Neighbours say they can only 'try' to control their child.

[sleeplessnights24]

I live in a new build. Everything has been ok, but the tenants upstairs have a 5 year old boy who doesn't stop stomping.

Running in the afternoon/normal hours is one thing, but this is in the early hours when people are clearly still asleep! It also happens in the middle of the night too...?! Surely a 5 year old can sleep through the night...? Also, why run if you're up that late?!

I noted the hours it happened. 5:30am, 5:40am, 6:30am - and weirdly 12:30am, 1:20am and 4:20am too. That's just in the last 3 weeks. On weekends it started at 6:50am and 5:40am. We are not just talking about brief periods of noise. It is often intermittent. The worst was 3:50am - which was intermittent until about 4:20am. Then again at 5:20am. Then at 7:30am. That night I didn't sleep at all since 3:50am.

Initially, all communications were fine. I only spoke up once I was at my wits end. I was polite - and so were they. No apology from their side though. They said they'd be mindful of the noise. Phew! I was grateful and hopeful to finally be able to sleep. I do not expect to live in silence (obviously), but stomping on your ceiling - when you're trying to sleep and it is still dark outside, is crazy.

A few months goes by... nothing changes. But because I had already complained once, I felt like I couldn't complain again... until I did.

Again, all polite from both sides. Said they'd be mindful. Ok.
Nothing changed again. Rinse & repeat. The noise - if anything - just got louder... so I spoke up again. Both sides nice and polite. They said it was 'confusing' that it was so loud. I asked multiple times if they'd like to come down and hear it for themselves as they didn't understand how it could be so disruptive. They ignored every invite to come listen.

They would say he 'only walks' on days I would be woken up in the morning - by running. They were/are defensive and looking for excuses. I get it. In many ways, I am not surprised. They kept saying they were 'being mindful' - but nothing ever changed. If the noise had reduced by 20% since I complained; at least that would be something. But there was literally no change.

I was transparent about having Bose headphones, white noise machines, etc... so they could see that I was doing things to drown out the noise from my side.

After 18 months of it happening on an almost daily basis, I complained to my building management Co. I had complained to management before - but their response was 'there's nothing we can do'. They didn't even pass on my sentiments to the owners of the flat.

This time I didn't relent - and asked them to pass/forward my email to the actual owners of the apartment upstairs. (Upstairs are renters). They did indeed forward my email to the owners.

I got a response saying the owners had spoken to their tenants - and the tenants have agreed to buy a rug and will 'try to control the movements of their child when possible'.

I took this as somewhat helpful - and was more angry that I was proven right in that what they'd done for the year prior - was nothing at all - certainly in terms of practical measures when they had told me there was nothing more they could do. Over the 18 months; there was one occasion where I (politely) asked what they had done to mitigate the noise... they didn't respond. (They have hardwood floors throughout).

For 8 weeks, they seemed to promptly stop the running in the middle of the night/early hours (which I only wanted stopped at unreasonable hours anyway) - but now we are back to square one it seems. I'm mindful of it being Winter (dark and awful weather outside) and also Christmas season, but I'm not sure why it keeps happening. They say the best they can do is 'try' to control it.

AIBU for not relenting and to keep complaining to management? The tenants have stopped opening my messages now.

Is it? Legally? Or is it disability discrimination on ops part of the child has SEN?

Spelling it out to me would involve you actually being able to spell.

Again, you presume to know my living situation. Or that I sleep 15 hours a day! Wow, great work detective.

You're making a fool of yourself with your incoherent ramblings.

They should be putting mats down.

Owner shouldn't have put hard flooring in.

They should try to enforce a no running rule. Sadly, the kid might be resistant to being quiet. (Like a certain autistic teen who shall not be named)

@Scalottia is this Post not about the OP

I was talking about her and her circumstances not yours. Your the one that got involved 😕

What if instead of a child (and I'm aware this child may not have SEN but regardless night waking are likely to be temporary but let's just hypothetically say a child with SEN is the issue) temporarily waking at night..

It was someone following an accident temporarily in a wheelchair? Or using crutches so noisy and thumpy and up multiple times a night with pain or for meds. Say for 3 months. Is that as unacceptable and the person should move?

