiet enjoyment?

I'd kick up a stink to the management company and the landlord again. And again and again. You're already logging the incidents so I'd also get some advice from the noise team at the council and try to go down the anti-social behaviour route.

Noise from young children running about (even at antisocial times) is not covered by antisocial noise rules. Especially if there are no other issues/ welfare concerns.

You can keep complaining, but all you are doing is upsetting yourself and probably your neighbours.

What are you hoping to achieve?

Iam4eels · 03/01/2024 00:18

You've asked, they said they've put down a rug. Like it or not, they're not under any obligation to go further than that which is why you need to look at what you can do from your end. Do you still have hardwood flooring down or have you laid rugs? Hardwood flooring in your property will contribute to the reverberation and echo.

EsmeSusanOgg · 03/01/2024 00:19

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 00:16

Surely it's not asking too much for them to mitigate it - by putting simple mats down on the hallways?

Even though it wouldn't cut out the noise completely; it would dampen/deaden it - which means the impact would be drastically reduced - which means people can actually sleep in their own homes...

Are you happy to pay for that? Is their landlord?

Delassalle · 03/01/2024 00:19

If you have a hyper active child that you can't control during the night why would you live in a rented flat that is above others so that your wayward child is now a nuisance to others?

The parents are very nonchalant about it and don't appear to be 'on their knees' at all!

I'm
Betting they take sleeping tablets and the kid wakes ups and stomps around for attention as his parents won't or can't wake up.

Keep complaining op.

feelingalittlehorse · 03/01/2024 00:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I’d have said the OP understands fine well what it’s like to be sleep deprived by a child that wont sleep.
The difference being, this one isn’t hers!!!!

OP, I would see how far you get trying to get them to carpet upstairs, see if it’s an option for the owner. If not, honestly, I’d move. I could not be arsed with that.

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 00:19

DifficultBloodyWoman · 03/01/2024 00:14

Oh, one other thing.

The general noises of life CAN be too loud if you are living in a building with inadequate soundproofing. In which case, thee is likely to be a violation of the building regs.

I lived in one such building. We all had to move out when remedial work took place.

I could literally hear entire conversation by my neighbours. They only took it seriously when I parroted a conversation back to them. It was about a boyfriend, I think. They were freaked out by my repeating it word for word and I then offered my opinion on the situation. Then they got management involved (I was a tenant, they were owners).

OP, the noise on your building might not be that bad but it is still worth pushing the lack of sound proofing as a building issue. Impact noise (footsteps) travels differently to ambient noise and is treated differently.

I don't even mind day-to-day noises. That is, after all, part and parcel of living in a shared building! I don't care bout appliances, TV, music, chairs scraping, doors etc... I expect to hear these things!

Although I hear these noises - it's nothing bad at all.

The running, however, is wildly different - as it's impact noise - as opposed to airborne noise.

OP posts:
sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 00:20

EsmeSusanOgg · 03/01/2024 00:19

Are you happy to pay for that? Is their landlord?

Yes. I am! I already offered to pay - as per PP!

OP posts:
Iam4eels · 03/01/2024 00:20

If you keep complaining specifically about them and their child when they've already taken steps to try control the issue by laying a rug (despite not being obligated to do so) they would have a good case for harassment which is considered antisocial behaviour and, if they complained, it's something you'd need to declare if you come to sell your flat.

Sam9769 · 03/01/2024 00:21

You are entitled to quiet enjoyment of your home. Record the noise and keep a diary of the times and duration of the noise. Press management to intervene again.
Your neighbours have to be considerate of the fact that they have close neighbours who don’t want to be disturbed by their kid especially when they are trying to sleep.
And by the way, you’re not a dick but the person who posted that abusive comment is!

Iam4eels · 03/01/2024 00:22

Delassalle · 03/01/2024 00:19

If you have a hyper active child that you can't control during the night why would you live in a rented flat that is above others so that your wayward child is now a nuisance to others?

The parents are very nonchalant about it and don't appear to be 'on their knees' at all!

I'm
Betting they take sleeping tablets and the kid wakes ups and stomps around for attention as his parents won't or can't wake up.

Keep complaining op.

I've seen some leaps in my time but you've won the award for most straws grasped in one go. From noisy child to "the parents are abusing prescription meds". Quite the presumption.

EsmeSusanOgg · 03/01/2024 00:23

DifficultBloodyWoman · 03/01/2024 00:14

Oh, one other thing.

The general noises of life CAN be too loud if you are living in a building with inadequate soundproofing. In which case, thee is likely to be a violation of the building regs.

I lived in one such building. We all had to move out when remedial work took place.

I could literally hear entire conversation by my neighbours. They only took it seriously when I parroted a conversation back to them. It was about a boyfriend, I think. They were freaked out by my repeating it word for word and I then offered my opinion on the situation. Then they got management involved (I was a tenant, they were owners).

OP, the noise on your building might not be that bad but it is still worth pushing the lack of sound proofing as a building issue. Impact noise (footsteps) travels differently to ambient noise and is treated differently.

This is a good point. Poorly insulated buildings often amplify noise.