‘You need to accept that both our mothers are going to move in with us’

[Wigglytuff123]

Is what DH said to me… instant chills

I do not speak the same language as my MIL, not even a little and I find her very very hard work, truthfully there’s a lot of water under the bridge. She’s just turned 60

now to my own mother fractious history. I was the scapegoated child and sibling golden child (single narcissistic mother, at points she was down right abusvie and cruel) the worm has turned somewhat as sibling has very similar narcissistic tendencies as mother and sticky fingers (Steals despite being mid 30s) and no longer talks to mother as was caught in the act. Mother is 70s

both single, divorced and widowed.

is dh right? Truthfully the thought of either of them living with us fills me with dread

what prompted this conversation was we’re planning a 3rd child and dh was making his case to consider a 5/6 bed house for a move, whereas I don’t think staying in a 4 bed with a garden office sounds too awful.

is he right? I don’t know why but I feel quite resentful to take on a mortgage in a much larger house for them to move in, and if one moves in the other will be pissed the other didn’t, and both together, no way.

at least my mum would be bringing capital, his mum wouldn’t be putting anything into the house

Surely outside carers from OP’s MIL’s culture can’t be objected to?

No, I won’t burden them with that and thing is for us, even as things stand now we need two Incomes, most households do

For her outside caters from any culture would be acceptable especially with complex needs

I think you’re catastrophizing here and trying to avoid a situation that is inevitable.

You don’t give up work. You live with the person either in the same property or adjacent so you are close to attend to needs whenever carers are not there (mainly evening and through the night).

You would need to research and see CAB to discuss the financials and whether or not you and MIL or you and Mum would be seen as one household or two.

In some U.K. regions care in the community is entirely free. In England the amount charged is calculated following an assessment of assets. If you use your Mum’s money to fund your home it can be tricky and seen as deprivation of assets so you need to be careful.

All in all your DH is sensible to be looking at working out all of this now. It is complicated. You need to see CAB, and seek legal advice before doing anything.

If you wait until they do start to go downhill you will be having to deal with all that, their poor health, your kids, work, sorting out belongings, endless back and forth with solicitors.. it’s a lot.

Again, depends which U.K. region you are in as to whether care at home is chargeable. And there are ways around these things like buying two adjacent properties.

If she has no money and doesn’t own her own home then care at her own home will be covered. Social services would be involved at that point. Then there’s filling in of PIP form you’d have to do or support relative with in conjunction to SS.

@Justia I don't see OP saying anywhere that she's benefited financially from her DM? Or indeed that OP will be inheriting anything - it could all easily be swallowed up by care home fees anyway or left to the cat's home / OPs golden child sibling. Not that an inheritance or lack of should make any difference anyway imo.

I'm also bemused by the list of things you say OP will have to do. Like 4x daily trips to MIL for caring.

It's just not the case that OP or her DH would have to do any of that, and I think OP has been quite clear that she simply doesn't want to, which is entirely her right and not something I think she should be judged for. Any number of reasons would make that entirely reasonable.

Of course, the local authority would be delighted if OP and DH do do all of that. But if they don't then it's the LA that are responsible, and who will be the ones having to do and arrange things. In my experience it's absolutely much better for family to officially refuse to do anything when it comes to the caring of elderly relatives. It's far too easy for the LA to palm off everything to family who then slowly self destruct under the pressure.
Someone says 'I can collect DMs prescription once a month' and SS hear 'I will be solely responsible for ensuring DM takes all her medication 4 x a day and I'll take her to every medical appointment she has.' Next thing you know you're only working part time and barely scraping by, or you're on a final warning for absence at work and wondering how the hell you got there.

I say officially refuse, because of course people will do things to help their relatives, but it's far better to do this on top of what the LA provide, and not mask issues the relative has that will then stop them getting the professional care they need as they're not on anyone's radar or the issues are not visible. That just leads to everything falling over when the single family carer trying to manage it all gets norovirus or has a breakdown and everything hits a crisis point.

That was in response to the person saying one of us needs to stop work to care of them.

i appreciate its a lot but the bottom line is I really really don’t want to live with either of them because that would mine our life is over, no more family trips, holidays, days out, nothing and for someone who looks for every opportunity to put the boot in, I just can’t.

i also don’t think it’s fair on my kids, a lot of caring for my grandmother fell on me, I grew up uncomfortable in my own home, I don’t want that for mine. They don’t have a great relationship with MIL, language barrier being a huge thing but more generally she doesn’t engage well with children. She’s the more plonk in front of tv and walk away kind

^ hit send too soon, even if we look into it now, these things are likely to change as more care in the community is stripped back under our wonderful government- I guess I’m saying I just can’t imagine a reality in which if either lived with us we wouldn’t have to fund carers if needed.

I’m pretty sure here it’s out of pocket, I think it is most places- if you have access to like 22k which we would as she’d be in our house

buy two houses side by side? That’s bonkers? Who can afford that ? A 5 bed with us is 700k and next to it is a 3 bed at 300k for instance, im not a millionaire and I don’t want to move to a shit hole with shit schools for my
kids to be able to buy two houses

I think realistically what my mum wants is to sell her properties and use it to buy one bigger one closer to us in our name to live with us so on paper she’s got nothing

but I really agree with you on refusing care, it’s the only way to ensure you get support from the LA because they actively want to refuse and don’t care if it destroys the family as long as it’s not their problem

I’m pretty sure here it’s out of pocket, I think it is most places- if you have access to like 22k which we would as she’d be in our house

Her being in your house doesn't mean that your money is hers though does it?

