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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not letting ex take baby on Xmas Day?

490 replies

confusedex2 · 18/12/2023 17:04

I have a DC with my ex who is 10 months old.

Ex has never had DC alone and sees them sporadically (once went almost 2 months without a visit) although has been getting better recently.

Exes parents have also only seen DC a few times. I've offered and invited them to things, offered to meet, but they've not taken me up on offers.

Ex wants to take DC to his parents for half the day on Xmas and thinks it's his and his parents right to have baby there on Xmas Day.

I've offered ex and his parents to come here and visit DC, but he thinks I'm being unreasonable to not let him take baby. His parents live 2 hours away and I'm also still breastfeeding.

Ex isn't on the BC. He does pay maintenance now though (after I went to CMS).

AIBU? Thanks

OP posts:
TheOccupier · 20/12/2023 21:19

YANBU and should tell them all to fuck off. Thank god he's not on the BC! Once you're back working and earning don't even take his money any more, just block him everywhere. Your DD doesn't need arseholes like him and his parents in her life.

Iamnotalemming · 20/12/2023 21:19

OP YANBU at all. Your ex and his family sound batshit. Please enjoy Christmas with your little one and don't apologise to those weirdos. 💐

wronginalltherightways · 20/12/2023 21:19

Codlingmoths · 20/12/2023 20:12

‘I won’t be travelling on Christmas Day nor leaving my baby. I wont be apologising to anyone for the stress of knowing I didn’t abort my beautiful perfect baby or that you weren’t at the birth of the baby you didn’t want. I won’t be offering any more time or visits to grandparents who keep going on about how my having our baby has caused them stress, I’m sure such stress will be much easier to manage if they don’t see baby. I will as always be focused on my baby, which you keep reminding me I chose to do. Merry Christmas.’

cannot like this message enough

Calliopespa · 20/12/2023 21:23

Maria1982 · 20/12/2023 21:08

So…
They didn’t want you to have the baby.
Now they want to see the baby on Christmas Day
they want you to apologise to them??
oh my god, no. Just no. They should be apologising to you.

and yes, if they wanted a relationship with their grandchild, they should be putting in the effort and coming to your place to see him.

ohmygod. Please don’t feel guilty. Frankly him and his parents sounds strangely similar (selfish and entitled !).

And don’t feel you have to apologise for still breastfeeding! It’s perfectly normal, natural, whatever, and no one’s business but yours

oh well that slightly better. The apology bit is just petty however.

Calliopespa · 20/12/2023 21:25

Calliopespa · 20/12/2023 21:23

oh well that slightly better. The apology bit is just petty however.

Oops sorry have to type lying down. Meant to append that to OP update about her being invited provided she apologies. Not a response to you Maria! Sorry!

Midnightgrey · 20/12/2023 21:34

You've landed your baby with an awful father who seems to have an equally awful family and who seem to have the oddest views -traditional but wanted you to have an abortion, trying to wriggle out of paying maintenance, wanted you to apologise for their son impregnating you and so on, and banging on about stress. What stress given he wasn't there during the pregnancy or birth, he denied paternity and tried to wriggle out of paying and they haven't even taken up the previous opportunities to see the child. If they wanted to build a relationship with your child, they would have taken up opportunities to visit, and treated you with respect as the mother of their grandchild.

You shouldn't double down on this by letting him take the baby on Christmas Day to spend the day with strangers. Besides which, I don't see how a breastfed baby is going to have a happy Christmas hungry and surrounded by strangers. I would certainly not be joining him and his batshit crazy family for Christmas. I think it is a mercy that he is not on the birth certificate.

parsely · 20/12/2023 21:39

Tell him if he takes 50% of the burden of caring for his child and 50% of the financial responsibility for his needs, you'll consider letting him have access for 50% of Christmas day next year.

Tell him a baby's not just for Christmas. It's for life.

confusedex2 · 20/12/2023 21:47

I think you're all right and they are batsh*t.

I think I've been gaslit so much that I've almost started to believe it could be me that's the issue.

