To hope that it doesn’t have to be like this?!

[Switchingoff]

I will probably be flamed for this as a non parent but it’s a genuine q.

Spent Christmas with 4 kids on DP’s side, ages ranging from 9mo to 2.5 (and their parents).

It was absolute non stop them clinging to or crying for there mummys, not listening when told they couldn’t do something dangerous etc (obviously mostly applies to the older ones), being super picky about food, who fed them, where they sat etc, waking up multiple times a night, parents getting pissy if anyone dared to so much as breathe too loudly when kids were napping / had gone to bed etc. Everything (Christmas meal, present opening etc) had to be timed around their completely different nap and meal times. Every possible source of light that might come under doors had to be removed. Parents had to stay with them once asleep or they would cry when they woke (several times a night) - largely applied to two of the under 2s. Or in another case spend an hour putting to sleep.

It was frustrating, exhausting and somewhat ridiculous tbh.

im sure when we were kids we had to go with the flow a bit more and would often just fall asleep in a room full of people and be put to bed when adults went up?

currently TTC but tbh this is putting me off! Does it have to be like this or can you parent differently?! Since when did EVERYTHING revolve round the kids and since when were they so unresilient?!

All the money in the world would not get me to have a child.
Ive seen enough with my sisters and read enough on MN it gets worse as their teens.
Its true you have no life when you are a parent.
I dont hush and hum when i see a baby i think thank god its not mine.

My sister is in her 40s with a 2 year old plus teens no thank you.
My other sister is in the middle of the teen years with both daughters omg its hell.
Im free and its staying that way.
And they all no do not ask me to baby sit im very blunt you had them you look after them.
I wont even date a man that has children. (i dont date for record love single life)
Going back under my rock now.

@Switchingoff are your dp’s family very middle class, sensitive types? I grew up working class, different country and this s* would not have been tolerated in my culture. Not saying this is right but just an observation. Most mumsnetters are quite middle class and are into the gentle parenting thing so you will be getting skewed answers here. Maybe your friends and family are more relaxed so prob why you’re confused, I certainly was when I moved to middle class part of london to be a nanny. It was a shock but I see the positives and negatives to both cultures now.

Don’t let this out you off, you are not seeing normal life. Large family gatherings are often overwhelming for babies and very small children. Lots of noise, attention, people they don’t know. It makes them over tired and clingy. This in turn stresses out the parents who just desperately want them to go to sleep so they can relax.

I doubt every day life in their homes is like this.

With the contact napping thing, it very much depends on the child. You can't train every baby/toddler to fall asleep on their own, some will do that, some won't. Proponents of baby gurus like Gina Ford think you can train a baby to do that by leaving them to cry it out, but we now know more about child development and how that can be harmful, so most people don't choose to do that sort of thing anymore. If you have a chronic health condition, do you have a plan incase you have a baby that won't sleep or nap very easily, or for very long? Do you have access to a lot of support? You can't guarantee you won't get a poor sleeper by any means that you have any control over. It's just luck if you get a good one.

No it doesn’t have to be like this, maybe I was lucky but my child, fell asleep where she when she was tired. Whenever she wanted, within reason, didn’t hold anyone to her nap and food time. She absolutely did go with the flow. Could take her anywhere to any family gathering and she just slotted in absolutely fine

It’s not always.

But it’s not always down to parents. It’s down to a ton of different factors.

and parents, like non parents, can be dickish sometimes especially when tired and pushed to their limits.

Honestly, with a chronic condition you may need plenty of support and it will be difficult. Not that you can’t do it. But you may find you or your partner give in more because your limits can’t be stretched as far. Or maybe you baby will be really easy.

My dd didn’t sleep. But had one tantrum in her entire toddlerhood. Decided herself she was going on a potty at 18 month old and was dry at night 2 months later. She spoke early, always loved school, did well at school, didn’t have a nightmare teens and is now a really independent adult. I thought I was a fab parent. I had ds and he showed me that, actually, it was mainly down to DDs personality.

My brothers child slept through from 2 weeks. They were convinced they had magical parent powers. They decided to ttc because their first was so easy. By the time their first was 2 they had a really difficult toddler and a really difficult baby who didn’t fall in line with magical sleep technique. Both kids constantly fall out and are now 14 and 15. They never stop.

You just can’t predict it. And what works for one child worked for that child. Doesn’t work for everyone’s.

You are being incredibly disingenuous and seem to be massively back pedalling as you are being flamed on here. Your post was not just 'asking a question', it wouldn't be 20 lines long if it was. You used goady and inflammatory language which DRIPPED with judgment of the parents, no wonder people are riled - you were rude first. At least your trying to minimise what you first wrote shows you regret going in so hard to start with 🤷🏻‍♀️

You were just lucky. It's not because you were better at babies. The OP isn't going to be able to plan to have a baby that is a good sleeper.

