Page 10 | He asked if he could video me?

koolio · 2023-12-17T13:20:17+00:00

Been seeing a man for the past couple of months, we are exclusive as in not seeing or sleeping with other people. Last night he came over and we had a few drinks, I drank a bit more than I should so admit I was a bit drunk. Anyways, I was giving him oral and he said 'can I video you?' Instead of just saying 'no' I hit the roof. I pushed him away and said he had no respect for me to suggest that and that I would like him to leave my house. He never left and we went to bed and woke up with headaches this morning. I've apologised for my complete overreaction (was it though?) and he has reassured me it's fine and he shouldn't have asked but he's left and I just feel dread that I've ruined everything. I really like this guy and can see it going somewhere. So two questions - AIBU to react the way I did? And if so, do you think I've ruined it?

Mrsttcno1 · 17/12/2023 17:35

muddymudwater · 17/12/2023 17:26

The only person taking the risks is the woman. Lets be honest about this.

There is a feminist analysis here and its that the man is asking the woman to take the risk of trusting him. Its not the other way around.

People saying ' oh all he did is ask and she can just say no' don't seem to be really understanding what he asked. This isn't like just asking for a sexual act, which is a normal part of a sexual relationship that people can say yes or no to depending on their preferences. He is asking her to put herself at his discretion for the rest of his life, as to how he uses that sexual image of her. I don't agree that any man should ask that of any woman.

I'm also suspicious that it was not a coincidence that he asked this of her when she was drunk and already in the sex act. I think he planned that both of these things would make her less likely to refuse.

Show quote history

You need to be very careful using words like “normal”. We all have very different sex lives, something that may be “normal” in yours may not be in mine, and that’s absolutely fine, because we don’t all have sex together! It’s personal, intimate, between only your sexual partners. You have what is “normal” for you, I have what is “normal” for me, but they could be worlds apart. When you meet someone new, you work out your “normal” together for your relationship.

Also, OP has said they BOTH had drinks.

JaneAustensHeroine · 17/12/2023 17:38

There is no way I would continue seeing someone who had suggested this when dating.

Thatfeatherthere · 17/12/2023 17:38

I'm stunned at the posts saying it's fine to ask to film someone you hardly know during sex. Christ, some people set a low bar. Once that footage is on someone else's phone, anything at all could happen to it.

Northernsouloldies · 17/12/2023 17:41

Wonder if he would be as keen to be filmed with a dildo in him.

Nanny0gg · 17/12/2023 17:44

retinolalcohol · 17/12/2023 15:30

I have been the one asking to make videos in the past - certainly nothing to do with any sort of lack of respect for my partner.

You weren't wrong to say no OP, but you were a bit dramatic to 'hit the roof'. If he's previously shown no evidence of a lack of respect for you this reaction was disproportionate. Some people just get off on watching things later - doesn't indicate a respect issue on its own.

I'd thoroughly disagree with that.

You can use your imagination/memories.

MayThe4th · 17/12/2023 17:45

Mrsttcno1 · 17/12/2023 17:05

So you’ve never had drunk sex and expressed a sexual desire during ??

Show quote history

No because I’m not a creep.
lets face it, this isn’t a case of making a normal suggestion, this the equivalent of wanting someone to watch. Because once that video is on the person’s phone there is no guarantee that someone else won’t get to see it. Even if the couple are discrete. Phone is stolen, iCloud is hacked, the possibilities are very real. And that’s before we get to those men who do show their mates and upload to pornhub.

Kittylala · 17/12/2023 17:55

Are you going to see him again?

MayThe4th · 17/12/2023 17:55

Mrsttcno1 · 17/12/2023 17:35

You need to be very careful using words like “normal”. We all have very different sex lives, something that may be “normal” in yours may not be in mine, and that’s absolutely fine, because we don’t all have sex together! It’s personal, intimate, between only your sexual partners. You have what is “normal” for you, I have what is “normal” for me, but they could be worlds apart. When you meet someone new, you work out your “normal” together for your relationship.

Also, OP has said they BOTH had drinks.

