‘You need to accept that both our mothers are going to move in with us’

[Wigglytuff123]

Is what DH said to me… instant chills

I do not speak the same language as my MIL, not even a little and I find her very very hard work, truthfully there’s a lot of water under the bridge. She’s just turned 60

now to my own mother fractious history. I was the scapegoated child and sibling golden child (single narcissistic mother, at points she was down right abusvie and cruel) the worm has turned somewhat as sibling has very similar narcissistic tendencies as mother and sticky fingers (Steals despite being mid 30s) and no longer talks to mother as was caught in the act. Mother is 70s

both single, divorced and widowed.

is dh right? Truthfully the thought of either of them living with us fills me with dread

what prompted this conversation was we’re planning a 3rd child and dh was making his case to consider a 5/6 bed house for a move, whereas I don’t think staying in a 4 bed with a garden office sounds too awful.

is he right? I don’t know why but I feel quite resentful to take on a mortgage in a much larger house for them to move in, and if one moves in the other will be pissed the other didn’t, and both together, no way.

at least my mum would be bringing capital, his mum wouldn’t be putting anything into the house

I said at least my mum would bring capital Ie her own home so the proceeds of that could go toward a larger house MIL brings nothing, just expects to be taken care of, and was the point, not refusing care to get a fat inheritance

If you’ve seen my other posts you’ll see that i don’t think either of them should move in unless OP is happy with it but they should both be providing for their own elderly mother outside of their home

@Wigglytuff123 latter response was to @GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut relating that you would be inheriting from your Mum… if she pays for you to get a bigger house and then dies you get to stay there, that is an inheritance.

Personally, if you are to get anything I think that does patch in obligation… thought most people would feel obligated to help without financial reward anyway as I’m sure you do.

I don't think OP has any obligation to care for her abusive mother. Her mother is lucky OP has any contact with her at all!

Separate granny flats is entirely different from two extra bedrooms for the grannies' usage.

it’s actually dh I think needs to a bit realistic here, how can he expect to be a full time carer and hold down a full time job, it’s just not possible, even if she lived with us

That's why I rolled my eyes when you said DH insisted he'd be doing the care, OP. Clearly that would never happen, and what you've got there is salami tactics - as in a slice at a time, with getting her moved in and suddenly "discovering" that caring for her himself isn't going to work

Had a wry smile at her meltdowns over your holidays though; my late MIL was exactly the same and started throwing "life threatening illnesses" each time we were about to leave
In the end it got to the point where we'd tell her a date 4/5 days in advance of when we were actually going, but happily she became an exMIL and his problem instead

I haven’t read anything saying OP’s mum is abusive

Actually the ground floor areas were two separate self contained flats with a bedroom, living room, kitchen and bathroom area. They were lucky they had the space for both these though.

Ah sorry misread your post! Yes two bedrooms in a house is definitely different from two self contained flats. And the flats were the only reason it worked.

If either or both move in it would surely have to be on Op & her husband's terms wouldn't it?

For example if a separate annexe/flat couldn't be afforded for MIL she either accepts that or doesn't move in?

Who would want to see their son & dil struggle with a bigger mortgage just so that they could move in?

@Libertyy it's in the OP

... now to my own mother fractious history. I was the scapegoated child and sibling golden child (single narcissistic mother, at points she was down right abusvie and cruel)...

I've been thinking about this a lot.

OP's MIL isn't the nicest so I understand her view and believe OP is correct.

Just for me personally I'd want my elderly parents to live with me. They looked after me when I was small, and I want to take care of them.

Mum has even said she'd help take care of any kids so me and my partner can both work. She has promised to not become a toxic MIL and to not interfere in my marriage

My gran lives with her eldest son and she helps with the housework etc.

It is very common in the south Asian culture and in many many cases causes mental anguish for the DIL.

From my understanding of islam (I saw the religion being mentioned up thread) that a the life has a right to her own house with her husband and doesn't have to live with her PILs.

I think a lot of people on here are very naive about the reality of caring for older people. Especially if you are working and have children.

I'm with you op. Just keep saying no. Agree to support her living in her own home independently. If she has no capital social services will fund any care she needs when the time comes.

I think a lot of people on here are very naive about the reality of caring for older people

I thoroughly agree, mylittleprince - ditto the idea of providing "separate" accommodation

It can all work very well if the seniors are independently minded and value their own space as well as respecting yours ... less well, perhaps, if they lack (or just plain ignore) boundaries, even those they seemed to agree to in advance

That makes sense now. Then it that case protecting yourself comes first

Not only a matter of lacking boundaries and ignoring ground rules when it suits.

