To be disappointed with SILs decision re new baby.

[ankara]

Respecting that all parents are quite within their rights to determine interaction between others and their babies, I am very disappointed and a bit 🙄 at SILs decision to put up a big sign at baby's cradle saying no touching , no lifting, no kissing.
There are no medical reasons for this. Baby is three weeks old.
None of the family have been allowed to do the above unless baby has been handed to family to give a bottle or r change baby.
I understand; that this is their first and is of course most precious but we are all a bit and also disappointed as we love babies and we're so looking forward to cuddles .
Brother just goes along with her.
Is this a new thing? My kids are nearly teens now and I've not seen this before .

Seems the worries about contact with the baby are mysteriously suspended when someone might change its shitty nappy 🤔.

I don’t know how protecting a vulnerable, newborn baby is neurotic though? Genuinely? I admit the sign is a little off but given the OP’s reaction to the request, the SIL may have deemed it necessary to GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS.

When I had my own babies I was thrilled when extended family members and friends wanted to hold my little boys. Newborn snuggles are glorious!

If I had given birth recently, and in light of the crisis levels of babies <6 months fighting for their lives in ICU’s because of RSV, then I would absolutely be doing the same as the SIL in this instance.

This post is ALL about the OP and HER desires (and the obvious flagrant dislike of her SIL) without actually stopping to think about it. She will have plenty of time to cuddle the little one after such time as they’ve been vaccinated and are a bit sturdier. It’s not rocket science.

Just to add DS was in SCBU for his first 3 weeks as was 7 weeks premature and the nurses were very clear there was to be no touching other than from mums and dads. It's not because of 'medical issues' they're babies with no immunity from germs etc, they're not toys.

@Justforxmas2023 Thank you I hadn't read the previous posts involving this person. This is such a long thread already, I just read the OP and responded to that! There are some incredibly entitled posters on here. The amount of people arguing that babies have survived for a long time seem to forget at death in infancy used to be very common. My grandmother was one of fourteen and swear about half of them if not more died.

@Justforxmas2023 In infancy, I should add!

But newborn babies will never understand or remember that urge that people seem to have to hold them and kiss them etc. They just need their parents. They might have to live with the consequences long term though of some snotty relative getting their face all close and slobbering all over them.

Yep , perhaps you'll be able to buy a little signs soon. 🙄

I'm all for treating newborns and their mothers with respect and care. And what the mum says goes, regardless.

But little signs? Except when you've been given the ok to change a nappy?

Sorry back on planet earth, give us a break.

Something I’ve learnt over the years is that what other people do with and how they raise their own children is best left up to them & it’s best not to judge or comment.
Personally I don’t see the fascination with newborn cuddles as they’re boring as sin.
I find it odd that you think your BIL is just going along with it, then later state if he’s not around is when others are allowed a quick hold. Are you sure he’s not controlling? Does she look / act concerned when he returns and someone is holding baby?
Its the sort of thing I can imagine my ex doing in order to stop my family bonding with a child… Is Dad of newborn your husbands brother?
Or you could just ask gently.. “So SIL/BIL is not allowing loved ones to hold the baby new advice from the health board?” My SIL used to do things differently to I did only a few years earlier and asked with genuine interest and just made it a non judgemental question… I would just say “Things are constantly changing and studies constantly being done aren’t they!!…. We were told to do this, has that changed?” And we’d have an adult conversation about new advice and how some study had found that X & Y is better for baby than Z was.

I have heard advice about not letting people kiss babies because babies have caught heroes off adults kissing them, and the immune system simply hasn’t had enough to strengthen it and baby has actually died…. So if new parents have been told about this then I suspect that’s their reasoning.