The pregnancy was also so difficult I feel it's changed me and I also have PND which this stress doesn't help.

He's spoke about wanting 50/50 since I applied for maintenance but I don't think he'd move close enough to make it work. He'd do me a favour if he stepped up though and became a responsible father as nursery will be costing me a bomb.

OP posts:
whynotwhatknot · 20/12/2023 21:53

he really does sound like my dsis ex-not the same situation but involved a child and theyre neve wrong its always her and shes the devil

let him take it to court he cant cherry pick what days he can see dc and rock up when he likes the court wont have that

Booksdebbieo · 20/12/2023 21:54

It is babies first Christmas so I can understand his father wanting to spend time with him. I can also see how difficult it might be for ex and paternal grandparents to come to yours. They are not strangers but family even if they haven't had much to do with DC. It will be important for DC to have a relationship with his father and family.
I can also understand if you are breastfeeding it would be very difficult for DC to spend time at theirs. Could you let them spend time alone at yours? Maybe with you being in a different room for an hour or so. That way you can be on hand if DC starts to get upset and that might lessen both you and DC worries then?

Ottersmith · 20/12/2023 22:03

Codlingmoths · 20/12/2023 20:12

‘I won’t be travelling on Christmas Day nor leaving my baby. I wont be apologising to anyone for the stress of knowing I didn’t abort my beautiful perfect baby or that you weren’t at the birth of the baby you didn’t want. I won’t be offering any more time or visits to grandparents who keep going on about how my having our baby has caused them stress, I’m sure such stress will be much easier to manage if they don’t see baby. I will as always be focused on my baby, which you keep reminding me I chose to do. Merry Christmas.’

Yes this is great.

Lemonfoxtrot · 20/12/2023 22:04

OP- you need to remind yourself of this thread anytime you have a wobble and try to accommodate them.

by all means let him be part of your baby’s life, but don’t hold your breath.

I suspect the 50% wheeze ( from virtually zero) is part of a cunning plan to avoid paying maintenance. His plan is probably to farm your daughter out to his Mother or another family member.

If he comes asking for 50% remind him it comes with 50% of childcare bills. Also make sure it’s only registered childcare providers ( no overnights with random relatives).

Do not put him on the birth certificate. ( does he have parental responsibility? I wouldn’t think so. Don’t give it to him.)

Insist on suitable accommodation if he asks for overnights.

I strongly believe that kids should be encouraged to have a relationship with both parents, but I am very suspicious of your ex’s motives here. This seems less about your daughter and more about him. Your DC risks being lifted and dropped when it suits him to play happy families- his contact needs to be consistent.

I actually think with a character like this ( and the cheating, the crazy family all add to it) you need try and limit contact with your DC. I think some parents are better having no contact with their kids. He sounds like one of them.

AuntMarch · 20/12/2023 22:11

So they think because they didn't want you to have your baby they don't have to step up, but they do get to take the special moments from you? Fuck that!

I was separated before I gave birth. My ex wasn't in the room, and nor did he make a fuss about that. He was in the hospital though, so he came in to meet him as soon as I was covered up. Ten months is when he did start having overnights, but he'd been to see our son every single weekend except one (away for work) and had built up time away from me from a 20 minute walk the first time to a full 12 hour day at his.

Baby was only six months at first christmas, but he didn't even ask to take him - I went with baby Xmas eve to see ex's family and then ex came to mine a few hours Xmas day. He's got his 24th-26th this year.
Sorry if that sounds like I'm criticising, I'm not meaning to, I am just trying to say it can work well but only if dad is putting baby's needs first!!

MrsAmaretto · 20/12/2023 22:14

He’s a prick and so are they. Thank god your baby is 10months and clueless about the lot of them. I’d not be wanting any of them in my child’s life as god knows what rubbish they’ll spout when baby is a child.

Be strong, keep your boundaries for the physical, mental and emotional well-being of you and your child and hopefully they’ll fuck off out of both your lives soon. No one needs such toxic, mean, nasty and selfish people in their lives.

