Having to do prayers on Christmas Day

[Fretfulmum]

DH is Christian and he and his family are quite religious- goes to church weekly etc. I’m not Christian and I don’t attend church or do anything religious, I’m pretty much an atheist. We hosted DH’s parents and siblings and partners today. His parents wanted to do prayers before Christmas lunch. I told DH I’m not happy about having to do it but just let them get on with it whilst I sat there. In the evening, they wanted to do more. I’d had enough and I left the room without saying anything and let them crack on with it. Half way through the DC (toddlers) realised I wasn’t there and left the room to see where I was so they missed some of it. DH was so angry with me that I didn’t partake as it was a “whole family unit” thing and it disrespected his whole family? Apparently I ruined the day and now he’s sleeping in the spare room. AIBU that’s it my house and if I don’t want to do religious prayers that I sit out and go into another room ?

Trouble is Midwinter Festival doesn't really work if you live in the southern hemisphere.

But you are right that for the majority it is simply a two day bank holiday with booze, food and to give/ receive gifts.

@Tacotortoise

"Christmas is a Christian festival (so religious) which was superimposed onto a variety of pagan festivals - Saturnalia, Yuletide etc - which were based around the winter solstice. These were also religious festivals, just ones that prayed to older gods."

+++

All true and widely recognised, but it has been associated with Christianity since the 9th century so I guess Christianity has had the longest claim to it.

But given most people don't celebrate any religious element to it then let's be honest about this and rename it or get rid of it.

Sorry I just have a mental image of Noddy Holder shouting this.

I’ll vote Santaday, which should fall on the last Saturday of the year.

Then we could have Whigfield slightly rework their 90s hit into a festive song.

Like most non Christians who were brought up in a culturally Christian way, I have no issue if friends wish to say Grace before a meal and am happy to adjust lunch timings if guests are attending church.

But I'm fecked if I'd put up with elongated praying at the table. The only necessary response is shut up and eat before it gets cold. I'm sorry OP but this really does sound like you and DH/his family are In different places here and I don't think you should be bullied into something you are uncomfortable with.

I can’t believe that posters are saying you are unreasonable @Fretfulmum . This type of behaviour from guests would drive me completely nuts. Tell them to go to fuck with their godbothering nonsense.

Christmas is not a religious holiday. It's a pagan holiday that Christians stole and is now largely secular.

You’re wrong. Pagan doesn’t mean non-religious @LittleRedSnidyHood “Pagan” is a collective noun referring to a number of religions, most of them pre-Christian. Midwinter celebrations have always had some sort of religious function - early Christians layered their celebrations onto existing religious practices as a way of gaining popularity but probably also as a way of not being noticed at a time when Christians were persecuted.

These were also religious festivals, just ones that prayed to older gods.

Absolutely @Tacotortoise The ignorance of religious history on this thread is legion!

Well yes, I meant that it was not a Christian religious holiday. Obviously I know paganism is a religion but Christmas in it's current form is not religious and the first sentence refers to this and not past religions.
I've actually got quite a bit of religious knowledge. That's how I know Christianity is not something I want brought into my house. Homophobic, racist, sexist bollocks.

This.

Isn't there something in the bible about not praying ostentatiously??? I'd remind them of that and point the way to the garage.

I think it's wrong of your OH to expect you to 'join in'. I'm assuming you've already had a conversation about your children and how they will he brought up so no it isn't a whole family thing!
I'm unsure exactly what this partaking of prayers involved. If it was a quick bow your head and mutter 'grace' then I think it's quite intolerant to leave the room. If it's something that involves everyone giving thanks and 'praising the Lord' yes, that would grate.
It sounds to me like it's your OH not your guests that have the problem. Could it be that he's torn and has ambivalence about his faith which is the real issue?

I'm unsure exactly what this partaking of prayers involved. If it was a quick bow your head and mutter 'grace' then I think it's quite intolerant to leave the room. If it's something that involves everyone giving thanks and 'praising the Lord' yes, that would grate.
Radical thought, how about reading the OP’s posts?

Ahh but then we would simply get into another debate between those who believe in Santa and celebrate their beliefs with stockings by the fire with mince pies and carrots and those that don't believe.

OP had no problem with them engaging in worship.

The problem here is the DH who expected OP to pretend she’s religious around his parents.

I just spent a chunk of time in a really interesting country where animist beliefs coexist with a lot of other religious traditions. Pretty much everyone we met observed a hodge-podge of traditions, vaguely religious and superstitious rituals, and a lot of interesting traditions like casting bones to tell the future.

No one said, "well actually you can only cast bones if you're animist, walk that way around the mosque if you're Muslim and touch that if you're Christian.". Everyone just respected everyone else doing as little or as much as they liked while having commonly observed cultural 'manners'. My favourite of which was that they believed if you didn't know the superstition it wouldn't affect you.

Just like the UK. People pick up what they want and drop what they don't. The trick is not to demand everyone participates in the exact way you want. The UK has Christmas a a mostly cultural break in the winter, just when we need one. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. The ILs can pray, OP can quietly exit before they do. It's not rude, or bad, or disrespectful. She does her, they do them.

Yes, I know, I’ve pointed that out about 10 times on the thread already - but in the above I was responding to LittleRedSnidyHood’s particular comments.

@NumberTheory

In short, and depending on how the conversation went, I don’t think it’s necessarily rude that DH’s family wanted to say a prayer- I see the forced participation as the issue (or, at least, a much bigger issue).

LRSH disagrees and think that their wanting to pray at the table is rude in and of itself.

Personally, if I had invited some devout Christians to my home on Christmas, where my Christian DH also resides, I would half expect them to want to say a prayer and would not be affronted by it (in principle- in practice it may depend on the words). I wouldn’t be joining in, though.

@SpecialCharacters Sorry.

No problem, it’s hard to track the conversation, not least because of the number of posters who are replying without actually reading/digesting what the OP has said.

I have at various points in life been present for people praying in different faiths to mine ( Jewish and Muslim vs Christian). I do not speak the words but I have no problem being present quietly while others are praying. I don’t think it would make a difference whether it was in my home or somewhere else. I would even do it for a fairly extended length of time provided that it was on a one-off or occasional (as in, yearly or less) basis. So I am sorry but guess I do feel YABU. This just seems like being respectful of family members’ beliefs and not a particularly large sacrifice.

At first, I did think you were being rude and intolerant, but the additional information about them having told you that they would like to be a Christian rather changes things. It does seem as though they're trying to convert you, not just engaging in their own religious practices. I don't blame you for being fed up with it.

If you aren’t a believer, how is it disrespectful to give them the space to pray without you there?

I’m actually going to walk back a little from saying that perhaps DH’s family didn’t do much wrong themselves - now noting the update that they gave DH a hard time for the OP’s non-participation.

That said, while they may be the root of the problem, her DH should shut that down, not enforce it.

I think leaving can feel to the people being left like “I can’t stand to be around this crap and so I must leave.” Whereas staying put seems to convey more tolerance and acceptance. I’m sure it’s not meant in this way but I do think it can inadvertently cause this impression.

How dare those Christians want to pray on the most important date in their calender. 🥺 All religions have their practices that should be respected.