Having to do prayers on Christmas Day

[Fretfulmum]

DH is Christian and he and his family are quite religious- goes to church weekly etc. I’m not Christian and I don’t attend church or do anything religious, I’m pretty much an atheist. We hosted DH’s parents and siblings and partners today. His parents wanted to do prayers before Christmas lunch. I told DH I’m not happy about having to do it but just let them get on with it whilst I sat there. In the evening, they wanted to do more. I’d had enough and I left the room without saying anything and let them crack on with it. Half way through the DC (toddlers) realised I wasn’t there and left the room to see where I was so they missed some of it. DH was so angry with me that I didn’t partake as it was a “whole family unit” thing and it disrespected his whole family? Apparently I ruined the day and now he’s sleeping in the spare room. AIBU that’s it my house and if I don’t want to do religious prayers that I sit out and go into another room ?

So why doesn’t that flow both ways? Why can DH’s family not respect that OP does not want to actively participate in their prayers?

Why is it okay for someone to demand that you worship their god?

For me, I’d happily sit in respectful silence for something akin to The Lord’s Prayer or grace. That said, OP seems to imply that her in-laws prayers strike quite a different tone and involve saying a lot of things that she actively doesn’t agree with. If this is fire-and-brimstone stuff, for example, I wouldn’t want to be present for that.

This is also all against a backdrop of the OP’s family’s ongoing refusal to accept her beliefs.

That Christians deserve respect, but don’t have to afford it to others, feels like a running theme on this thread (although not a direct response to your comments).

That sounds more like an abusive relationship where you have to walk on eggshells so as not to cause offence.

And if OP had prevented them praying, you'd have a point. She just didn't want to join in.

Do you think atheists should be routinely forced to pray? Because that sounds, what's the word, abusive.

Yes I think you are unreasonable. It's Christmas they are Christian. But take the religion out of it because that always has atheists showing no respect for Christianity. Your own husband wanted you to stay in the room for 5 minutes to be with him for something that is important to him and has been important to him for a long time. Yes you are unreasonable. What if he had asked you to come see something important to him in the garden or watched him play a song on an instrument would you refuse because you don't want to put shoes on or his taste in music sucks? No you humor him because he's your husband and that is important to him

Those are ridiculous comparisons, but to stick with them.

It’s one thing to ask your spouse to listen to you play a musical instrument.

Its quite another thing to demand that you join the band.

I would make it very clear to DH that he married you knowing that you are not a Christian or a hypocrite. It is disrespectful of them to attempt to coerce you into a practice that makes you uncomfortable. I would point out that you respect that his beliefs are important to him and his parents and I would say that he and his parents are welcome to say prayers in your home - but as you have , shopped, cleaned and prepared the meal, etc, as a sign of respect for YOUR beliefs, you should be ASKED if you want to participate, as it is equally your house too. Make it clear that you and the kids will not be forced into participating. If the kids want to join in, then fine. If they wander off, that’s fine too.

because that always has atheists showing no respect for Christianity.

No, why should we? I have great respect for a great many Christians. But not Christianity. And you can't take the religion out of it. It isn't the same as looking at a flower or listening to an instrument.

Some of us have been forced to participate in Christian religion since school. Some of us were shamed for walking out of prayer in assembly 40 years ago. We're done. If you and yours hadn't insisted on everyone joining in using the law, we'd maybe retain some fellow feeling. Add everything from the Catholic Church abuse to the Magdalene laundries and residential schools... I certainly feel less inclined to join in with Christianity than any other religion.

So if someone important to you insisted that you join them in praying to a non-Christian god, and chant things that you fundamentally did not agree with, you would duly oblige?

Aren’t people entitled to their own beliefs?

For 5 minutes, knowing that you had married into a religious family and it was one of the most important days in the religious calendar, you were rude to walk away.

I am atheist but get that Christmas is about more than Santa for many people. It's not difficult to respect that for 5 minutes. And especially not when it literally involves sitting there.

You should apologise and then put in place a plan going forwards otherwise it is going to become a thing in your marriage.

