Having to do prayers on Christmas Day

[Fretfulmum]

DH is Christian and he and his family are quite religious- goes to church weekly etc. I’m not Christian and I don’t attend church or do anything religious, I’m pretty much an atheist. We hosted DH’s parents and siblings and partners today. His parents wanted to do prayers before Christmas lunch. I told DH I’m not happy about having to do it but just let them get on with it whilst I sat there. In the evening, they wanted to do more. I’d had enough and I left the room without saying anything and let them crack on with it. Half way through the DC (toddlers) realised I wasn’t there and left the room to see where I was so they missed some of it. DH was so angry with me that I didn’t partake as it was a “whole family unit” thing and it disrespected his whole family? Apparently I ruined the day and now he’s sleeping in the spare room. AIBU that’s it my house and if I don’t want to do religious prayers that I sit out and go into another room ?

Oh FFS! Of course the OP was not being unreasonable! The majority of people in the U.K. are not Christians so prayers wouldn’t feature in most households. I don’t know people who would sit around praying on Christmas Day, especially not for 5 minutes. That is long and drawn out, especially for young children. I don’t know many ‘Christian’s’ in real life but MN has a disproportionate number of them who appear to be the evangelical types who berate anyone who dares to have a different belief to them. The OP is showing respect to the family’s beliefs but it doesn’t appear that they are respecting her beliefs!

Exactly this. My 12 year old is resolutely atheist. But on the occasions that I have made him go to church I just tell him to either listen to the messages in the prayers as they are often just about peace, love, forgiveness, gratitude etc and therefore relevant regardless of religious persuasion. Failing that, just use the time for peaceful self-reflection.

That's a valid choice.

Another valid choice is to politely decline to join in. A choice that should be respected.

It’s a religious festival and saying a few prayers is an important part of it for many people.

It's hybrid pagan/religious. Absolutely not purely religious. Saying grace is one thing, but being forced to participate in active praying in your own home when you don't believe is unacceptable.

It's fair enough if you don't believe that Jesus is God and don't wish to celebrate His birth on 25/12.

However, knowing how much this means to your husband and in-laws, it's not a big deal to sit through it and maybe even participate in the prayers. The prayers are meaningless to you, but worshiping Christ is important to them.

I'm a Christian and Christmas Day is primarily about worship for me. I not fond of the commercialisation of Christmas but I participate in it as it keeps my family happy.

What is that?

You are not unreasonable. It very much depends on the type of prayer in my opinion. Quick bowed head, familiar Lord's Prayer/ Grace, fine. But if you're expected to riff your own prayers or do anything that requires more active participation (which it sounds like you were) totally ok to opt out! TBH. I think it's weird they'd want you to join in. I'd you're that way inclined sure a non believer going through the motions brings down the vibe? I would feel inhibited if I was a believer next to someone who wasn't, especially in their house. I would be grateful they'd given me space to do my thing.

After hearing the details and clarification I'm 100% with you on this. You've been polite. I know exactly how it feels to have someone try to force their religion on you. DH was out of line treating you that way. I wonder if he was caught up in the moment with his family there, like peer pressure, embarrassment kind of thing. Hopefully he apologizes and is more respectful in the future. Not to be high and mighty at all, but I'm OLD right now and almost all religions are a dealbreaker for me. I never want to deal with it ever again. So I understand your boundary. You know you didn't do anything wrong! Don't let anyone make you feel bad.

My initial reaction to your OP was that it doesn't hurt you just to sit there quietly while they pray. But then I thought, hold on a second, why is it ok that you were forced to be subjected to their beliefs for the sake of 'being polite'? Surely the most respectful way of managing this would be for the religious people to go to a quiet room and say their prayers, then return to the table when ready? Especially if it's your house!

Expecting the OP to be holding hands and joining in is unreasonable of them.

There's nothing wrong with the OP having left the room beforehand and letting them all get on with it by themselves.

Respect works two ways.

😮oh wow they actually expected you to actively pray?? That's so wrong.

But OP shouldn’t have hosted them on one of their holiest of days then?

It’s like offering to host Eid celebrations if you’re not Muslim and haven’t spent the past month fasting. It doesn’t make sense.

Nobody under any circumstances should be expected to follow a religious observance if they do not follow that religion.

Hosted is totally irrelevant.

I don't think it's irrelevant at all. If you host religious people to celebrate a religious occasion there will be prayer. It's kind of the point.

This. All the 'well it's a religious holiday' stuff is nonsense.

