To be really pissed off with nursery about this?

[Undertheladder]

I know I’ll probably be flamed for this but have been trying to potty train ds, obviously not very well. But FIVE piss wet through pants? He does pee on the potty when told, so AIBU to wonder wtf is going on?

They probably do, but they can't stand over every child individually and make sure they go.

Maybe he’s not ready just yet?

Boys are SOOO lazy. They suss really early that some female is going to clean up their crap. My DS did really well with toilet training, but got lazy age 4-5, and though he never wet himself, he started to come home from school/nursery every day with shit-streaked underpants. So I would calmly but firmly lead him to the sink with offending undergarments and instruct him how to hold said undies under the tap and having applied soap, to scrub vigorously. When he demurred I would stand behind him, gently but firmly holding each of his hands in mine, and scrub. It took less than a week till he got the message - when you need, GO.

@Undertheladder Ive read through your replies but not the other posts. I couldn’t seem to see so sorry if I have missed it! Have you spoken to the nursery about what their method is? How often they take him? Do they have set times throughout the day? 1 adult to 8 children of that age is a lot tougher than you think and although not teachers they will have work to carry out and from my limited experience of working in a nursery it’s not always their own group they are with as the children can pick and choose activities at certain times of the day. I work in ASN and classes are 1 adult to 2 children. Even at that ratio we have had some bad days with potty training! There is a lot to do in a day, snacks, personal care, activities, lunches and sometimes you stop and think omg I should have taken him at … time. Too late wet through.

I understand your frustration but he doesn’t sound ready yet to me and if I was his worker I would be requesting nappies but still taking him to sit several times a day, celebrating successes, building up to trying again.

Many parents think they will end up at school in nappies and panic, it’s rarely the case. I’ve taught P1 in mainstream 7 times and never had a child in nappies. I’ve had a few who couldn’t wipe though and some with dummies but never nappies.

As calm and measured as you try to be he will be able to sense your worry on this so stop being so hard on yourself it will all come together.

My advice is over the Christmas holidays continue and keep a record. Ask to speak to the nursery on return and fill them in on how it is going and find out what their procedures are. If you encourage every 30mins they may do so every hour, resulting in accidents.

This is true and also if you lift them or ask them apparently it can slow actually being trained. I never used to ask mine. Not through design and it's something I actually read years after 4 of them so just luck or laziness on my part 😭

That’s awful. Boys are not all lazy at all. The shit stains are usually because their attempts are ineffective not laziness.

I think now you've started it, I'd try and persevere especially if he's starting school next year.

Accidents will happen, lots at first. We did potty training with our son, just after Christmas at nearly 3 years old . We had to isolate (covid times) so used it as an opportunity to train him. The first 3 days were horrendous, I went through about 20 underpants , I kept trousers off. We had a carpet and I lay something down to protect. By day 4 we had a break through and he started to use the potty

The odd accidents still happened at nursery right up until the end , this happened when he was tired or really preoccupied with a task . He knew he needed a wee but left it to late and had little accidents. I didn't get cross with him or the nursery though.

He's 4.5 now and hasn't had any accidents since starting school though. He's not dry at night yet and still wears pants overnight but I believe that's hormonal and can't be trained

I found with mine that potty training wasn’t a linear process. I imagined it would be a few days and then done but it was much more of a process, a bit like learning to walk. They understood the concept pretty quickly but it took months to perfect it, with weird off days (especially in exciting places like nursery) where they’d have constant accidents - especially if tired or unwell.

I think there's a huge difference between nursery and home. There's so much else going on that it'll be harder for your little one to recognise urges, he might not want to sit on the potty and wait to pee or poo when he's being taken away from fun activities and knows the others are still playing so he might rush off it without going. Then need to go straight after. You could ask the nursery staff if they have a rough schedule of when they ask him to go potty or ask what they've found works well for others in the setting? I know you don't want to wait until your child is six.. but you can't force it either. You're going to have to patiently work through it with him and the nursery and try to work together with them and trust they are doing what they can. Some kids are successfully trained a little later than others, every child is different.

I'll maybe give you that it's not "lazy" if you want to argue semantics, more a case of, they are too into what they are doing in the moment to take time out for a toilet break. So what exactly do you think is awful...? Teaching someone to clean up after themselves?

I have had hundreds and hundreds of toddlers and preschoolers in my care over the years. IME there is a sweetspot between two and three where 99% of children will be more than ready and willing to training with relative ease. Those who made it through to our preschool room untrained almost always had parents who claimed they were not yet ready, but wouldn't put the time in to do it properly, or would switch to pull ups. You then get three year olds who are developmentally able to toilet properly, but become lazy and unbothered by it.

Parents really need to book a week of work and just go for it. If after a couple of days with nothing on their bottom half, they're still just going indiscriminately, they're not ready, but may be a month later.

As for being annoyed with the staff, we have 30 preschoolers to care for along with all the activities, cleaning, meal prep, planning, observations, paperwork etc etc etc. we do our best to take them to the toilet regularly if they need that support, but it isn't always possible, so accidents will happen. You are expecting too much of them, they will already be swamped at this time of year!