You could have the best parents and in-laws in the world - totally respectful of our need for family space etc - but they could become very incapacitated physically and/or mentally, and it would be a huge amount of work - especially if you have children or teenagers in the house.

As @mylittleprince says I think a lot of people on here are very naive about the reality of caring for older people. Especially if you are working and have children. There is both a physical and a (massive!) emotional load.

And let's not kid ourselves - the lion's share of that work will fall on the wife.

I volunteer with the elderly and I therefore have a crystal ball.

I guarantee you that, regardless of how many assurances you get, how many things 'will be put in place', that you will end up doing the lion's share of the care of an elderly person who lives with you, unless you are quite extraordinarily strong minded and resistant to emotional pressure.

You may get lucky and both remain self-caring until they die, or you may find yourself committed to years of caring for someone with quite intense needs, possibly 24 hours a day, maybe with no respite and no chance to leave the house. Failures in the provision of outside care, no matter how wonderful it seems to be, are very common.

But you forget. Culturally especially on her DH’s side she has to look after the evil old witch.

If she ever did move in with me the old witch wouldn’t like it one bit. Seeing as she’s been nasty in loads of ways including making fun of her DIL when she tries to speak their language (and dialect).

I‘m also wondering how people can be expected to provide for others outside their immediate family (wife/husband + kids) if circumstances change, the husband (or the wife) loses their job, the cost of living goes up, etc.
A previous poster mentioned how a Thai wife might expect her Western husband to send money home to her family.
What if he’s not earning enough? I can’t imagine my family abroad expecting regular contributions from my husband.
Same goes for the expectation that parens/ in-laws can move in with their children without contributing financially.
How many people can actually afford that? Especially if they’d have to upsize.
If I could just click my fingers and a lovely little granny flat would magically appear in our garden, I probably wouldn’t even mind my MIL moving in. But I can’t imagine having to buy a bigger house to accommodate someone I’m not even getting on with, because of cultural expectations.

I just don't think the cultural expectation of multigenerational households works in the economic reality of the UK. It is totally possible to care for and cherish our elders while maintaining separate homes and healthy emotional boundaries. I think culture has to evolve for these reasons:

1. people live much longer these days and often have more complex health needs such as dementia that often cannot realistically be managed at home. If you merge households then it is very, very difficult and more complex to access care home places or funding for carers to visit at home. I think it's important to be clear-eyed about this. The noble aim of caring for parents at home sometimes just doesn't work in reality
2. most households need to have two parents earning, and it's not financially viable for one person to take years out of the workforce to care for an elder at home. This would also have implications for their pension and could leave them impoverished in their own old age.
3. I think we have different ideas these days about what is acceptable in terms of accepting bullying and manipulation from our elders. Whereas previous generations would have just shut up and put up with their parents or PILs meddling in their marriage, dictating what they can or can't do in their own homes, or treating DILs as skivvies, we question it. We also recognise that moving an individual who has toxic and bullying tendencies into our homes might not be a great environment for children to grow up in.

I have an Asian MIL as I have mentioned up thread. She is an exceptionally difficult and high-conflict character and I have told DH before marriage I will never live with her. I will go above and beyond to make sure she is provided for and is not lonely, but having her as a permanent member of our home would trash my marriage and create a very tense environment for DCs. I truly respect how Asian families care for and cherish their elders, but I don't want a chain smoking alcoholic with controlling and bullying tendencies under my roof on a permanent basis, and I no way in hell would I leave the workforce and compromise my own retirement plans to care for her at home when there are other options open to us.

Well, it's why intercultural marriages are often very difficult. Maybe I will come back and post how I am getting on in a few years, once I have moved my DM into my home.

I was the scapegoat and my mum is keen to be a close mother and daughter doing stuff together. She's asked to live with me and come on holiday with us. Nope! You reap what you sow!

It was in the OP's first post!

I suppose it helps that my mum is and was a fabulous mum and grandmum. DC adore her. As does DH. She has never asked to live with me, but I think she deserves it. We shall have to see how that goes.

I will be looking for a retirement home for myself though, as I hope to break the cycle of intergenerational living in this generation.

Well when she said at least her mum would be bringing capital in, definitely didn’t seem like something someone would say if they were 100% against their own mother moving in

Who would want that… my MIL. She doesn’t give 2 figs about what her son wants as long as she’s happy and get what she wants.

she guilted him out of moving away to uni, out of taking jobs that would’ve required him to move, she doesn’t care as long as she gets her own way.

yes it would absolutely be down to us and if we can afford it (unlikely) but she’d gladly see us in financial ruin if it meant she got her way