I was a much better parent before I had kids too. Come back in 5 years and tell us all how its done (or cringe at your own comments)

YABU. Some people definitely take things to the extremes (my SIL was a right PITA when it came to being completely inflexible about nap/meal times etc) but all kids are different and behave differently when they are out of their own routines and home. And these are really young children you are talking about.

My first went to bed nicely at home, but rarely if somewhere else. She has only ever fallen asleep on a sofa etc when it turned out she was sick. My youngest was an absolute nightmare to get to sleep until at least 3 and I rarely stayed anywhere because I knew I wouldn't be able to get her to bed.

No she wasn’t goady or inflammatory. She asked a question as she is TTC.

Calm down.

and this contact napping, going to bed with the kid or putting them to bed etc is normal for them not just a Christmas / change of location thing

This is actually a thing I didn’t think I would do, and we really tried not to, but they wouldn’t go to sleep otherwise. You just do what works for your child. But, I teach 1-3 year olds and I can definitely say that many parents now pander to their children like never before. Letting them make decisions they are not old enough to decide. Letting them interrupt instead of teaching them to wait just a while etc. They want the best for their children and are very loving parents, but there are different ways to do things of course.

Exactly what I was going to say. So many parents think that everyone else’s world must revolve around their offspring, as well as their own.

This is incredibly unfair. Read the title and the start of my post!

Don’t worry, OP, you’re fine.

No one should have children if they don’t want them.

But your sisters teens and simply your sisters teens. Not teens in general.

Mine are great. I know dds close friends parents and they had no trouble with their either. I wasn’t a pain in the arse, my brother was. One was a very difficult toddler but is great as a teen. And it’s not my superior parenting skills I don’t think.

Exactly. I think it was actually a good and genuine question.

Not quite sure where I said I was better at babies just merely pointing it doesn’t have to be like this 100% of the time in 100% of cases

No but there's literally nothing the OP can do to ensure that her baby is good at sleeping. Their initial post seemed to be implying that the parents were doing something wrong and making life hard for themselves, and that by doing something differently the OP could have an easier time of it. They also mentioned a chronic condition, implying they'd struggle to cope with a poor sleeper. I don't think it helps to give the OP false hope, most babies and toddlers are not brilliant sleepers. If you get one that is, it's the exception rather than the rule, and it's not something that can be controlled.

It sounds like the parents are pretty uptight, no it doesn't have to be like that

'Hi Everyone, I wonder if you can help. I've just had Christmas with my family and it's made me a little anxious as I'm currently TTC. I appreciate it's Christmas which might be the reason as children are out of routines etc, but I wondered if having small children is truly as all consuming as it seems. The children seemed to find it hard to sleep without parental support, and there were lots of different nap schedules to accommodate which made it difficult to do things with all the adults together. The children also seemed to need parental input 24/7 which looked exhausting. I was wondering if it is always like this with kids, or if they can be put into a structured routine which allows for some down time. Any words of wisdom or positive stories greatly received - thanks!'

Same question, but I haven't called anyone pissy or ridiculous or suggested that toddlers are unnecessarily whiny or clingy.

Just look how many people are riled by your original post (not just me!) - it's clearly because of your use of language.

Big family Christmases are not designed to show toddlers at their best.

Stressed parents
New or unfamiliar places
Sleeping in new or unfamiliar places
Being too excited to sleep or having toddler FOMO so refusing to sleep
Being overtired so everything is wrong
Different food at different times
Hangry toddlers
Exciting food that other people have which looks more fun
Lots of people to interact with
Too many people and too much noise
Presents! Wrapping paper! Boxes! Overstimulation!
Other children’s presents that look more fun
Not being allowed other children’s presents that look more fun …

They did get pissy! Factual.
the kids were literally clinging which is what I said. I didn’t say they were “unnecessarily whiny or clingy”. factual.
the situation was literally ridiculous whether or not it could have been avoided!

"It was frustrating, exhausting and somewhat ridiculous tbh."

That just about sums up the toddler months.

"Parents had to stay with them once asleep or they would cry when they woke (several times a night) - largely applied to two of the under 2s."

That quite common at that age. If it's a busy time, then often you are ready for bed anyway. Under 3's have never been resilient. The sleep methods were harsher, cry it out etc, then there's rose tinted glasses when remembering the past. While they are under 2.5, you might not get any personal space. It gets that bad you gladly go to soft play so they piss off away from you.

The situation is sometimes avoided

It can’t always be avoided. And that’s the thing with kids. You don’t know if you will avoid it until you have them.

Theres no sure fire way to make sure you avoid toddlers being like this.

You can avoid big family Christmas. Doesn’t mean they won’t do the same at home.

I was at the in-laws for dinner with my 3 year old. We did ask if we could eat around 5ish so he could join in and he did - soup and bread, roast and pudding. They were very accommodating with this, thankfully. He then played about until he crashed out and we put him on the couch. I wouldn't expect the adults to be quiet for him (but it wasn't too rowdy either). I think life with young kids is hard but I also don't feel the need to ensure he goes to sleep at a certain time on special occasions etc.