My advice is to try to get him reliably dry over the Christmas break and ease up on his teachers, they will be doing their best.

Have you told him that he needs to tell you when he needs a wee. We really drilled in "if you need a wee you need to tell me and I'll get your potty."
And everytime we dropped him off at nursery "don't forget to tell the teachers when you need a wee, you don't want to wet your trousers do you" I even explained to him that even when he's having fun playing his he needs a wee he needs to go right away or he'll have an accident.

Pee happens.

Try watching Elmo goes potty ....

Take him every 15 minutes it is more toilet timing than training. It will come. Not many 10 year olds in pampers.

I think there is a compromise to be had for nursery. He could be in pull-up style nappies or old school training underwear. Just something that will help catch accidents so the nursery workers don’t have quite as much mess to deal with, but he still has the ability to use the potty.

at home, just regular clothing. Really though, if you need to get things done quickly, have him go naked over Christmas break.

In all honesty I think some kids do just have regular accidents for a while and it takes time to click. At nursery, he’ll have been hyped up for Christmas and just finding things that are more exciting than going to the loo.

My eldest was hard to train at 3. She didn’t really care if she had an accident. I think it took a good 6 months from starting to train to her taking herself off independently. My youngest on the other hand self trained at just turned 2 and was so easy. She was honestly a delight compared to the first- some children just find it much easier than others. He will get there with consistency and patience.

Sounds like he isn’t ready. But if you think he is then you have two weeks over Christmas to get it sorted. It’s not really the nursery’s job.

We had this too, I honestly think it's better to start earlier as they will take longer to master it but don't have the embarrassment and psychological hang ups. That is also the official advice - 18 months to 26 months is meant to be the optimal time to start.

A lot of accidents and a happy child is far less stressful than withholding and all the related issues.

Also there is absolutely nothing wrong with going back in nappies for a few days if everyone needs a break, they don't forget what they have learned. It's really easy to do that if they are younger as they don't care and just accept it.

You’re 100% right to persevere - you’ve got so far and your son will nail it eventually. The accidents will decrease and he will eventually ask to go - it’s a process. There is nothing to gain going back to nappies, you know this so I don’t know why people are suggesting it. Maybe ask nursery if they can “buddy” him up so he goes whenever a friend goes? Normally nurseries have a before snack, lunch, snack schedule so they combine toilet and has wash before food. Maybe ask if they do similar?
Today might just be that he’s knackered before Xmas and ready for a break - so much illness and tiredness. Or maybe some of the nursery workers were off sick so they weren’t as responsive as usual - could be so many factors.

Hi OP, I haven’t read the whole thread, but thought I would post as I have just been through the same.

My DD is 3 and has just started nursery 2 afternoons a week. At home she was more or less accident free.

The first week at nursery she had no accidents. After that she was coming home in her spare clothes every time, and she is only there for up to 4.5 hrs.

About a month in, she had 2 accidents in one afternoon and I, like you, felt that this was a concern because I had asked them to prompt her, given that it was a new environment, and she may be more easily distracted while playing.

It came to light that her key worker finishes at 3.30 every day and that the accidents were always happening after this time. (She should have been assigned someone else given that she is only there afternoons but never mind.)

I asked them to make sure DD was given a verbal handover to another member of staff so that she knew who to go to and they knew to continue prompting her. She hasn’t had another accident at nursery since.

Every child at nursery should have a key worker, so speak your DS’s and ask them personally to prompt your DS at regular intervals. It is not an unreasonable request. Good luck!

No - it’s awful to accuse small children of being “lazy” I know my son (4.5) tries to wipe his bottom and is concerned if he hasn’t done a good job. It’s not that he’s distracted just that he hasn’t quite mastered it yet.

He's clearly not ready

CM here. Sounds like you child is in early stage of potty training, doesn't yet understand when they need to go but happy to sit & perform if told. I think you need to persevere but perhaps take a step back - take a look at the ERIC website which has really good information for successful Toilet training. This stage can last for a good while until it clicks with child, keep using the potty/toilet regularly but probably pop back into nappies at present ( NOT pull ups - ERIC will explain that using pull ups is confusing for children & actually prolongs the process - major rwason why many childcare discourage use of pull ups & prefer nappies). When your child is able to tell/show you they need the potty is the best time to change over to pants & generally very quick to then become fully TT.

https://eric.org.uk/potty-training/

Nursery manager and mum of four here.
If a child was having more than one or two
accidents a day with us we would feel that the child wasn't ready and would encourage the parents to put them back in nappies even for a short time... it is amazing how quick they get it when they are completely ready. ( emotionally and physically)
Children behave very differently at nursery and even if staff have been taking the children to toilet accidents can still happen frequently.
Having accidents can be uncomfortable and embarrassing for children especially in front of their peers.
Also it is becoming more common for children to begin toilet training later.
We haven't had any neurotypical children start school in nappies to date but currently have quite a lot of 3 year olds still in nappies so I wouldn't worry yet.
My oldest son had lots of accidents so I put him back in nappies and tried again a fortnight later and he cracked it.
Take the pressure of yourself and him.