To leave my husband due to Tourettes?

[NewYearNoFear]

DH hasn't been diagnosed but he has verbal and physical tics, doesn't do them in public. But at home they've become quite extreme. Every 5 mins. He often says something quite dark about himself. He does it continuously in bed. My young DC now imitate him which is horrible

He isn't getting any help or advice. It's all down to anxiety and invasive thoughts and he seems quite depressed and tired. I want to support him but he is seeking no help and I find the tics v difficult. He isn't v supportive or interested in me but I think the anxiety and tics take up most of his head space

It's the kids (pre school) copying him that has really made me feel awful. Also he tics so much at night that sleeping or trying to sleep with a man shouting awful stuff is pretty upsetting. I know it's more upsetting for him but he just ignores it and gets v angry if I bring it up.

AIBU to just say I can't handle it?

This is becoming a child protection issue. Your children will learn to tic and inherit his MH symptoms via example. Ultimatums have to be given. It's a matter of which comes first, your role of wife or mother.

It's also possible that even with help he isn't able to control it. The work that needs to go in to controlling tics is massive and not always successful. If he does seek help it might not work.

@Rosscameasdoody I am not suggesting that his tics are not a real physical manifestation of something, but given he hasn't sought any help or diagnosis, I am not going to say they are definitely neurological in origin.
There does seem to be an element of control at play, the DH getting angry if OP tries to get some sleep in another room ? If you had another type of physical illness that was keeping your spouse awake during the night, like a bad cold that meant you coughed all night, you wouldn't be angry if they chose to sleep somewhere else would you ?

What rubbish. You cannot 'catch' Tourettes.

Both these posters have got it right.
What age is your husband op. Tourette’s usually starts before the age of 18. There can be other causes of tics which develop in adults, and the self deprecating nature of the verbal outbursts sound very depressive. People unwell in this way can find it almost impossible to seek help effectively. It’s simplistic to think your dh is being abusive in this situation. He sounds very unwell and in a bad place.
Thats not to say that you need to sacrifice your own happiness or that of your dc. Living n this situation must be extremely hard for you and you have to look after yourself. There is no shame in doing this.
You do need to explain to your dh that you will do anything to support him but that the marriage will be over if nothing changes in terms of him seeking help. Maybe ask his permission to allow you to start this process. I appreciate that maybe you’ve already done this a hundred times - and in that case sometimes actions are louder than words . That could make him worse initially but something has to give for anything to change .

Collect ample evidence of his behaviour and the children’s imitation of it then leave him and keep custody of the kids. I don’t know how much support you have, these things are easy to say and really hard to do.

You can always say to him that next new year you can review the situation. He is functional: he holds down a job and behaves appropriately in public, so he is certainly able to seek help for his behaviour.

If he’s reluctant to seek medical help now, just imagine how much worse that’s going to get when OP suggests he has a brain tumour. It’s not about denial or embarrassment. It’s about a serious mental health condition, the effects of which are preventing him from seeking help. It’s part and parcel of some conditions to completely withdraw and internalise what’s happening, to try to make sense of it. That sounds like what’s happening here and it makes initially accessing help very difficult.

I agree with a lot of what you’ve said but just wanted to kindly point out about “controlling” the tics. My son can do this but it’s mentally and physically exhausting for him. He does control/suppress his tics in public because there’s a stigma attached. Home is his safe space.
In PP’s case like you say I would be insisting on him seeing a GP as there could be other causes for a sudden onset of tics.

Would you give the same advice if it was the OP who had Tourettes? Would you suggest her husband 'collects evidence' and deprives her of her children?

To suggest that he is acting out of selfishness or being wilfully abusive, or as one poster suggested, exaggerating his condition in order to control OP, is to minimise the effects of MH conditions on the sufferer.

People can be lots of things at once. MH conditions can cause people to act in ways that are selfish and controlling, of course you can be sympathetic to the person with the MH condition and also to the family members who are effected by those behaviours. It isn't a case of person with MH condition = good, relatives struggling with their behaviour = bad ?

Or maybe other people have read between the lines. “He isn’t interested in me at all. He gets angry. He refuses to get help. He would never get tiks at work” (not less, not suppressed, never.) Won’t allow her to sleep in a separate room. And the type of tiks (saying very dark things) and recognise this type of behaviour in abusive men.

Nobody can tell either way by a Mumsnet post but it would be prudent to consider all explanations before blindly accepting this is an involuntary condition.

Absolutely @Dymaxion and yes home may be his 'safe space' but does that mean that's OK if the rest of the family don't feel safe? Would a 'good dad' not do anything to keep his children feeling and being safe?

My husband has undiagnosed tourettes too. He is not as bad as yours, but, he does suffer other mh problems too.

I love him deeply, we have been together 19 years. But I still regularly think about splitting up. It's exhausting, living with someone who has mh issues. Often people don't see what is really going on.

Truth be told, had I have known how gard it would be when we 1st met, we wouldn't be together now.

