To leave my husband due to Tourettes?

[NewYearNoFear]

DH hasn't been diagnosed but he has verbal and physical tics, doesn't do them in public. But at home they've become quite extreme. Every 5 mins. He often says something quite dark about himself. He does it continuously in bed. My young DC now imitate him which is horrible

He isn't getting any help or advice. It's all down to anxiety and invasive thoughts and he seems quite depressed and tired. I want to support him but he is seeking no help and I find the tics v difficult. He isn't v supportive or interested in me but I think the anxiety and tics take up most of his head space

It's the kids (pre school) copying him that has really made me feel awful. Also he tics so much at night that sleeping or trying to sleep with a man shouting awful stuff is pretty upsetting. I know it's more upsetting for him but he just ignores it and gets v angry if I bring it up.

AIBU to just say I can't handle it?

I think there's two separate issues, his mental health and his behaviour.

My teen does not tic in school, his teachers wouldn't have guessed. All day, nothing, but let's it out at home. Imagine it's like blinking, it's possible to not blink but it becomes uncomfortable until you have to. They also have intrusive thoughts and OCD, all neurologicaly linked. All worsened with anxiety. We are only just beginning therapy after a private diagnosis, treating the anxiety to help the OCD and may or may not reduce tics. Our GP was beyond useless, but quite rightly they are not experts in that field and unable to diagnose but we weren't even signposted to anyone to help and still not heard from CAMHS. Tourettes is hereditary, I hope no one is re-enforcing your dh's tics as weird or scary to your children, how it's dealt with may affect them or their children in the future. My child showed no signs when little. Tourettes Action is a wealth of information, and OCD UK.

But! There is no excuse for lack of respect to you. It is undoubtedly difficult live with a condition you don't understand or know what's going on, and the guilt you know you're affecting loved ones. Finding the cause and triggers for anxiety seems the only way? Ultimately he needs to want help himself, maybe he needs that handhold from you to go with him or the realisation that you're ready to leave. Or maybe he is an arsehole alongside all the above! In which case you need to look after your mental health too!

I think what's dangerous on here is all the wonderful medical 'advice' being doled out by people who clearly don't have a clue about Tourettes all trying to convince OP he doesn't even have tourettes and she should leave him and take the kids because he's just an abuser. That's the trouble with having so many embittered women on here all trying to convince everyone else to end their relationships just because their own lives are so empty.

OP talks at length about how she wants him to get help but as hinted above has resisted issuing an ultimatum because she thinks it would be cruel. But leaving him and removing the children over something he is not in full control of would be far more cruel and is being actively encouraged by random strangers with no knowledge of Tourettes trying to convince OP he's just making it up.

Before doling out any more dangerous and cruel 'advice' just pray to God your child doesn't become this man when they grow up and have random strangers calling him abuser who's just faking it for attention.

Ultimately the only thing you have to think about is this - if this man continues to behave the way he does, do you have the capacity to stay in that relationship and is it fair on your children if you do. If the answer is no and you’ve asked him to get help to address that behaviour and he won’t then you can’t stick around.

His medical condition and the way he is treating her are two separate things.

I'm sure the majority of people with tourretes seeking a diagnosis who are perfectly lovely to their spouse.

The problem is I don't know if they are two separate things @TigerJoy - I think he is mean to me and dismissive of me because he overwhelmed with anxiety, insecurity, terrible self-hating thoughts, embarrassment of his tics. Doesn't mean I should put up with it - as i can't be in punching bag forever, but i know he has so much shame and self-hatred - but he is taking it out on me.

If i leave him, I will only validate and entrench the feelings/thoughts he has about the world - that he's not good enough, the world is against him, that everyone abandons him/lets him down in the end. It's self-perpetuating - he feels awful about himself so acts like a dick, which makes people not want to be around him, and that makes him feel even more awful so he's even more bullying.

I mean - I spend more time researching/worrying/speculating over him than I do myself. But I have kids now. And I just don't know if i can be the rock for all of them and work full time all the time. somethign has to give. particularly when i'm being berated for getting the wrong juice or saying the wrong thing.

if i leave him, I will only validate and entrench the feelings/thoughts he has about the world - that he's not good enough, the world is against him, that everyone abandons him/lets him down in the end. It's self-perpetuating - he feels awful about himself so acts like a dick, which makes people not want to be around him, and that makes him feel even more awful so he's even more bullying.

His issues are not your problem @NewYearNoFear . The poor thing can get professional help once you split if he's that bothered by them. But it could be that he revels in self pity- that's why he doesn't get help.

The only time you need to worry about his self-imposed issues is if when you split it effects anything for the kids. Then you could go to court to try and restrict his access to them.

Any time he does anything weird from now onwards, report it to either GP or if he mentions self harm, police/ambulance etc. That way you have evidence of what he's like for if you need it for the family court.

Whatever the cause of his behaviour, the outcome is he’s behaving horribly to you. If he was incredibly self reflective about that, apologetic and taking responsibility to seek support to try and change it might be a different story. Instead he seems somewhat unaware of how he’s impacting you, doesn’t seem apologetic and isn’t willing to seek support. It also sounds from your posts that he is getting worse, likely because there are little consequences for him acting like a bully so why would he be motivated to change when he can have his emotional needs met by taking out his frustration and unhappiness on you. As such I would say there is a slim to nothing chance of him changing in the near future. You therefore have to decide if you can tolerate this as it is now, and potentially continuing to get worse and worse as there are no consequences.

My goodness this is horrible to read OP.

It's (probably) not a problem that he has a few tics.

