To hope that it doesn’t have to be like this?!

[Switchingoff]

I will probably be flamed for this as a non parent but it’s a genuine q.

Spent Christmas with 4 kids on DP’s side, ages ranging from 9mo to 2.5 (and their parents).

It was absolute non stop them clinging to or crying for there mummys, not listening when told they couldn’t do something dangerous etc (obviously mostly applies to the older ones), being super picky about food, who fed them, where they sat etc, waking up multiple times a night, parents getting pissy if anyone dared to so much as breathe too loudly when kids were napping / had gone to bed etc. Everything (Christmas meal, present opening etc) had to be timed around their completely different nap and meal times. Every possible source of light that might come under doors had to be removed. Parents had to stay with them once asleep or they would cry when they woke (several times a night) - largely applied to two of the under 2s. Or in another case spend an hour putting to sleep.

It was frustrating, exhausting and somewhat ridiculous tbh.

im sure when we were kids we had to go with the flow a bit more and would often just fall asleep in a room full of people and be put to bed when adults went up?

currently TTC but tbh this is putting me off! Does it have to be like this or can you parent differently?! Since when did EVERYTHING revolve round the kids and since when were they so unresilient?!

I bet you wouldn't be getting such a hard time if you'd said you had kids of your own..... you're only being jumped on because you're not a parent yet.

All the smug "just you wait.." is ridiculously patronising.

No @Switchingoff not all parents and children are like and no, it doesn't have to be that way.

I'm a parent and don't recognise any of what you've described.

There are some children among my circle of family/friends who CAN be clingier and some who CAN be fussy, but their parents certainly don't pander to it in the way you've described.

Which is why I said “parents of Gen-Zers”

Look up 'unicorn baby'. You may get one of these!

But outside of these rarities, I found comfort in this thread, that this is the norm and not just me making a meal of it. Or as in-laws nationwide will say (during your darkest hours) 'making a rod for your own back'.

I don't think it's realistic to hope, unless you mean sort of plan for the worst and know you'll get through, but have that little glimmer of hope. I have a chronic illness and not many spoons, so does a good friend of mine. It takes a lot out of you. I have 3 DC, she has 2. We're both a lot sicker after having kids, but there's multiple things going on, both single mums now with abusive Ex's, who were doing 90+ percent of the hard bits of parenting because of how our XHs behaved and all out kids have SEN. I've had 10 years of bugger all sleep because XH got more abusive if he was up with the kids or they cut into his gaming time. A good partner makes a real difference. I don't know if you have that.

I'd suggest if you haven't already that you have a very clear talk to your DP/DH about your limits and what will worsen your chronic illness. I wanted to breastfeed, it was really important to me, but it was also very exhausting for my body. It was good to feed them to sleep at times, but it cost a lot to do that. You need to make it clear what support you will need. Discuss things like night wakes and early starts. If you have mat leave you can fall into a pattern of doing everything and then that not changing when the woman returns to work. Discuss childcare costs. I know too many men who still think this should down out of the woman's income and isn't a family expense. Talk about how things are going to work if you both work, with childcare and the house.

I thought XH was incredibly supportive and would be a great Dad. Turned out I was completely wrong.

I'm a non parent but hoping soon! Tbh this is to be expected the kids are little. It's like kids crying in a shop or public transport you cannot get mad they don't know what they're doing and parents stressed enough without having a rowl over it.

To be fair the reason alot of Gen Z say unalived isn’t because they can’t handle the word dead.

It’s because video based SM (like TikTok) suppresses videos with words like dead, suicide and so on. In an attempt to stop suicide idolisation videos.

That then goes into their every day life. However, I do think it can make them slowly change how they feel about the word and made it word that they don’t like.

and, honestly, so many millennials, Gen X and boomers seemed to be taken aback when I told them my mum was ‘dead’. One person (gen x) told me it sounded to harsh and that I should use softer language.

It was frustrating, exhausting and somewhat ridiculous tbh.

do you think it’s not frustrating and exhausting for their parents??

I'm not saying this to be horrible, but if I were you I would pause in TTC. I knew the reality of having children (none of what you have described is a shock to me at all, and is totally normal in my extended family), and I have still found it very hard. If the Christmas you describe was really that much of a shock to you, I genuinely think you will really struggle with having children.

Yes this nails it - this is what it is like to have young children but the compounded effect on OP was much greater due to numbers and occasion!

OP I thought I would be relaxed, go with the flow parents. Then I got a non sleeping Velcro baby who just generally was/is very challenging to keep happy! At family gatherings he is the only toddler now so pretty easy to be adaptable for him around meal times etc - but I’m sure if there were lots of other kids it would be much more chaotic. I also did flinch the other day because while whispering is unreasonable to expect, there is no reason for an adult to stand in the hall and shout into the kitchen when they know someone is asleep in the house.

i think there is definitely a strong sense in your post that you disapprove of the parents’ choices which is what pp are reacting to, and honestly expecting under 4s to be resilient or adaptable is bonkers - they’re not developmentally capable of it.

WERE the parents pissy at people talking above a whisper, though? Do we really think that's true? Particularly considering the (pissy) attitude of the OP 😂

Chances are if you successfully conceive, you won't have four babies at once, although I am aware it could be possible. And one or two babies/toddlers will be easier to look after and cater to than four ones from different backgrounds. Not all children are fussy with food, but many at a young age will have modified food (even with BLW the 9mo would have food without salt and cut into appropriate shapes etc) and will also require help getting to and sometimes staying asleep. If you are genuinely interested have a look into the development of babies brains to discover when they become aware of permanence etc.