To find SIL's comments on kids offensive?

[hmln]

SIL is in her mid 30s, childless and partner-less. She used to really want children but I think she's now given up on the idea.

I'm married to her brother, DH. We have DS 2 and DD 7mo. She constantly makes subtle digs at my kids and I previously thought it was just a phase, it would go away but it just hasn't and now that they understand more I feel like I need to say something. But what can I say? Each thing individually is minor but all taken together there's a theme. If I say anything to her directly she says she's joking or didn't quite mean it like that. But it adds up!

A few examples from the last few months:

1. DS is refusing to go to bed because he's excited at having arrived at his DGPs' house. I finally get him into bed after a 2hr battle. SIL "phew that looked hard, glad I'm not wasting hours of my evening like that on the regular hahahahah"
2. Whilst I was breastfeeding my DD I had to watch DS squeeze out a tube of toothpaste onto the floor and smear it. No one else was around to stop him and he wasn't listening to my "please stop" "please give me the toothpaste". SIL comes in and says "perks of being a mum eh"
3. DD kept us up for a night and we mentioned it in front of ILs because FIL literally asked how we slept. SIL "I think I value my sleep too much to have kids"
4. DH and I took turns entertaining the kids during the meal, MIL and FIL helped out a little too. SIL "feel so bad for parents, it effectively means you don't get to eat in peace for years on end!"
5. DS ran to cuddle and kiss DH with his face and hands covered in yogurt as DH came downstairs. Of course DH had to go change immediately, 5 minutes after he originally got dressed in the morning. SIL "eugh the joys of being loved by a toddler hahahah"
6. After DD fed some reflux came out. SIL "yuck, don't think I could bring myself to clean up anyone else's sick. Makes me vomit just watching this. You're so brave!"

You’re quite snowflakey, a tad precious and just a little bit spiteful,

Get over yourself, and understand her.

The thread hasn't spun out quite the way the OP was probably expecting.

Would you prefer that your spinster SIL sit in the corner silently with her knitting as a good childless person should. Sarcasm in case you don’t understand.

Honestly OP just bloody lighten up. It must be exhausting to be offended by everything on the planet. You sound very judgmental and jealous of her childfree status.

Could it be you come across as a smug parent and she says these things to get a bit of perspective?
I don't see her comments as rude or offensive, just pointing out some of the downsides to parenting, which we can miss even if we love our dc (sleep, eating a meal in peace)
I have 3 dc, I have never thought getting covered in food while getting a hug is the biggest privilege of my life, and you soon find you're not the centre of their universe for very long.
There's lots of great things about being a parent, there's lots of great things to not being a parent, why should one be seen as superior.
The examples of potential comebacks you gave show you think she must be so sad and lonely not having any dc, which just reflects badly on you.

Constantly pointing out the negatives is just weird though. Imagine if parents went around poking holes in the life of childless people. It would be fucking rude would it not? Of course it's rude to point out things negative about other peoples lives. In what world is not not rude

Someone who has to relentlessly poke negative comments about other people's lives is not someone to be jealous of though is it. It is weird and rude behaviour.

I thought most of not all of these events happened at the DgPs house, so SIL’s parents’ home. Probably during a ‘family Christmas’. 😸

it is just possible that said GP’s have remarked to their daughter that the toothpaste on the floor, thé over excited GC refusing (? loudly?) to go to bed , making a load of noise through the night and disrupting the Christmas dinner was not their idea of bliss, and that they, being horrid old people who didn’t appreciate the correct way to parent , did not let such behaviour in SIL and DB go unchecked.

Probably not though. I expect SIL is the odd one out here.

You can't say, "Wow, it looks so perfect and magical having children at Christmas," because a parent of young kids will come down on you like a ton of bricks and tell you how tired they are and how terrible their life is.

This, jesus.

Childless people can't win. If we tell you we think it looks marvellous then we're treated to A Play In 3 Acts of why it's the worst thing ever, but if we say it looks exhausting it's "how dare you accuse my baaaaabies of being annoying?!"

I just judge silently in my head now - better for all concerned.

Honestly as a parent of 2 young children (who also has a job and whole life alongside being a parent) sometimes I just have a wee rant in 1 direction or the other because my brain has dribbled out my ear so on one day I may tell you the tiredness is killing me and I may never sleep again and implore you to throw me off a bridge that I may find some peace and another day I could spend ages telling you about the love I have for them and my life being richer etc.

But isn't that true of everything? Because there are days someone would enquire about my job and my response would be full of engagement and enthusiasm and other days I'd tell you how I lay in bed hoping an ailment would keep me home. Why the expectation that parenting will be any different? Why are we all us and them about childless/child free/parents?

Why are so many people rushing on to say the sister in law is jealous, bitter etc.

We only have the carefully planted idea from the OP that she wanted children. She may indeed have wanted them, or she may think vaguely that it would be nice to have them if she met the right person, or she may not give it much thought, or she may still see marriage and children as part of her future. We really don't know.

There is just as much evidence to show that the OP may be letting her toddler rule the roost and making passive aggressive smug remarks about people without children. Her Sister in Law may be just fed up of it all and making her own PA remarks back. Or she might be just throwing out casual comments that are being taken up the wrong way by the OP.

