To hope that it doesn’t have to be like this?!

[Switchingoff]

I will probably be flamed for this as a non parent but it’s a genuine q.

Spent Christmas with 4 kids on DP’s side, ages ranging from 9mo to 2.5 (and their parents).

It was absolute non stop them clinging to or crying for there mummys, not listening when told they couldn’t do something dangerous etc (obviously mostly applies to the older ones), being super picky about food, who fed them, where they sat etc, waking up multiple times a night, parents getting pissy if anyone dared to so much as breathe too loudly when kids were napping / had gone to bed etc. Everything (Christmas meal, present opening etc) had to be timed around their completely different nap and meal times. Every possible source of light that might come under doors had to be removed. Parents had to stay with them once asleep or they would cry when they woke (several times a night) - largely applied to two of the under 2s. Or in another case spend an hour putting to sleep.

It was frustrating, exhausting and somewhat ridiculous tbh.

im sure when we were kids we had to go with the flow a bit more and would often just fall asleep in a room full of people and be put to bed when adults went up?

currently TTC but tbh this is putting me off! Does it have to be like this or can you parent differently?! Since when did EVERYTHING revolve round the kids and since when were they so unresilient?!

Agree. Most people on this thread are being extremely patronising to the OP.

I have three kids close in age and I didn’t make everyone tiptoe around them.

I think having 4 under 3s was guaranteed to be a trauma. A lone baby/toddler would have been easier by far. I know I was taken everywhere and expected to settle as a baby, popped on a sofa and ignored. We weren’t silent for my cousins growing up, they could have slept through a fire alarm!

So what are you suggesting? OP tells the host to not invite any children next year so she doesn’t have to put up with all the different routines and disruptions?
If it was me and I was invited to a Christmas Day with 4 kids under three, I would politely decline. Not turn up and be pissed off that the day is revolving around small children.

No OP it doesn’t need to be like this. This is a parenting problem, not a child problem.

Many babies ( including mine) got put to bed awake at 7 and went to sleep. I’d never dream of going to bed with them or bedtime taking hours but many friends of mine used to take up to 2 hours a night until their kids were 4 or 5. That was their choice.

we never had black out blinds or silence. Lots of parents these days are just so entitled and mistaken in thinking their kid is also the centre of everyone else’s universe.

Just don’t be that parent OP and you’ll be fine.

They are very young; and Christmas is a time when children are overexcited at the best of times.

Children are often bad at sleeping when their routines are disrupted. That's a fact of life.

Perhaps it was a bit U of the parents to expect to have a Big Christmas with so many very young children around. But since they did, such issues are to be expected.

And I'm fed up with the misuse (IMO) of the terms 'resilient' and 'unresilient'. Resilience is not a moral virtue. If by 'unresilient' you mean 'difficult' or even 'naughty', just say so!

I’m saying the onus should be on the parents to take care of their kids without demanding silence and shut doors/ low lights on Christmas Day.

Because hopefully there are also lots of helpful and reasonable posters!

The parents were taking care of their kids. The best they can. They were probably all stressed and tired themselves to be fair. You have no idea what chaos may have ensued if everyone was allowed to make as much noise as they liked.

The expectation of keeping the noise down a little wasn’t the only thing OP complained about, either. She has moaned about fussy eating (in toddlers and babies, really?) and accused them all of not being resilient. And the fact that some contact nap and some don’t go to sleep without their parents being with them. That’s kids for you. You can talk about superior parenting all you like but trust me, if you get a bad sleeper you get a bad sleeper.
Seriously, it is naive at best to think that a Christmas with 4 such young children would fly by without any disruption. Either don’t go or suck it up.

Ok, should I have said adaptable then?! Never said it was a moral virtue but it can be developed. And in fact doing so is a big focus in a lot of educational settings!