GreatGateauxsby · 20/12/2023 22:43

I would be keeping them as far away as possible and giving access on my terms only.

Some advice:
if he wants 50/50 let him go to court for access.

otherwise he will say he wants 50/50, he’ll drop support payments, you’ll arrange childcare accordingly then he will dick you about changing days, full of excuses as to why x y and z “doesn’t work for him” and drop you in it as you won’t have proper childcare and you’ll have to chose between your child’s welfare or jeopardising your job.
the alternative scenario is he takes 50/50 and by some miracle sticks to it and but he does this by dumping your child with his bonkers mother who provides the “childcare” and spends her days spouting poisonous bile about you to your child.

Baba197 · 21/12/2023 00:13

YANBU! Absolutely do not let him take your baby, he is essentially a stranger to your dc and it’s much too far away. Tell them to p@@s off!

determinedtomakethiswork · 21/12/2023 00:34

I'm so sorry you're going through that. PND is awful. I used antidepressants and found them very very useful when I had it.

Your ex only wants 50-50 because he doesn't want to pay child support. He has done absolutely nothing to suggest he wants to look after the child. To be honest I would really battle against him having much custody anyway. I know how expensive it is for you. Keep posting on here and people in the same position will be able to give you really good advice.

Flowers
Chardonnayneeded · 21/12/2023 00:42

Good god I won’t let my 12 year old twins or my 7 year old spend time alone with their paternal grandparents as they barely know them, twice yearly visits if lucky so definately not a very young baby!! YANBU as your doing the best for your child

contrary13 · 21/12/2023 01:48

If my "baby" wasn't a gigantic 19 year old right now, @confusedex2 , I would think that you're me...

Take it from someone who has been there and made the mistake of facilitating a relationship between my DS and his paternal family for 15 years... give an inch and they'll use it as a precedent. The stress of it, the watching of your child winding up confused and hurt (which only stresses you out more) and the inevitable smug condescension towards you by the parents of the "father" of your child just isn't worth it. My ex and I were almost 30 when our son was born and we were together at the time, and had been for almost 8 years. DS was also planned by us both, and took almost 5 years to conceive (second child infertility, I have a daughter from a prior relationship). He refused to tell his parents that I was pregnant, despite the fact that he was still living with them only 3 miles from where DD and I lived. At 6 months pregnant, his mother arrived to harangue me about how they wanted me to have an abortion ("but of course, it's your choice, 13") and how absolutely stressed out my ex was about the whole situation. What he hadn't told them was that I suffered a partial miscarriage of DS' twin at 9 weeks - which he was told about, afterwards, ,when he finally deigned to answer my call (I suspect he was fucking around on me even then, in hindsight), and that I was more than prepared to raise DS without him, because I knew that I could do it (having been a single parent to DD from the very start). When DS was born, I refused to have ex in the room - so his mother camped out in the waiting room and tried to force her way in to take photographs of DS when he was minutes old (she was told to leave the hospital by the excellent and ferocious midwives) - although I did allow my ex in to meet DS for a while. For the first 12 months, I refused to let them spend time alone with DS - and he wasn't even breastfed. I was guilt-tripped, but there was just a niggle of suspicion there that made me go "nope". They tried to hijack every single special event for themselves - DS' birthdays, Christmases, Easter... it became like a game in the end, because I had to find humour somewhere. But when they did spend time with DS, they didn't look after him - actually, they gave him a life-changing TBI when he was 6, which resulted in the hospital reporting them to the police and SS for child neglect. Ex and I split when DS was 4, and after that, I had little to no say as to who DS spent time with during the 18 hours a month access (ex's choice - in 19 years he has never put DS to bed, read him a story, soothed him when he had nightmares... the 18 hours were 9 hours every other Saturday - and he was dumped on either ex's mother, or his new wife). When I needed to register DS' birth at 3 days old because he needed to see a GP, who wouldn't see him until he was registered... ex refused to pick up any of my calls, so that he could be on our son's birth certificate - so consequently, he isn't, His father threatened to take me to court to rectify this, I said "great; not a problem with that..." - he said he'd look into it (because why should I do the legwork?) and I'm still waiting, DS was 2 at this point. I received £100 a month in maintenance (and ex has a well paid job, plus side hustles), all childcare expenses were on my shoulders, and I was primary carer 100% of the time. I literally stopped trying to talk my son into seeing them when he was 15 - he knew that he wasn't there because they wanted to spend time with him, he was there to make them look good and/or babysit his younger half-siblings and cousins as he's the oldest (well... the oldest that ex's parents know about).