To be fair I never kiss other people’s kids anyway, a quick hug with my nieces and nephews is plenty … but I think it’s a generation thing… my nan who is almost 100 seems obsessed with kissing all the kids and always wants to do it on the lips, grabbing their faces with her unwashed poo fingers (she never washes hands after using toilet/doesn’t even have a sink in her toilet!) and pretty much forces them to kiss her on the lips… my DD bloody hates it and always refused to kiss her and my mum would blackmail her with whatever awful thing she could think of!! Now my DD is older (early teen) I’ve told her multiple times just to hug her because she doesn’t like kisses, she listened for a few weeks but now grabs her face again and it makes my poor DD avoid seeing her all together.. especially as my mum still tries to push it but rather than using ‘if you want your Christmas/Birthday etc presents or if you kiss her I’ll give you some sweets .. she now says crap like ‘she could die tomorrow because she’s old!… I’ve told her off multiple times and it really posses me off… but like I say it’s a generation thing as in ‘both their days’ women shouldn’t say no.. children were seen and not heard, and if you dared to disobey you got the wooden spoon, slipper or belt!…
I’ve pointed out so many times that my DD is allowed to say no to someone kissing her but it goes over my mothers head and she still gets angry and says FGS just kiss her!
I’ve told my mum I just hug my nieces and nephews and she says ‘I LIKE TO KISS MY GRANDCHILDREN!’… so I imagine my mum will also be forcing herself into my DD’s kids if she has then one day!
Anyway all that to just say respect their decision, kisses and cuddles shouldn’t be given without consent and who knows what advice they’ve been given… it’s probably changed again since covid !

I just assume that most people are intelligent enough not to go near a baby if they've got any suspicion of a cold or anything that would make the baby ill, but perhaps the OP's SIL's relatives are all idiots and can't be trusted.

That may actually be the case here and if it is then I agree with you. Thanks for your considered post, it's made me more sympathetic to the OP's SIL.

And many also died or had life-changing injuries in the same breath.

People with such thoughts quickly change their minds when it’s their baby or someone close to them that ends up poorly or worse. There is a reason countless medical professionals and studies recommend certain limits to contact when it comes to newborns and infants and people who use the “well other babies survived” are usually the ones dismissing recommendations and putting young babies at risk and the first to say “I didn’t think it would be that bad” or some other type of excuse for caring more about their wants than the well-being of a young baby

Parents obviously see risks differently to each other and they are more than welcome to decide what level of risk they choose to take, but to shame some for doing the most they can to protect their own child from illness in a time where several illnesses are rampant at once is silly.

Despite Covid, you still have people who haven’t learned anything and go to other people’s home, knowing they’re poorly, but taking it on themselves and deciding, it’s nothing or deciding to inform people after the fact.

It's the opposite, did you not understand the OPs post? She's complaining that when a nappy needs changed, when a bottle is to be given or when the baby is upset the SIL is asking her DH to do it (or doing it herself) and only if then not available will a family member be allowed.

I dont remember it being specified that the family aren't being offered a chance to cuddle when the little one is up (she says at one point if they offer to do the above whilst they are having a cuddle - might be just how i read that), just that the above and that they aren't allowed to randomly pick up the child from its cot, or kiss him .

The sign is odd, but the stuff OP is complaining about not getting first dibbs on is a bit odder imo.

Yes , I remember explicitly asking GP and ped about this. Latter said don’t go looking for germs and the GP said : “ just being out of mum’s tummy is sufficient exposure at first.” There are environmental germs everywhere we don’t even blink at that babies haven’t yet developed immunity to and breast milk doesn’t cover everything.

There are immunity issues with new born. As they get older they naturally crawl and put things in their mouths but new borns are incredible vulnerable and do need protection.
Especially in winter without a doubt.

The baby will not benefit from someone other than a parent holding them but you will benefit. But the baby could be at risk from whatever germs you are harbouring.

Put rhe baby first.

That’s the issue though - many people aren’t. its something that’s become more problematic since covid and peoples selfishness has increased.

Pre covid people were incredibly considerate to us due to my youngest DD’s health. They’d give us a heads up at the slightest sniffle so we could avoid them.

She’s recently been - knowingly and deliberately - exposed to multiple colds, covid (positive tests) twice and chicken pox. All by people who felt their wishes to not see any plans changed were more important than the health of a child who has had two icu stints in the last year as well as 14 other hospital stays.

. I know several who wouldn’t think twice about visiting a newborn with a heavy cold or cold sore. People aren’t as considerate or intelligent as many people assume and it’s highly likely the SIL has experienced that if she’s resorted to such measures

It wasnt cuddles that caused higher infant mortality in the past.