Because a parent can no more foresee a child's SEN than an adult can foresee a fall

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12747283/Victory-millionaire-couple-sued-neighbour-noisy-wooden-floor-Businessman-wife-awarded-16k-judge-ruled-City-bankers-family-upstairs-left-suffering-unbearable-noise-1m-Kensington-flat.html

Cmonluv · Today 12:10

MrsSkylerWhite · Today 12:03

CmonLuc
**
With all due respect do you understand that a developmental disability will mean the ability to understand or comply isn't on a par with the average 5 yr old.

In those circumstances, is it not beholden on the parents to take that into consideration and look for accommodation more suitable for their child’s needs? ie: not disturbing other people’s lives if they can help it.

Is it? Legally? Or is it disability discrimination on ops part of the child has SEN

I’ve no idea, legally. Surely it’s common courtesy, though. If you knew that your child had certain behaviours that would cause disturbance to others, wouldn’t you try to mitigate them (by taking a ground floor flat, for example?)

It is though. Literally according to the law. Moving around one’s house constitutes living noise, and is not classified as antisocial, regardless of time of day.There are no restrictions on when one can move around their house, “wee hours” or otherwise.
OP is characterising the child as “stomping” , but this is entirely subjective, and likely the child just has a heavy gait, the floors are exceptionally noisy, and the sound insulation is poor.

Bullshit. The landlord put the wind up them and they put a stop to it quick smart.

Is this a leasehold flat? What does the lease say?

Just on the sleep cycle, day or night thing, ALL the people we need the most (doctors, nurses, firefighters etc) are required at some point to sleep in the day and to work at night. It messes even with your adult routine, so you might want TV on at night or be doing laundry at 6am so you can go to sleep before your next night shift. And if everyone else is quiet then even a very quiet tv or quiet talking can be heard through poor walls/floors.

I was always amazed when neighbours would be really loud in the day but expect silence at night even though they knew their neighbours worked in the local A+E. One neighbour even ended up being treated by my other neighbour at night in A+E and he was still sticking to his “any noise in daytime is fine” and “no noise at night” expectations. He was self centred and immature.

@Cmonluv so you're saying having SEN exempts you from boring courteous to the people around you?

No.
I think not.

And I'm sick of parents like you thinking this that gives us other SEN parents a bad name.

Firstly I do not live in a flat, I am fortunate to be able to afford to house my child appropriately for his needs without it causing massive issues.

Secondly mi make every effort to have my child behave in a respectful and quiet manner, he developed a love for jumping full weight repeatedly onto our living room floor and deaf or not I assume our neighbour wouldn't love it, it took a couple fo weeks but it's finally gone in that he can't.

The op is talking about a family who had take measures that worked for 8 weeks then 3 weeks of going backwards, coinciding with school holidays etc, any changes needed for restore previous calm may take more than a few weeks to bed in or the child may be ill or whatever. We're talking a 3 week grace period she's given.

The prior 18/12 🤷 I can't speak for, who knows what they were or weren't trying but the current complaint from op is about 3 weeks of night wakes over Xmas holidays.

SEN children typically have poor/no impulse control, so they will be less able to follow house rules just as 'no running', 'no getting out of bed before X time', whether their are rewards/consequences in place or not. It has nothing to do with being courteous.

Also my SEN child will have entirely different needs and behaviours to yours, you know that right? My son never lashes out at friends, he has never hit/bit/hurt another child. My friends son has a similar condition and DOES hurt his friends. She does everything to minimize that impact but it still happens. I'm not parenting in a superior way because my child doesn't hit, his needs are just different.

You're not parenting in a superior way if your child sleeps all night and mine doesn't.

All the what ifs. At no point has the parent said “oh sorry child really struggles at bed time” let alone that they have sen.

Sen also isn’t an excuse to do nothing to make life easier either.

Also if we want to play the what if game. I’d say then this child has Sen, what if op had Sen what if op had a child with Sen and this other child was setting them off. Then who wins.

Or we can be decent humans and try to not inflict unnecessary loud noises on our neighbours in what’s considered normal sleeping times.

In this case via using matts, not allowing the child to run or stomp in areas where they no the sound affects the ops bedroom most of the child really must run or jump. Rather than just shrug and say not us can’t do anything. When they can because they did for 8 weeks.

