Having to do prayers on Christmas Day

[Fretfulmum]

DH is Christian and he and his family are quite religious- goes to church weekly etc. I’m not Christian and I don’t attend church or do anything religious, I’m pretty much an atheist. We hosted DH’s parents and siblings and partners today. His parents wanted to do prayers before Christmas lunch. I told DH I’m not happy about having to do it but just let them get on with it whilst I sat there. In the evening, they wanted to do more. I’d had enough and I left the room without saying anything and let them crack on with it. Half way through the DC (toddlers) realised I wasn’t there and left the room to see where I was so they missed some of it. DH was so angry with me that I didn’t partake as it was a “whole family unit” thing and it disrespected his whole family? Apparently I ruined the day and now he’s sleeping in the spare room. AIBU that’s it my house and if I don’t want to do religious prayers that I sit out and go into another room ?

I have taken part in Hindu prayers in my time, and also worship. Also attended mass many times - though not taken communion as I am not in communion with Rome. Neither atheist nor agnostic but a cultural Christian. I take part in change ringing, too, and understand that when I ring bells I am carrying out an act of worship as well as having fun. I would have no objection to sitting quietly with my hands folded during prayers. I'd be happy to teach my DCs about Christmas etc and read stories about it, too (did to my now adult children who are both atheists, their grandfather on my side was a lapsed RC, on the other side a Hindu - I also taught them about Hinduism, as well as reading Greek, Norse and Egyptian myths to them). I think you were rude to walk out. Had you arranged to be doing something else that is ok, if discussed. As for DCs, they have a right to know about their father's religion and to be taught about it, so that they can choose to believe or not. It is not, as some people have suggested, a problem for the future, but a necessity you need to grasp. I'd start by acquiring a good children's Bible and some good versions of the Nativity - there are lots. Denying DCs religious knowledge is just as bad as forcing it on them. It's not forcing to read them stories so that they are aware of the Christian heritage, which will come in useful whatever they decide about belief (try reading Lord of the Flies, or Lord of the Rings, without an understanding of the Christian mythos; this applies to most English novels btw).
NB Christmas is a Christian festival in a world where Christianity is persecuted. I think it is reasonable for those who believe to say prayers. Were I them I would keep things short - God (if he exists) perfectly understands family dynamics and that Christmas is about being happy and with family as well.

I would have no objection to sitting quietly with my hands folded during prayers.

This was not an option.

As for DCs, they have a right to know about their father's religion and to be taught about it

That is not the OP’s responsibility.

Denying DCs religious knowledge is just as bad as forcing it on them.

Nobody is doing this.

All this information is in the OP’s posts.

You’ve embarrassed your husband and made yourself look crass and ill-mannered. How hard is it just to sit quietly for a couple of mins, completely lacking in respect for the family you’ve married into. Very arrogant and ignorant, it’s like something a teenager would do.

I do not think they are doing this, I think they merely expect that their belief is accepted. Walking out is very rude.

NB Christmas is a Christian festival in a world where Christianity is persecuted.

In the U.K. it is a secular and religious festival and Christians are not persecuted.

DC's have a right to know about their father's religion and to be taught about it.
Educating your DCs is the responsibility of both parents. Understanding religion is about being educated. How can you decide you are an atheist if you don't know what you are rejecting?

Do you think that because you haven’t read the OP’s posts?

I've honestly never known a thread like this for not reading the OP's posts; it's all there, but still some stampede to comment on things which have already been clarified, often repeatedly

Why on earth do some do this - I mean, what the heck's the point??

Sigh, if they are happy clappy it can be a bit of a pain, true. They should bear in mind your feelings as well as theirs, too.

Possibly. I will go and do due diligence.

The OP is not preventing her husband from teaching her children about his beliefs, or preventing them from taking part in the prayers.

I see it the other way round. You don't have to believe in anything by default and besides, kids are taught about different religions at school, plus the dad can explain his own to his kids if he wants to. The mum has no duty in this regard and can give her own views. When they are adults they can decide what the believe in, or not.

Please at LEAST read the OP's posts BEFORE responding. She didn't walk out. She left the room minutes before the second session. Jesus fujking christ!