I think realistically what my mum wants is to sell her properties and use it to buy one bigger one closer to us in our name to live with us so on paper she’s got nothing

That would be deprivation of assets if she needed care & you would be expected to self fund.

Isn’t there like a moratorium period on that like there is for transfer of deeds on a property before death?

@Wigglytuff123

im more so suprised that he’s all up for my mum moving in, she’s been less than lovely to him also in the past.

Simple. Because turnabout is fair play. He figures if he says/lets your mum move in then you'll HAVE to let his mum move in. Is your mum the elder or health-wise more likely to need care first? Or would HIS mum likely be the first to move in therefore your mum 'couldn't' because his mum was still living with you. Is he hedging his bets that your mum wouldn't be able to move in? What the hell would he do if BOTH your mothers 'needed' to move in at the same time? Toss a coin?

He also figures that both mums will be your primary responsibility by 'default' since you're a female, therefore more 'suited' to being a carer for a female parent. Sure, maybe he'll pitch in with cooking and cleaning, but he should do that already as part of an equal couple. But can you really see him providing 'personal care' to his mother? Keeping an eye on her in the shower or assisting her with bathing? Helping her dress/undress? Combing her hair? Cleaning her up if there are 'accidents'? Shopping for her clothing and underwear? Running her to the doctor, dentist, etc?

No, much better to say "No dear, neither of our mothers will be moving in with us. Because if one of them does, I will be moving OUT".

he already does half that stuff for her doctor dentist all medical appointments etc

but you don’t know him and I don’t quite get you’re assuming he thinks I’ll be doing intimate caring for his mum. Sounds like a bit of a race based stereotype

No, no time limit on how far back the LA can look.

If the person could have reasonably expected they would need care (moving in with their DC to be looked after kind of gives the game away!) then it's deprivation of assets and they'd be expected to pay.

Conversely, if they stay in their own home and have LA carers come in, the value of the house isn't considered.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/do-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-care/

Yeah I just looked it up but it also did say if they sold their home a fair amount of time before needing care then it could be seen as like a normal thing and not done to avoid paying care

i think the key is refusing to provide care to the LA so they do step up and offer something for both of our parents and then we work around it

I read this too and I’d imagine it would be the same if they came into our home and if they needed hospice care then that’s nhs provided care so entirely funded

I completely understand this issue, as my MIL is also South Asian. And I’m also not keen on my MIL living with us. And Dh made the declaration of living with both our moms. However, I understand both sides. I’m East Asian myself but mostly lived in the West. But anyways as you said elderly relatives living with you is also in your culture, so either way that’s not the major issue culture wise.

The problem is you MIL seems like a very unpleasant person and I personally would refuse to live with her right now, as she is only 60. Both my mom and my MIL are 67 and I consider them young still. Plus it’s healthier for them to be self sufficient.

I told my DH at some point.. maybe in 20 years when they might actually need real help and company, then we can live together. By then I hope to be financially capable to afford a larger house where people won’t get in each other’s way, an annex seems like a good idea as others suggested. Plus maybe by then your MIL would have mellowed down a bit 😅.

Maybe something like this could be a compromise on your end? And anyways she lives nearby, not sure why she has to move in right away.

I think it’s very shortsighted for people to suggest divorce right away lol. Plus it seems that your husband has stood up for you and you also have tried your best!

But I really would suggest to stand up a bit against your MIL, the nitpicking and derogatory comments on how you run your household is something I would not put up with. I definitely had to be quite firm and probably ‘rude’ (from MIL’s viewpoint) at the beginning. But I just had to set my boundary, plus I like to do things the way I see fit.

We live in the west, we are of different generation than our parents, but we still have our culture that we respect. So to me there has to be a compromise on each end.

Sorry for the long comment but I really felt your dilemma here.

No, it comes from personal experience with my own mother. Although she never lived with us there came a time when she needed personal care that my brother, who lived with her, was not comfortable giving. Nor would our mother have been comfortable with a male, even her own son, providing it. If your DH would be willing to do such personal care for his mother, and she would be fine with it then I admire both of them.

@diddl if they get to the stage of needing to be rehoused in OP’s home it’s likely outside care would be necessary - wanted or not - for example with bathing, getting them to the toilet, or ensuring they are fed whenever OP and DH are at work.

No, dont out your wellbeing in this situation. Care home if necessary but no way

It is challenging and from looking at your comments it would appear that your mother in law isn’t the greatest. From my experience the only reason we have boundaries on how we live is because my partner is firm with his family. They still have their opinions about our parenting/ lifestyle (living together pre marriage) / home but we just ignore it. It’s much easier for me because I know he’ll push back if they are rude. I’m 100% sure behind my back they still talk about us and complain that I’m not the daughter they wanted though! Maybe just set the boundaries from the beginning and see how it goes? Easy for me to say as im not in your shoes but I’m sure your partner will ensure you are respected. It is difficult to navigate blending cultures but I’m sure you’ll find your middle ground

@Wigglytuff123

Again, this is all a bit extreme…

Your life wouldn’t be over.

Firstly, it’s highly unlikely you would have to have them with you at all…

If you do it may be a short period of time (months to a year) while you wait for a care home place to become available…. By the time it happens your children may be at university or have a family of their own.

If you do nothing regards settling your own mother properly and sorting out her affairs in a timely fashion you will end up with potentially a more stressful situation.

I am in agreement with @GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut regarding saying to the LA you are available to do nothing to get the maximum care in place first and then sandwiching on family care on top of that (definitely needed).

However, I don’t think it is decent to be inheriting - as OP said her mother “brings capital” - and doing sweet FA for your relatives.

We had family who sat on their hands doing nothing until inheritance available - then the open eager hands appeared. Really despicable.