Secondly mi make every effort to have my child behave in a respectful and quiet manner, he developed a love for jumping full weight repeatedly onto our living room floor and deaf or not I assume our neighbour wouldn't love it, it took a couple fo weeks but it's finally gone in that he can't

Fair play.

I’ve been on the other side of this. We lived in a top floor flat when DS was 1 till he was 7. Didn’t have any complaints until new neighbours moved in when ds was 5 and they started to complain about ds running around. However ds wasn’t running around as he wasn’t allowed to run around indoors. We apologised and explained that he wasn’t running around but they wouldn’t listen to anything I was saying. They would even complain when it was me walking around and when ds was playing with toys on the floor.

after a while the constant complaints just caused unnecessary stress and there was nothing we could do as neither me or ds could fly around the flat. I also couldn’t stop ds from playing with his toys.

we had carpet and this was during day hours and he spent most of the day at school.
it’s not ideal to have young children in flats but sometimes it’s the only option. We were lucky as there landlord agreed with us and eventually the tenant moved out.

the child may or may not have sen, the night time waking is very common in children with sen needs. If the child is sen then they may not be able to stop the child getting up in the night. however they can make it safe for the child by either getting a stairgate or a safe bed. This would help you a bit as the child would be confined to one area and not the whole flat.

also it’s no good saying my 2 year is capable so a 5 year should do that as well when you don’t know the needs of the child. We hear this so often as a parent of a child with disabilities and it’s so frustrating when you clearly have no clue what you talking about. All children either sen or not are different and develop differently.

The point is we don't know

Op went to the landlord who may have kicked up a fuss and threatened who knows what because he wants a quiet life

Opshould record and contact her local council they will tell her which party is in the right and if they say they see no problem she should stop hounding a family for the crime of living in a flat

Honestly if you live in a flat with people above you you are really quite likely to end up hearing noise… it could just as easily be students coming and going at all hours or music on until late or many other possible irritations. It’s a 5 year old and their movements are not easy to ‘control’. Sorry but I think you need to accept that they have as much right to live there as you do and not be harassed for what is essentially just a young kid moving about his home.

My SEN 5 year old has terrible night terrors. He screams his head off like he's being murdered. It is horrific and the noise is awful. This is literally uncontrollable. Aside from suffocating him, there is nothing we can do to stop this. We have tried everything, seen loads of experts, and read all the research. Thankfully we live in a 5 bedroom detached house, but if we lived in a flat we would be waking all the neighbours. Id be mortified, sure, and very apologetic, but the suggestion by someone on this thread that it would therefore be my responsibility to MOVE HOME is disgusting. I am sickened by some of the views on this thread. It's hard enough having an SEN kid, without knowing that people just want them to go away. Plus surely if someone could afford to live in a detached home, where their child's noise wouldn't be bothering someone, they wouldn't be living in a flat?? I am so thankful we can afford to live in a large detached house so we don't disturb neighbours... but also so that we don't have to put up with disgusting, narrow-minding, judgemental people's uninformed views.

Honestly if you live in a flat with people above you you are really quite likely to end up hearing noise… it could just as easily be students coming and going at all hours or music on until late or many other possible irritations. It’s a 5 year old and their movements are not easy to ‘control’. Sorry but I think you need to accept that they have as much right to live there as you do and not be harassed for what is essentially just a young kid moving about his home.

Yep. What about an NHS shift worker who works odd hours and is awake in the middle or the night? I'm not saying they have the right to be noisy, but certainly walking around their flat must be acceptable.

Some millionaires incorrectly installed soundproofed flooring. Actively and deliberately put down hardwood flooring and didn't address the faulty flooring for years.

Judge ruled it was a nuisance until the faulty flooring was dealt with.

Very different to a family moving into a rented property and dealing with the flooring already in existence.

It’s not the same thing but I’ve a neighbour that smokes weed and it is so disgusting to breathe it in. I told the council but they said it’s not a civil matter it’s a criminal matter. But there’s no evidence and I don’t think the police would get a search warrant even if they cared

Yeah my neighbors adult son does this. Bleurgh. Thankfully not there all the time and only seems an occasional thing, so I can let her annoying child's annoying habits slide as she lets mine...