To hope that it doesn’t have to be like this?!

[Switchingoff]

I will probably be flamed for this as a non parent but it’s a genuine q.

Spent Christmas with 4 kids on DP’s side, ages ranging from 9mo to 2.5 (and their parents).

It was absolute non stop them clinging to or crying for there mummys, not listening when told they couldn’t do something dangerous etc (obviously mostly applies to the older ones), being super picky about food, who fed them, where they sat etc, waking up multiple times a night, parents getting pissy if anyone dared to so much as breathe too loudly when kids were napping / had gone to bed etc. Everything (Christmas meal, present opening etc) had to be timed around their completely different nap and meal times. Every possible source of light that might come under doors had to be removed. Parents had to stay with them once asleep or they would cry when they woke (several times a night) - largely applied to two of the under 2s. Or in another case spend an hour putting to sleep.

It was frustrating, exhausting and somewhat ridiculous tbh.

im sure when we were kids we had to go with the flow a bit more and would often just fall asleep in a room full of people and be put to bed when adults went up?

currently TTC but tbh this is putting me off! Does it have to be like this or can you parent differently?! Since when did EVERYTHING revolve round the kids and since when were they so unresilient?!

@Switchingoff honestly, it’s different when they’re your own. My sister has four DC and the noise levels and sometimes chaos were sometimes too much for me. And I did think oh I won’t do that when I have kids, but I adapted and got to know them as they grew and they’re now fantastic people.

I had mine quite late and of course things change when you have kids but I feel it’s a two way street, sometimes you have to give, sometimes they do. We didn’t creep around when they went to bed because we needed them to live with normal noise levels and we didn’t use black out curtains. Maybe we were lucky and had two fairly flexible humans, and maybe you will too. You can’t decide what kind of child you get, but you’ll find your way.

🤣🤣🤣

I’m going to stop replying to you now because you keep twisting what I say and putting words in my mouth.

Ok.

To answer your OP, no babies are not expected to be resilient - weird and cruel!

This is how it is/was for many of us but I would imagine you knew that when starting the thread!

Try having a baby who woke HOURLY for nearly a year. It was indescribably exhausting and difficult. Yes I would've got 'pissy' if someone had woken her!

My experience with young kids is that it is like this. You think in advance that you’ll go with the flow and won’t let them rule the roost, and that might work - but often it doesn’t and you end up doing what you need to to get by (which might mean prioritising naps, sleeping in the same room, staying with them until they’re asleep, eating at times which are convenient for the children).

Difficult as it can be to work around children’s schedules it’s often better than the alternative if the alternative is overwhelmed, insecure and miserable children who are hungry and sleep deprived.

It doesn’t last forever of course - the children grow up, they become less intensely needy, they learn to be resilient (through secure attachment not abandonment!) and adults get more of their own time back. But with young children it really is a fairly intensive level of work, and for that reason christmas can be stressful and overwhelming.

My big advice to anyone TTC is to not have very set expectations of how you’re going to parent or how your children will behave for the first couple of years. You can only parent the child you actually have, and some of them aren’t going to cope with disrupted schedules or parents expecting them to get on with things themselves. You’ll just have to see what kind of baby you have, and remind yourself that even if things are bloody difficult and intense, children do get easier with time and it won’t be that hard forever.

You seem to be assuming that all other guests also wished the children weren't there - realistically, it's unlikely that any doting grandparents even considered thinking that it would have been nicer to exclude the small children because they might be a bit irritating for their adult daughter/niece/whatever.

Can I just echo the PPs who say that

a) this is an exaggeratedly bad version of having babies/toddlers due to there being so many and the knock on effects of disturbed sleep and eating.

but

b) to some extent, unless you are incredibly lucky and get a very easy going bombproof baby/toddler, this IS what it is like. Do think carefully about whether this is something you want and can cope with. Do NOT have a baby based on the assumption that yours won’t be like this.

(I did… I read the Gina Ford routine book and thought well that’s sleep sorted… hahahaha 5 years of broken sleep later I now know sleep is 95% nature and 5% nurture).