Interestingly, many non-western societies have centuries-old traditions of actually secluding/confining the mum and baby and limiting visits for about 6 weeks before introducing the baby to the wider world (eg. sitting the month, pantang, kyrkynan shygaru...)

I think this sums it up. Three weeks is tiny - and I’m actually wondering how many of the memories of cuddles and passing babies round who loved it and formed incredible bonds with the people they probably didn’t even open their little screwed up eyes to glance at with their limited vision etc are not more related to this stage about 8 weeks on ( which arrives very quickly) when the baby is actually becoming properly interactive.

I couldn’t tell if this event with the sign was at SIL’s house but, if so, I think the oddest thing she has done is to be hosting on this level 3 weeks after a c section and new baby. Had she waited the sign might not have been necessary. Is that why so many of us find the sign odd? I can only really remember my parents and ILs and individual friends and relatives, perhaps with one dc in tow, coming in those first weeks. It goes fast - provided there is support.
A quick hug to all the mums on here who have recounted stories of scary times with their LO.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CkqZIAIg_kj/?igsh=MWc5ZzhyOWg1OHd0cA==

Those who say it's not a problem unless there's a health conditionay never had had a newborn with a health condition because they're brand new, you don't know if they have underlying conditions yet. We didn't know about my son's low blood sugars or epilepsy until he almost died at 3 days old, we didn't know about his chronic tonsillitis linked to an actual issue with his tonsils until every virus almost took him out, we didn't know about my daughter's asthma when she got RSV at 5 weeks old, she has the flu now at 2.5 and it's been horrific for her chest so if she'd caught it around that time I can only imagine.

The reason you take precautions around a newborn is also because they are unknown entity. Some kids will sail through rsv, it'll look like a cold, some will even sail through flu, mine don't. We're far enough in now that everyone in our circle knows the score with being careful around ours but we got plenty of ridicule when they were babies even after several hospitalisations each.

Those saying they can't bond with a child if they can't kiss a newborn? Get a life, how narcissistic to treat a newborn like such a object.

Stop judging. Respect her rules or don't bother with the baby. I'd be incredibly annoyed if my SIL would post stuff like this on Mumsnet. We never cut new mothers any slack it's always about in laws wanting cuddles or other stuff to satisfy their own needs when a new baby arrives and then being judgy when they don't get it...'in my days....' I'm sick to the teeth of this attitude. Have you asked SIL what you can do to support? Or too busy posting on Mumsnet slacking her off?

I think those of us who have been in hospital with our little ones due to a virus etc have a much different opinion to those who haven't

@5128gap We don't know though do we? Obviously the cuddle itself isn't the killer but what the cuddler was carrying could have put the health of the baby in jeopardy. There were obviously lots of reasons why many children didn't survive past infancy back then but this could have been one of them. My grandma had a younger brother who died of quite a severe bout of illness as a baby. I can't remember what it was exactly but I remember being told that he got poorly and remained poorly for a while before passing away. Who knows how he got ill? Either way, if there's a way that visitors can remain considerate and mindful of a newborn baby's health then I really don't understand the problem. You can cuddle them when they get a bit older. As I said previously, the only person who really benefits from the interaction is you. So this insistence of holding a fresh out of the womb baby whom isn't your own is based on nothing but self indulgence at best.

Good for her for sticking to it. My baby got rsv and bronchiolitis, kept stopping breathing and ended up in hospital. Wished i had kept everyone away

I do think precautions around passing on illness has become more of a heated issue post covid. Before, it was seen as pragmatic, but now there are those who associate it with loss of autonomy, being dictated to etc and it really raises indignant responses in many. I had even wondered if that was an aspect of OP’s post.

Just found out a friend’s new baby boy is in hospital now due to catching RSV over Christmas. What’s a cold to you and me is dangerous to babies! Definitely worth remembering that when demanding new baby cuddles.
The sister’s sign is fine, especially as it is a permanent reminder, if she feels like people will override her rules or not ask her if she leaves the room