DS is an adult now and has little to no relationship with any of them. They guilt trip him (or try to, he's more immune to it now he's older and his boundaries are strong!) him about the fact that he and his father aren't close ("well, Mum, we would be if he'd actually put some effort in when I was a kid," was his statement the other week when the festive season's guilting began via text...). They moan when he leaves their texts on read... for weeks. And he's seen them once in 7 months, He just has no interest because of the fact that they have done nothing but make him feel like he's some sort of charity case because I was already a single mother when he came along... I apparently have a golden cunt that entrapped my partner of almost 8 years into talking me into having his baby (I wasn't keen at the start...). But as his Mum, I carry, and always will do, that residual guilt for ignoring my gut instincts when it came to my ex's family. I have watched my son be hurt (emotionally and physically) repeatedly by them, been spoken to like I'm a piece of dirt beneath their shoes because their son was too much of a coward to tell them that I was pregnant, until they couldn't browbeat me into a termination, and I have literally had to advocate/stop contact for my son's mental welfare so many times that I stopped counting (which of course makes me even more of the devil incarnate...), Everything has to be on their terms - and when my son turned 16 and wanted to spend Saturdays with his mates... they threw their toys out of the pram about it. Didn't like it when I told them that their son and I had been fucking like bunnies at the age of 16, and could they please respect my son's need to be a teenager (not my finest moment but by that stage... well.)

Don't let them set the precedent for anything in your DC's life, OP. Seriously. Trust me, that way madness lies. They're not interested in your baby - just in hurting you. Which is despicable, and says more about them than it ever will you or your DC. Flowers

MadinMarch · 21/12/2023 02:04

It is babies first Christmas so I can understand his father wanting to spend time with him. I can also see how difficult it might be for ex and paternal grandparents to come to yours. They are not strangers but family even if they haven't had much to do with DC. It will be important for DC to have a relationship with his father and family.
I can also understand if you are breastfeeding it would be very difficult for DC to spend time at theirs. Could you let them spend time alone at yours? Maybe with you being in a different room for an hour or so. That way you can be on hand if DC starts to get upset and that might lessen both you and DC worries then?

@Booksdebbieo

Have you actually read the thread?
The grandparents don't want to travel, they didn't want the baby to be born and they don't want to see the op unless she apologises for having the baby. The father sees the baby erratically and only when it suits him. Why would op should bend over backwards to accommodate them at Christmas, and even sit in another room???
Op needs to be setting very firm boundaries with father and his family, and establishing that she's in charge of deciding what happens when, and she'll only do things that are directly in baby's best interests. She certainly shouldn't be pandering to them by sitting in another room. Her and the baby come as a package and the family need to get used to this now, otherwise she'll set herself up for life being mistreated by them all. They need to treat her with basic respect.