Well does it have to be like that? First of all, no. I have never been one for total darkness, strict nap & bedtimes....well, I was until ds1 was about 4mo when I realised all he wanted was me, so he may as well sleep on me so I could crack on with shit instead of spending fucking hours every day trying to make him sleep in a cot (which he hated). Also, like "that" probably isn't how those kids are most of the time. Out of routine, staying at someone's house (presumably), different food, new toys, different faces....they are probably extra tired, overestimulated and therefore fussier/clingier. And parents are probably therefore extra stressed and exhausted, hence the requests to keep things quiet etc. I have 3 dc and took them to stay with friends for a weekend a few months back. Kids are pretty chilled at home but would not settle at friend's place...both nights I pretty much had to go to bed with them and couldn't leave the room or they'd scream (not like this at home!). Ended up with baby and toddler in my bed both sleeping half on me....I hardly slept, it was so uncomfortable and I couldn't even get up for the loo! Absolutely not my typical daily/nightly routine but that weekend everything went to shit. So you may be seeing them at their very worst!

OP’s original post was goady and naive. I’m not surprised she has had the responses she has had.

What's 'helpful' and 'reasonable' look like with the answers as opposed to honest!

Some of us love our babies out babies/toddlers and feel a paternal urge to look after their needs at that age. Mine are almost 17 and 12 so a long time ago for me but frankly I would move heaven and earth for them! As would my Mum and we were born mid to late 70s!

This is perfect practice for you! I’d stop TTC if you don’t like the idea of that life for 4 year minimum!!

I didn’t “moan about fussy eating” but when 12 different meals need to have ingredients bought and stored, be prepped and cleared up (not exclusively by their parents!) and then you’re trying to cater for the adult meals around it (and none of said parents are helping, too busy with the kids) it gets difficult.

then additional being fussy about not wanting to eat that piece or pasta but being happy to eat this one, or screaming about the cut up pieces and wanting the non cut up piece etc. I wasn’t even talking about that as I know that is relatively common at some points but doesn’t mean it doesn’t make things even more difficult!

Also what's the context, I haven't read your thread as busy having a Bailey's but what is the context here. Do these poor parents have any choice to come to this gathering, is it family where they can't leave the child free in peace as their parents will kick off about family and Christmas!

I agree with this. You take your small children along to an event and you want to make sure they don’t feel too overwhelmed at this age. Small toddlers and babies need to feel secure and cared for and they don’t understand what’s going on… unlike the grown ups who can just deal with it.

Once they are passed 4ish, then you can absolutely start to teach them the world doesn’t revolve around them and they have to try and be more accommodating to other people. Under 4s are too young to understand this though and trying to force this on them is only going to leave them feeling upset and confused.

The parents dictating how much ‘noise’ other adults can make on Christmas Day is seriously entitled.

Take your kids off upstairs but don’t get pissy at normal level noise, it’s not as if the adults were having a party.

The parents should either accept there will be a certain amount of noise on Christmas Day and suck it up or stay home.

Context is it’s the biggest house in the family, hosts are GPs of one child but not the others - extended family. None of them HAD to come! All stayed 2-4 nights. Again it didn’t NEED to be that long, only one family had a longish journey. Largely know they’ll get help from others in the family!

Noise wise it’s a big house - it was talking at a normal if slightly animated volume in a downstairs room at one end of the house with the door slightly open while a child was asleep upstairs (with bedroom door closed) nowhere near that part of the house.

Fine to move heaven on earth for your dc, not fine to expect other people to.

Adaptable comes with age.

2 and under aren't adaptable, they're managed as best as they can be whilst the parents retain some sanity.

You've witnessed the extreme..... Try not to judge.

Are the parents allowed to stay at home though, I'm 99 % sure most would prefer not to disrupt their babies night routine and are shattered themselves but what's the context, are they all at a family Christmas. It is very hard on that situation and kind adults usually accept that.

12 different meals?? What? So are you saying that that each individual parent was also fussy and complaining about their pasta??
Were you the one cooking? Did you chip in as well? The answer here is don’t host 4 couples with 4 kids for Christmas in your house. I bloody wouldn’t do it! Sounds like carnage.

How about you tell us how you think the day should have gone?

Totally normally and to be expected in a gathering, especially on Christmas Day.

Four children. Three meals a day. Different food (largely) and at different times.

plus 3 meals a day for the adults.

my parents’ house
And yes I did far more than my share of cooking, clearing up and everything else!