It never ends, op. Sorry. If you're lucky, he will find ways to help himself. Mine stopped drinking, stopped.eating as much rubbish, started exercising. It all helps, but when he's anxious it becomes worse. He also doesn't always recognise the cause of anxiety. We have lots of talks about how it affects us as a couple.

So my advice is, Sit him down and really talk. Tell him he has to take some action, or you will have to leave for your own sanity. Tell him it's actually a form of cruelty when he insists your in the same bedroom and you will be sleeping separately until he does something positive to help the situation.

But, if living with this for the rest if your life feels too big, that's OK. You can leave, because it is a lot to live with.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

Yes, I don't get this view either. It's not as if only "good, lovely people" get MH problems. MH issues affect everyone regardless of their core personality. Illness doesnt discriminate by only affecting people who are kind. It's perfectly possible to be a very selfish person and have MH issues and it's perfectly possible to be a very kind person with MH issues. This kind of weird polarising shows very dysfunctional black and white thinking to me, and a lack of understanding of the complexities of humans in general.

As someone whose child has tourettes, I can say that I utterly understand the frustration of it. I have to walk away or I will shout sometimes. The diference is that my child has been given help - I gad to battle for it because Great Ormond Street tourettes clinic wouldn't see him unless referred by GP. GP would only refer me to useless CAHMS. 3 year wait list. Anyway sorry I digress, through help he is managing and getting better and I also have learned wonderful coping techniques. Your husband not getting help is really selfish. If I were you I would leave him. Sorry but I absolutely would.

My ds has verbal tics and school say they have never noticed it. They can be really quite often and noticeable at home though. His consultant said that it's quite common. But the not getting any help for me would be a red flag.

I completely agree but if OP has mentioned Tourettes and he’s ashamed because of misconceptions about it, then I was thinking perhaps if he thinks it’s an illness that can get cured, that he may be more likely to seek help.

It's possible to 'mask' in public spaces and then all hell breaks loose when you are in a 'safe' space such as home just like what happens with ASD. If you have limited experience with Tourette, why comment?

@Ebony69 thank you for your post. It has helped place another piece in the jigsaw of what my father possible mindset could of been like when he took his life.

It's utterly ridiculous of him to expect to deal with such an enormous issue without seeking any outside help. He's being utterly unreasonable here and I do think that you and the kids should think about getting some space from him if he won't get help. I don't know how SS would feel about him refusing to at least see a GP when his shouting/tics could be affecting the kids.

I think you need some help explaining to him how this is likely to play out if he doesn't seek help. Have you joined any Tourettes groups on SM or anything? You're likely to get more advice there.

Also, does he see his family? If so, what are their thoughts?

Quite frankly it doesn't matter if it's Tourette's or something else, you would not be leaving because of a medical issue, you would be leaving because he is not seeking help for it and it is negatively affecting your children's lives.

Look up ACEs (Adverse Childhood Experiences) - that is what you are subjecting them too. They are already mimicking his behaviour, what happens when they do that at nursery or school, in front of professionals? Or even just tell a teacher what their dad does at home? Referrals will be made, and quite frankly, you are failing to safeguard your children.

Issue an ultimatum -he seeks help now and leaves in the interim until he can control himself better around the children, or you leave and divorce, making it clear you will be going for full custody if he doesn't get help.

Document everything. If you can get video evidence then do. And FGS sleep in the other room - he gets upset?!? Is he not upset that his children are copying him?! Can he not see the damaging impact he is having on his family?

Never said I know everything about Tourette’s. Doesn’t Tourette’s usually start in youth though?

It’s beside the point however. This man is refusing help when it’s been arranged for him, refusing to seek it out, controlling the OP (not letting her sleep in different room) and the home living situation is clearly unsuitable for children.

The OP hadn’t said what “dark things” her child is repeating, but I’d suggest any young child repeating “dark things” is hitting safeguarding territory- the OP must put her children first.

@NewYearNoFear Spell it out to him OP. 'You need to see a doctor about this and follow their advice/take what they prescribe and work with them or I'll have to leave. I need to see that you're seriously doing everything you can to sort this out, and keeping that up.'

It may be that one medication doesn't work for him, in which case he needs to go back to them and try another. There are quite a few different things they can try. Don't let him just try something for a fortnight, say he didn't get on with it and so fall back into having no treatment and being as he is now.

Saying this might be the push he needs to go and get help.

You're not his nurse or therapist so don't feel that you have to approach everything perfectly or somehow fix it yourself.

Your priorities right now are - in this order:

1. the safety (physically and emotionally) and welfare of your child/children

2. the safety & welfare of yourself

He comes third. The safety of your child over-ride your promised to be there in sickness and in health.

You’ve not explained what dark stuff your child is repeating- but if its wishes to die/hurt self then for goodness sake you need to move fast. You have to protect your child.

I would strongly suggest immediate separation, with the ultimatum that if he doesn’t seek help then it will be divorce.

Put your children first. Now.

@Thelaundryfairyhasbeenassassinated.
I’m so sorry to hear that. Must’ve been agonising for you to have tried to sense of.