OP- I was in a fairly similar situation to you 25 years ago. Please stand your ground with them, and don't let them occupy too much space in your head- I fully understand how all consuming and worrying it all can feel. It may not feel like it at the moment, but you hold all the cards in your hand, and you don't need to pander to any of their demands that you don't feel comfortable with. Remember, 'you chose to do it alone' and that means you're in charge of everything that happens and when it happens. Tell him this clearly every time he tries to use it against you- tell him til he's sick of being reminded of it!
Just focus on working out a reasonable structure and realistic contact plan for the next six months that you think will work for baby and you. At this stage it's going to probably be an hour or two at a time and staying local, til he can build up trust with you and so it meets baby's needs. If he doesn't like it, tell him you're happy for him to take you to court for contact issues to be decided. He won't do it probably- a solicitor will tell him it'll cost a fortune - I was advised about £25K 25 years ago! He could represent himself, but it doesn't sound as though he'd be very good at it.
Write your plan down and share it with him, in terms of what you are prepared to give him- remember, you're in control and he's not in a position to make demands- Then you can see whether he keeps to the plan or not.Don't be afraid to say it's not working for you, if you need to tweak it. Re-assess the plan in three months time and see if it's effective, and whether it still meets baby's needs. If he's not visiting frequently, then cut the visits down. You don't need to have any contact with the wider family- let them see baby when father has him for an hour or two on his contact days. This will also stop him accusing you (unjustly)of keeping the baby away from his parents.
As baby grows, you'll probably need to adjust the contact plans so they're age appropriate.
It's not an easy place to be in for you, but if you set your boundaries fairly and confidently now, then it will get easier to manage, and should make him treat you with more respect. I trust he's making maintenance payments- if not, put in a claim to CMS

I'd also advise you to get out and meet some other single parents as a support network (sometimes there are local groups on Facebook etc) also, keep posting here as you'll mainly get good advice and support

Have a lovely first Christmas with your little one.

hangingonfordearlife1 · 21/12/2023 03:11

absolutely not! he has no rights as not a legal guardian. he can bugger off as can his parents. nothing to feel guilty about, baby needs you.

Lucy5798 · 21/12/2023 03:23

OP, as the baby’s main and only caretaker, you are 100% responsible for his wellbeing. A huge part of that is listening to and believing your gut when you know something is off. You know this guy does not have the skills to care for an infant. You know his parents have a screw loose. Yet for some reason you are looking for reasons to override your gut.

There’s a decent book called The Gift of Fear that basically argues that women are socialized so that, if we are faced with the choice between being nice but unsafe, OR offending someone so that we feel safe, we often pick making ourselves unsafe for the sake of not offending. And people who prey on other people are GREAT at knowing how to put you in that situation. This guy may just be a douche, I don’t know, but his parents sound like truly bad people. Are you going to entrust your baby to them …. so they like you? Or so your baby has… “family”? (I would not touch these people as “family” with a 50-foot pole.) Or are you going to trust that part of you that knows that what they are proposing is so absurdly out of left field, unkind to baby, and unnecessary that you can say “no” without a second thought? That’s where you’re going to need to get to as a parent.

Btw, people who are desperate for access to your kids but don’t want YOU anywhere in the picture are classic bad news. This is how abuse happens.

Lucy5798 · 21/12/2023 03:41

ALL OF THIS. Trust that “niggle of suspicion,” OP. And when you feel it, say “nope” every time. Nobody gets a “yes” with your kid unless you have no doubt whatsoever that they are 100% safe and trustworthy. You will not regret holding that line.

Netty89 · 21/12/2023 04:08

If he is not on the birth certificate he has no rights at all. Tell him to take you to court, and just cut contact altogether until he does. You don't need the stress and your baby doesn't need to be messed around either. From the sound of it I doubt he will actually bother to try for a proper custody agreement, and if he does then at least it will all be sorted properly.

Nanaof1 · 21/12/2023 06:50

Codlingmoths · 20/12/2023 20:12

‘I won’t be travelling on Christmas Day nor leaving my baby. I wont be apologising to anyone for the stress of knowing I didn’t abort my beautiful perfect baby or that you weren’t at the birth of the baby you didn’t want. I won’t be offering any more time or visits to grandparents who keep going on about how my having our baby has caused them stress, I’m sure such stress will be much easier to manage if they don’t see baby. I will as always be focused on my baby, which you keep reminding me I chose to do. Merry Christmas.’

WOW! Perfectly put! OP--the above is all you need.

Don't let his family gaslight you. Know the signs of it and learn how to ignore it, deflect it, stand strong against it.

I hope you have a truly wonderful first Christmas with your baby!