It IS a major problem that he is horrible, rude, unsupportive and self-obsesssed. He is not acting as a supportive partner or parent. He is also not making any attempt to get help for his issues.

There are loads of horrible people who also have genuine problems out there in the world. It's not your job to look after all of them OP.

He’s an abusive bully. This may or may not be connected to his mental illness or a neurological condition but either way you need to think about your children’s safety and well-being even if you’re willing to sacrifice your own. As PP says being a people pleaser is all well and good when it’s just you but comes to be something very different when you have children and they’re involved in whatever decisions you make. I’m sorry if that sounds harsh.

Can you talk to someone about all this IRL? It’s hard to see clearly when you are in an abusive relationship but telling someone what’s going on might help.

Ultimately there are two key things in play here: 1) Your partner is refusing to help himself and improve life for the whole family. Instead it's all about him being the victim.
2) There are young children in the mix who are already being affected.

You can't help him or save him because he won't allow it. You can save yourself and the DC.

Staying with him isn't going to make him better, @NewYearNoFear but it is very much making life worse for you and for your (and his) children. There are only so many lifelines you can offer him before you wear yourself out and he has rejected all of them.

You can be understanding without being his punchbag. And making passive aggressive comments about the wrong brand of orange juice after making a song and dance about his preferred one not being there is not a symptom of Tourette's.

I knew someone with Borderline Personality that had voice hearing and would mutter the things the voices said. I mean, we can't diagnose him, apart from him being an unnerving, hair raising PITA and an anti-dad.

This is your life you are wasting being miserable.

You only get one shot, and is this honestly how you want to spend your time?

You've tried and you've tried, but this is no way to live.

Leave him. Be happy. Let your kids be raised in a happy home.

Why don't you believe that you or they deserve that?

He's so difficult about stuff. I didn't buy the orange juice he normally buys and this morning he was like "you forgot orange juice" and then doing some weird thing where he was pretending not to see the juice and then saying "oh this is what you've bought?? This stuff? Great. Don't think I'll be having my juice this morning then"

He IS a dick. He might be unwell, but he’s refusing the seek any help. That makes him a dick.

Treating you like total shit. That makes him a dick.

He needs to sort himself out.

Of I want a happy home for my kids. I just don't think that happens necessarily as a consequence of me leaving him. I've told a GP and a teacher about what is going on and nobody is bothered.

OP, you paint a really contrasting picture. On one hand he’s struggling with anxiety and self-hatred, but he’s also openly contemptuous of you. Like he’s got low self-esteem but even lower esteem for you.

Don't know whether you have boys or girls but is this how you want them to see relationships?

But are you bothered, OP? What do you want? You don’t need permission from your GP or teacher or Mumsnet. If you’re happy then that’s ok, but you don’t sound happy.

He won’t seek any help. But he wants your support. But you have to guess what that is. Worried about doing or saying the wrong thing all the time.

Sounds like abuse?

@NewYearNoFear your kids are watching you being treated like dirt by your husband. They're learning that this is how you speak to someone when you're in a relationship. It's incredibly damaging. That whole incident with the orange juice wasn't trivial - it was chilling. The depth of contempt he showed you there should have been several miles of scarlet bunting to you.

It's all I think about. Stay or go. Stay or go. Being work is a relief because I'm thinking about something other than the constant and exhausting debate in my head about what to do. I've got a ghastly cold and I haven't been able to shift it for so long and I swear it's because I'm so run down and stressed. I actually can't believe how much the stay/go debate dominates my thoughts. I want to leave. I want to by myself more than anything but I'm so scared for my kids.

What is it you’re scared about? It sounds as if leaving would be a positive for them.

I'm scared about my H becoming angrier and more erratic and me not being able to protect my kids. People on MN always seem v convinced that men like my husband don't want 5050 or that the courts wouldn't allow it - but from what I read that doesn't necessary playout. I'm scared of my H will find someone else and another woman will be bringing up my kids. I'm scared about H telling them mum ruined the family. I'm scared about all sorts of things.

Having said all that the 2 hour bedtime I'm currently wrangling alone while H plays video games to "destress" is making me feel like frigging anything is better than this.

This sounds so difficult @NewYearNoFear. I think your DH is in the middle of a mental health crisis but is unable to consider tackling it and the anxiety is probably controlling him to a large extent.

BUT This doesn’t mean you have to be Mother Teresa. He is still behaving horribly to you and while that may not be malicious in intent, his anxious self is controlling you and probably blaming you because it’s too hard for him to take action or responsibility.

i wonder how it would feel to stop thinking in absolutes and start to break things down a bit. You’re paralysed at the moment and a lot of that will be around the enormity of ending your marriage and making huge changes to you and your children’s life.

i do think you have to be the one to make decisions here - your DH won’t do that at the moment.

How feasible is a short break? No big decisions to end things or move out permanently - just a short break where you and the kids stay somewhere else for at least a few days or even a week? Could you reach out to family for help with this?

Once you are out, arrange to go back without the kids. Have a calm conversation where you explain that this isn’t good for anyone of you. That he does have a problem and your lives can’t continue like this. Do not get into a debate with him - you need to have the conviction of your feelings. This isn’t right and something needs to change. Tell him you love him, are very worried about him but you need to do what’s best for everyone. You understand that he is scared but there are ways he can access help. He has to take the first step but you want him to get better so that you can reassemble your life together.

It may take more than one conversation but I think that once you stand firm that things have to change he may take some action. If he doesn’t, use the break to explore your feelings without his presence. You may feel much clearer about all of it.

@NewYearNoFear I can't remember if you said you were having any sort of therapy but it could be hepful now if the issue is (understandably) making you feel fried x