Show quote history

No. Asking a woman to make a porn style, identifiable video of her just weeks into a relationship is not, and should never be seen as normal.
I could care less what people do in established relationship, but weeks in and during the act is creepy and perverse. And anyone telling the OP she was wrong to react the way she did needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

Original poster

koolio · 17/12/2023 17:55

Hottenan · 17/12/2023 17:06

An ex of mine asked me if I would pretend to be someone he had just met in a club - We had been dating 6 weeks. I made the mistake of giving him the benefit of the doubt but it didn’t get any better.

What happened?

OP posts:

WhereYouLeftIt · 17/12/2023 17:55

koolio · 17/12/2023 14:49

I would not have hit the roof if it hadn't been for alcohol. That's why I think I've ruined it because why couldn't I just say sorry don't feel comfortable with that and leave it at that?

Wait a mo' - YOU would have said sorry? You? Why?

I'm glad you hit the roof! It's absolutely the sort of thing women should hit the roof about. Ask yourself - what would have happened if he had filmed you?

Do you think he'd be the only person EVER to look at it?

Who else would see it?

Would it be passed round his mates?

Posted online?

Would you find out a year after the fact that he'd set up your very own page on PornHub (as happened to another MNetter - www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4958587-he-put-us-on-pornhub?

And all that is without even considering him holding it over your head as revenge porn if/when you split. (Personally, it would be when, and it would be today.)

So, thank fuck you were a bit tiddly and lost the inhibition to be all polite and conciliatory, and instead went against the insidious female socialisation that makes women say yes when they SHOULD say 'Hell, no!'.

And with that in mind, go back and ponder why you didn't follow through with making him leave. [puts on whiny voice] 'Oh, dear, it would be inconvenient for him'. [returns to normal tone] Well, tough shit, buddy!

You were ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to hit the roof.

He put us on Pornhub🙈 | Mumsnet

Fiancé and I have been together 5 years. We have our ups and down but the bedroom department is always 20/10. He went through a phase of videoing our...

http://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4958587-he-put-us-on-pornhub

Kittylala · 17/12/2023 17:57

Are you going to see him again?

WhereYouLeftIt · 17/12/2023 17:58

Sparklfairy · 17/12/2023 13:26

You've made your boundary very clear, rightly so. He won't ask again.

Just be careful, if you do continue to see him, that he doesn't instead surreptitiously film you while you're 'distracted'.

And that is a very good point you should consider very carefully.

Mrsttcno1 · 17/12/2023 18:04

MayThe4th · 17/12/2023 17:45

No because I’m not a creep.
lets face it, this isn’t a case of making a normal suggestion, this the equivalent of wanting someone to watch. Because once that video is on the person’s phone there is no guarantee that someone else won’t get to see it. Even if the couple are discrete. Phone is stolen, iCloud is hacked, the possibilities are very real. And that’s before we get to those men who do show their mates and upload to pornhub.

Show quote history

eh ? How on earth does expressing a sexual desire during sex make someone a creep?!

It’s absolutely not the equivalent of wanting someone to watch- many people make these videos to watch back themselves whether on their own or with that partner!

I agree that phones are not infallible, they can be stolen or hacked etc of course. That risk doesn’t just exist for home made porn videos, it’s an all round risk with phones. People are all entitled to make their own assessments of those risks and decide their stance. Knowing those risks, some people do still choose to video their sex lives, some people choose to send nude pictures to their partners, some people choose to keep photographs of their card details in the photo albums for ease of online purchases etc. You personally don’t want to take the risk which of course is fine, someone else might make a different decision and that’s also fine :)

Of course there are people (not just men) out there who covertly video partners, show their friends and upload to sites etc without consent. There’s people all over the world who will do all kinds of horrible things unfortunately, all we can do is protect ourselves as best we can and out our own boundaries in place which we personally are comfortable with :)

Mrsttcno1 · 17/12/2023 18:05

MayThe4th · 17/12/2023 17:55

No. Asking a woman to make a porn style, identifiable video of her just weeks into a relationship is not, and should never be seen as normal.
I could care less what people do in established relationship, but weeks in and during the act is creepy and perverse. And anyone telling the OP she was wrong to react the way she did needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

Edited

Show quote history

In your relationships or my relationships it doesn’t have to be done, but everyone is different and everyone is allowed to make their own decisions :)

Also, nowhere have I said OP was wrong to react the way she did. EVERYBODY is entitled to say yes or no, always.