If they are like this with you, imagine the pressure your kids will be under. The issue is your DH says and does the right things when his parents aren’t around but resorts to a deferential little boy when they are around.

Once he’s done sulking you need to reiterate that you are not Christian and this isn’t news to him. If he wants someone who is Christian or a wife that will be dictated to in her own home by his parents, then he needs to decide if being married to me is something he can ‘live’ with.

I grew up in a Christian house and when in the company of others I will lower my head and use the time to think about random stuff. However, in my own home, I will not be dictated to by guests and go along with things because my other half lacks a backbone. Good luck with you children ‘choosing’ their own path with a father and PIL like yours.

You seem like yet another that hasn’t read the OP’s posts. She isn’t being asked to merely sit in the room, she’s being asked to participate in their prayer by chanting things that she finds objectionable.

Also, why does “well you married into a Christian family” keep popping up, but not the opposite?

Christmas IS NOT the most important date for Christians.

OP

It is down right rude to try to force you to take part in a religious event you do not believe in in your own home.

I refer back to my reply. So called Christians on this thread - many of your responses are so unhelpful, hostile and unloving. You represent what you supposedly follow very poorly. You even misuse scripture to put this woman down and that's not ok. All this does is polarise things even more, well done!

@GuessItsANameChange

It's not comparable. I've happily joined multi faith prayers. If it was prayer to something I don't believe I'm I'd probably direct the prayer to the god I believe in silently in my head.

But the point is OP is atheist. It's a protected belief and deserves respect certainly but her belief is there is no God. So she's not offending her beliefs in that 5 minutes she's just doing something she considers pointless. It's not comparable to ask if a Christian would prey to a different god to humor others because the very act is against their faith.

But it seems that the DH's religious behaviour escalated somewhat in the presence of his wider family.

It sounds to me as if OP and her DH have tolerated each other's beliefs up to now. Today, in the presence of family members he sees infrequently, the DH went along with their preference for extended prayer. That is also OK, even though it isn't usual for him.

The bit that is very definitely not OK is expecting OP to go along with this and sulking because she didn't.

Incorrect. It would be offending my beliefs and my absence of faith to participate in such a ceremony. Its an act of subjugation. Its a removal of an equal right.

It's a line of reasoning that always ends with atheists being pushed around by the religious. Some go along with it, others don't.

Equally some of us don't like the mockery that it requires. If you demand that I disrespect someone else's religion by making bibble bibble noises under my breath in order to mimic an act of prayer you would find me verbose on how it would be poor manners.

All for the aesthetic that everyone in a room is of one faith? Come on. It doesn't take much effort to treat atheists with a modicum of respect and give them back agency in social situations.

Freedom from religion please.

Atheism isn’t just neutrality - some kinds of Christianity can have offensive elements e.g lack of tolerance & sexism or doctrine that some find toxic eg on original sin. Obviously there are massive differences in Christian beliefs, but it should be possible to understand why quietly leaving the room could have been the best option in the circumstances.

The OP is not talking about all Christians and all atheists, she is discussing a specific group of people.

It seems that in this case her actions have exposed different expectations that should have been honestly discussed, and that is a good thing.

I'm fecked if I'd put up with elongated praying at the table. The only necessary response is shut up and eat before it gets cold

Good luck with that, if - as it appears here - there's a performative aspect to this

With some, all that's likely to achieve is an even longer chant/whatever

You know why we celebrate Christmas don’t you? You were rude, but your dh isn’t exactly showing Christian forgiveness. He sounds a bit twatty tbh.

Yes. We celebrate it because of religions and traditions that predate Christianity selfishly hijacking it as their own.

If you have a tree, tinsel, lights etc then your Christmas isn't solely Christian. HTH.

But she was expected to speak the words though.

Right. So atheists should have to say words they disagree with but not Christians. But it's always atheists who are disrespectful to Christianity.

Because it corresponds with traditional mid winter celebrations particularly the solstice.

That is why so much emphasis is placed on Christmas when it isn’t the most important holy day in the Christian calendar.