The tree, the lights, the food, the evergreens, mistletoe and all that, all pagan. Pretty much all cultures (that have dark-light seasons) have a mid-winter celebration to get you through the dark months. It's really unlikely Jesus was born around the midwinter solstice when the cultures already existing were celebrating their festivals with food, lights and evergreens. Ditto Easter, April 1, New Year, Harvest festivals of all sorts, all plonked onto pagan festivals.

I suppose if the Christians want to keep presents, the star on the tree, carols and praying, oh and do it in April, the rest of us will keep December 25th, trees, lights, food, evergreens and all that. Including Terry's chocolate oranges because they are CLEARLY heathen.

As for your DH OP, it won't get better. He doesn't respect your difference as much as he thinks. And the children will choose at some point and that will be an issue.

There will be prayer.
A non religious person should not be expected to join in.

They should not have accepted the invitation if they were not prepared to accept this.

i’m an atheist but always join in prayers because it can’t hurt right. And if it makes others happy who cares.

What if 1 person doesn't want to?
Shouldn't that be respected?

They could've declined the invitation then?
And let's be honest, Christmas has no religious meaning for a whole lot of people these days. But Christmas gatherings/presents etc are a part of our culture anyway.

It’s like offering to host Eid celebrations if you’re not Muslim and haven’t spent the past month fasting.

I eat eggs but I don't do Lent. For that matter I have regularly celebrated (with friends) Hanukkah, Eid and Christmas despite being neither Jewish nor Muslim nor Christian. And no one has given a fuck.

I'd like the more miserable Christians to choose. Either the UK is culturally Christian, in which case atheists (and everyone else) have to put up with worship in schools, bishops in the Lords and all the other trapping we are forced into. OR it's not, in which case we can all stop pretending Christmas is religious. People want to have it both ways and it's maddening.

@Fretfulmum I voted YABU because you seem to expect practicing Christians to not want to do the religious activities that are meaningful to them on one of the holiest celebrations of their year. But I think your husband and his family are being V unreasonable too, because they seem to be expecting a kind of hypocrisy from you. Could you ask them, "If I don't believe in my heart, why do you want me to mouth empty words?"

@MrsTerryPratchett surely if you want to split the holidays it makes more sense for the (neo?) pagans to celebrate on Winter Solstice, as would have been done in the British Isles and northern Europe prior to Christendom? Christmas has been celebrated on 25th December by Eastern and Western churches since since at least 336CE, you might be a bit late to get them to shift it now.

you might be a bit late to get them to shift it now.

I'm VERY stubborn, though. Happy to have my version run from the 22nd to the 25th though. Get a few more days off that way.

Sure. But the OP is asking are they being unreasonable and i think, on balance, it’s easier just to at least sit through the prayers to keep the peace and maintain a family tradition.

In a perfect world a perfect family wouldn’t be offended by non believers sitting out but we aren’t in a perfect world and there are no perfect families. When we choose to get married we need to accept that the families we marry into may do things in a different way and have different customs but we are part of a new bigger family now and we need to make some adjustments from time to time. Like I might sit through prayers. Or do different christmas traditions. Or eat food that isn’t my favourite. Or get up at a different time to what i’d prefer. But that’s literally the point of getting married - to join families - otherwise we’d just all cohabit forever. It’s also, basically, the spirit of christmas, to compromise a bit and get along.

merry christmas everyone x

No it's not. What OP is describing isn't regular behaviour by practicing Christians even at Christmas. Repeated free-form extended prayer sessions with hand-holding and forced participation of somebody they know to be a non-believer? OP doesn't give the background of her DH and his family but this sounds like fundamentalist sect-adjacent practices. Mainstream practicing Christianity would involve attending services and a blessing before meals. Possibly carols and reading out the Christmas gospel before presents are opened.

As an aside - I find it both sad and repellent the way "Christian" has become an accepted synonym for "extreme right-wing evangelical" (or in the US case, Christopher nationalist) for both adherents and non-believers in much of the Anglosphere, without any pushback from the vast majority of moderate mainstream believers. Quite visible in the discussion here as well.

I agree with you. I have also celebrated Eid and Hanukkah with friends (not hosted though obviously) in the past and part of celebrating with them was observing their traditions on the sidelines at least.

I also agree you either do it or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways. My kids know that if they want to celebrate Christmas, have a tree and presents etc then they have to go to church of Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and recognise what the day is about. Likewise Easter, no chocolate eggs if no lent or church on Good Friday.

My 12 year old plays along because he likes the trappings of Christmas and Easter and out of respect for the rest of the family but 100% does not believe and that is fine.