Mine did this too. Nearly killed me. He’s now three and a much better sleeper (though still not sleeping through the night!!) and I look back and don’t know how I didn’t die in that first year.

I find this post quite sad.

We've just had Christmas with my extended family, we were the only one there with a toddler (15 months) and despite being really easy normally (though she has her moments!) she was such hard work over the past few days. She barely slept Christmas Eve (too much going on with all the people around, plus being in the same room as us), got totally overwhelmed yesterday with all the presents etc, and refused to nap. By 4pm I was in tears, but my family supported my husband and I, told us it wouldn't last etc. My sister cooked most of Christmas dinner, and everyone pitched in to help with the toddler

I'd be gutted if one of my sisters had made a post like this. If you do have your own child, you might have a rough day out of routine, and end up looking to some of those parents for support

Wowsers. I could get on board if the kids you’re on about were older but under 3s…. Sounds about right. Good luck op

If you do TTC just think that everything is going to be shit and having kids is going to be awful and then it might be okay in the end. (That's what I did and I'm ok) I say this in jest but it's pretty true to be honest.

I think reading Mumsnet alone can put people off having kids, it did almost with me!

Also I'm the most chilled out person on the planet but my kids did not get the memo and neither one of them slept. I've come out the other side and I'm laughing now (with lots more wrinkles)

@ClottedCreamScone so sorry to hear you had a similar experience. I don't mean this horribly or badly but it's nice to know I'm not alone. Genuinely never met anyone who struggled as much as me. I hallucinated, broke down to help lines, cried in public, needed the buggy for support as I was too exhausted to walk down the street unaided, I could go on. A mentally and physically really tough time.

Dd is nearly 2 now and life is so much better and we are a very happy family. She sleeps in our bed. Hope u get more sleep soon x

You were extremely lucky. HTH.

OP, it is tedious, but that can be life with small children. My toddler DD has refused her nap for the last 2 days, and by 5pm, she is a tiny drunk dictator. The simplest task (necessary things like changing a nappy or putting pj's on) become inordinately more difficult, and it's harder to get her to go to sleep because she's overtired. But she is a true fomo kid and always has been. You may or may not be lucky enough to have a fomo kid of your own. Sounds like some of these kids are highly strung like my dd. If you don't have one like this, you'll never understand and proudly proclaim that your kid will sleep in the middle of a rock concert/eat vegetables for breakfast etc etc, on threads like this. Which is also tedious. Do PP think we like or chose a more difficult life?!

Honestly, this thread is enough birth control for me. Imo it sounds like having kids makes life a bit miserable

It's not being sanctimonious. I genuinely don't understand modern parenting.

If you were talking about kids ten years old I couldn't understand but even the eldest of that age group is still a baby 🤣

Yes it’s normal. They’re babies of course they want their mum!

The difference is when it’s YOUR kid it doesn’t annoy you

I don't know, I know a lot of parents of babies and toddlers who are permanently exhausted and stressed out.

I honestly never knew such misery and joy could stem from the same tiny person simultaneously. Such a cliché, I know!

I’m loving parents of Gen-Z’ers crowing about their wonderful resilient children when it’s well known these parents have raised a generation of the world’s biggest wet wipes who can’t handle the word ‘dead’ so insist on saying ‘unalived’

Kids at that age are demanding, however some of the things you describe you don’t need to do. My kids were good sleepers and I was blessed in that respect, but they could sleep with light coming under the door or noise in the background - we didn’t creep around them and our lives didn’t stop . Once beyond being babies routine wasn’t too strict. We were really relaxed. But think parenting is becoming more child focused to the exclusion of all other needs of anyone else. You don’t need to do it though. My kids are 15 and 9 and don’t seem to be psychologically harmed by us not doing all of that, hopefully that doesn’t change or I’ll have to eat my words.

I don't think Gen Z are old enough to have raised a generation of any children yet.

Oh come off it, it's been 17 years, not 47... how much do you really, honestly think parenting has changed since you had a baby in 2006? I can absolutely promise you that people were saying all the same things that you're saying about 'modern parents' then, too.