@Cmonluv Probably because people don’t start threads criticising how people respond to being ranted at about a job or bored senseless by a dreamy ode of his wonderful the job is.

Threads about how the childless speak to parents or about parenting are common on MN - whether it’s that they’re too negative about parenthood and are therefore abusing mothers because they’re jealous or because they’re too positive about childlessness and are therefore disrespecting motherhood.

It seems to be fairly impossible to comment neutrally so I just don’t anymore. I don’t actually want to hear parenting rants or breathless rambles about how much parenting means, anyway, both are utterly dull.

Yep. It's par the course for threads like this.
Childless women are not allowed to ever think that parenting is anything but joy, don't you know, and we are all bitter and jealous that we don't get vomited on (actually I do as I'm a doctor).

Judging by what the OP wanted to say to her sister in law, I can't help wondering what she actually does say to her and maybe her sister in ,was comments are in relation to the constant childless woman bashing.

Hey ho. Guess we'll never know.

The issue is that some people have Main Character Syndrome so they view every interaction as being centred on them, any comment that doesn't convey admiration on their lifestyle and choices must be a personal criticism of them. Even worse is people with Main Character Syndrome also like to pick apart other people's lives to find reasons why other people must be jealous or envious of them and how great they are.

It's competitive defensive childlessness you've "won" by having kids so she has to "win" by putting youre having kids down incessantly.

I had a girlfriend so it to me for two years but about having a husband. At first it had my sympathies and agreement to some extent but then it became exhausting, then annoying and finally infuriating

Particularly when it verged into hypocrisy. Other people questioning or putting down her choice of being single being terrible, but her doing the same to others about being in a relationship being totally fine.

It’s one possible interpretation of her remarks. It’s also possible she’s just the kind of person who is a bit socially dense and sees nothing amiss with continually saying aloud what seems to her the ‘obvious’, that lots of parts of parenting young children are messy, unfun and time-consuming. Most people, with or without children, would get that no one enjoys cleaning up sick, and hence not feel the need to point it out, which suggests her emotional intelligence is low.

It could be that she’s thick as mince, and thinks she’s being hilariously witty and outré.

I don’t think it’s even necessarily an issue of being child free vs parent but simply having a bit of empathy.

None of my friends or family would watch me go through something challenging in my life, and say “Haha, glad that’s not me” or react to me dealing with some unavoidable bodily function by saying “That’s disgusting, Urgh! Glad I don’t have that on me.” I mean, how insensitive do you have to be ??

I’m trying to think of examples - maybe if I told someone in mothers group that my baby was waking 6 times a night and she responded “Haha! I’m glad I’m not wasting my time doing that! My baby sleeps 12 hours and I’m not even tired!”

or if my boyfriend saw me dealing with menstruation and said “urgh! That’s disgusting! I would hate to have blood on me!”

In both cases, if someone carried on like that I wouldn’t even bother to try to explain to them how their words affected me, I would just have moved on and found someone more empathetic to be friends with or to date.

Of course privately you might be relieved that you’re not facing the struggles someone else has in their life, but how much of an insensitive git do you have to be to actually say that to their face??

The only reason I suggest trying to explain to SIL is that she may just be so self-centred that she doesn’t even realise the impact her words are having and I think family relationships are important and we should try to work at them.

Also, it’s natural that having wanted and now not having children, she will be trying to psychologically protect herself by noting and emphasising the downsides of parenthood. That’s normal and healthy for her. But she needs to understand that it’s best to keep these thoughts to yourself, or at least discuss them with someone else!

So I would give her that opportunity, whereas with a random person I wouldn’t even bother.

Exactly the kinds of thoughts I had - but I was too lazy to write them 🙂.

I think she's just trying to convince herself that remaining childless is better for her and not doing it to intentionally to upset you.

My sister is also childless not through choice and she is worse. Her digs are criticisms of my parenting which feels like she is trying to make out she would be a better parent. All the things you mentioned that your sister in law noticed, I would be delighted if my sister realised how hard parenting actually is instead of putting me down on everything little thing my kids do. A lot of which is because they are kids and not mini adults. Things she doesn't get because she is not a parent. I have bitten my tongue for years.

Her comments are rude. I would ask her if she'd have liked adult family members make those comments to her parents when she was small.
Or maybe that did used to happen and is why she now seems to lack basic empathy and manners.
Either way DP needs to have a word with his sister and tell her to stop.

100% agree. 👏👏👏👏

I imagine that all,of us had comments like that said in front of us as young kids. After all, it isn't a surprise that kids are annoying and drive their parents to distraction. However, at the ages these children are, then hearing this isn't really going to cause damage js it.

I’ve been driven to distraction with my children. But the last thing I would want is my SIL constantly throwing negative comments at me.

As for the the children hearing - SIL better shut her gob. The children will get older and they don’t want memories of their aunty being rude to their mother.

Sounds like she's trying to blame everyone else for her lack of children. Personally I would reply 'Well it's a problem you've avoided having!', may not be nice but it might shut her up.

That's a pretty strange take on it 🤔. Blaming everyone else for her lack of children?! Astounding...

Isn’t it just.