@Lesserspottedmama You embarrass yourself by not READING THE FUCKING THREAD or at least OP's posts, before responding. It was a ten minute (2 x 5 minutes) religious performance, and she wasn't allowed to 'sit quiet', she was expected to hold hands, participate, recite and chant. "Sitting quietly" WAS NOT AN OPTION!!!! And this, is in OP's own home! That she owned before she met her 'D'H.

You should have done that BEFORE responding, that way you wouldn't have made such an idiot of yourself!

Yes, they juust show what fking ignorant idiots they are. Jaysus, it doesn't take long to read all the OP's replies via Read all before responding. It's just basic courtesy and common sense. Some on her are pig ignorant and lazy. They embarrass themselves. And they completely waste their own time replying about something that was cleared up pages/days ago. I mean, truly, how fking hard can it be, to check all OP responses before posting? It's just wasting everyone's time and shows such ignorance, laziness and disrespect.

If you have no beliefs about prayers at all then the only real life actual outcome is whether or not Christmas goes smoothly.

If on the other hand you would like people to respect what you believe so you don't feel like a hypocrite, it becomes a different conversation. A conversation about how people should respect each other's beliefs.

Here, there are only 12 replies by the OP, you don't need to read the entire thread, just the OP's posts. It's so fricken easy!! https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4970162-having-to-do-prayers-on-christmas-day?postsby=Fretfulmum

Cancel the prayers, OP!

Seriously, does anyone else feel this thread is becoming the new "cancel the cheque"? 😁

How can you decide you are an atheist if you don't know what you are rejecting?

This is such bollocks. Firstly, it's shoved down our throats from everywhere from birth. Secondly, it's evangelising nonsense. "Just let me tell you the good news so you can decide". No ta, I'll teach my children all about culture and difference and belief myself without having to pray to do it. And about religion in the same way I teach them about addiction and stamp-collecting. Some people do it, they feel some comfort doing it, it brings them joy but I don't need to try stamp-collecting or heroin to know it's not for me. And it can be benign but it's also caused some horrifying behaviour and justified a lot more.

I hope everyone teaches everything from the Inquisition to the Nazis before their children 'decide' to believe.

How can you decide you are an atheist if you don't know what you are rejecting?

Easy. No one has provided me with evidence that the god they believe in is real because there is no evidence beyond anecdotal, which isn't reliable because of confirmation bias.

To turn it around: as a rational human being, how can you decide you believe in something for which there is no real & objective evidence?

We don't impose Christmas, people embrace it. Unfortunately, because for most the religious element has gone, both the Christian element and the pagan bits (not that many, but some), the entire thing has been roped into the consumer society and drives the economy. It is difficult to row back from this sort of capitalism but we need to, if only to make the planet less polluted. Christianity has been the religion of the UK - and most of Europe - for over a thousand years so it is hardly imposing a festival on people. It is now celebrated as the Saturnalia, the feast of the returning sun, but it might be better if we actually remembered why we are celebrating, esp. currently.
All that aside, two things strike me from the OP's posts. The first is that the festivals of her religion don't get the same treatment as Christmas, and I think they should. The second is that her in-laws strike me as the sort of people Jesus called the Christ condemned as all show and no substance. Lots of prayers and attendance at church, ostentatious praying at Christmas, not just grace. I hope they do good works somewhere, if not, why not?
Glad someone mentioned one can read all an OP's posts in one go, did not know that until now and used to plough through, which always causes disjuncts.
NB Renaming Christmas has been suggested and every time has been greeted with disapprobation even by those who do not see it as a religious festival. I think doing that would mean we would consign to the dustbin the last festival we have left in this country, for we hardly celebrate Easter much and Whitsun has gone down the pan. About time we revived them all instead, perhaps.

I do not believe anything without evidence, that includes being atheist. You will know that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence?

Yes, I do know that. But there has been nothing, anecdotal or otherwise, that gives me any reason to believe in some sort of higher power.

People have been trying to prove the existence of a god for hundreds of years and have managed to produce nothing. So what am I supposed to do with that?

There is no evidence. The battery of faith alone is required - as St John of the Cross pointed out, there will be no answer. I am vaguely agnostic btw.