TravelInHope · 17/12/2023 18:22

RudsyFarmer · 17/12/2023 14:36

Lovemaking 🤣

Show quote history

Hilarious. You want a detailed description of which particular sex act? Foreplay, screwing, fisting, bondage, felching, caressing, cunnilingus? Take your pick you hilarious soul.

mottytotty · 17/12/2023 18:23

Mrsttcno1 · 17/12/2023 17:26

That’s absolutely not what I’m saying, NOBODY should allow anyone to do anything they are not comfortable with.

There are degrees to getting to know someone, and you only know where you’re at by open and honest communication. “I like “y” is that okay?” “I’d like to try “x” if that’s okay?”. Part of that communication is sometimes saying actually no, that’s not for me. And that’s absolutely fine!

As long as both parties feel comfortable to express their desires and equally feel comfortable to express when something is NOT for them, and they can respect each others decisions, that’s all part of a normal and healthy relationship.

Show quote history

Your repeated attempts to normalise a man asking to film a new, drunk girlfriend performing oral sex on him as ‘expressing a desire’ is disingenuous.

Most sexual desires don’t have potential dire consequences for women. Many people upthread have relayed their stories of men exploiting videos they have made of women but you are still burying your head in the sand or pushing your agenda.

Panaa · 17/12/2023 18:31

Mrsttcno1 · 17/12/2023 17:10

If your argument is that he can’t be trusted because he’s a relative stranger, then how on earth can you argue it’s fine to have sex with him? You either trust someone or you don’t, personally I wouldn’t be having sex with someone I didn’t trust.

And where is your line then? You can have sex with a relative stranger, but not use sex toys with them? You can have sex with them, but not talk dirty? You can have sex with them, but no “kinky” sex? Whenever you have a sexual encounter, as an adult, part of that is discussing what you like/don’t like, want/don’t want, are okay with/are not okay with.

This is a complete non-issue, he expressed a desire, she said “no thanks”, he says “okay, sorry for asking”. End of ? There’s nothing wrong with asking about something you want, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with OP saying no- that’s not for me :)

Edited

Show quote history

Like you, I will only have sex with someone that I feel like I trust. However that doesn't mean that I'm right to trust them. I could be proven wrong at any time.

Women can absolutely feel like they trust a man they're about to sleep with or that they've slept with several times before but they can have been horribly wrong.

It's like you're saying that if you trusted someone enough to decide to sleep with them that you should trust them completely no matter what happens during?

The line will be different for everyone.

And plenty of people discuss what they do and don't like, what they are okay with and are not okay with, but during sex the sex partner doesn't stick to those rules (which in many cases is assault in my eyes).

Basically as women we can wait until we 'trust' them all we want, we can discuss our likes and hard no's all we want, but we're still taking a risk.

Also for the men who are mature about sex and kinks and who care about womens comfort they will know to discuss these things in advance, before sex, not during sex, and certainly not during sex when the woman is drunk.

Simpleblessingsxx · 17/12/2023 18:32

SoySaucePls · 17/12/2023 16:44

When I consider one out of two marriages break up, and second and third marriages are even higher. Partners break up even more frequently.

Ive seen plenty of acrimonious ends. All of these people boasting about how they’ve made videos of themselves and lording it over the sensible ones who’d never dream of putting themselves in such a vulnerable position… what planet are you all on?

The one where everyone lives happily every after?

I come from a large family. I've never seen one divorce in my family tree for at least 4 generations. You can't tar everyone with the same brush because of statistics. Happy marriages with happy families do exist & they are not in the minority.

perto · 17/12/2023 18:33

I'll tell you a story. When I was 18 and suffering from extremely low self esteem and seeking constant validation by men, I met with a guy who had contacted me via Facebook. The first time meeting him I went to his house where we did anal, no discussion, no lube, he just decided he was putting it in my ass. He then recorded it all, at no point did he ask me, he just did it. I honestly had no boundaries and such low self esteem that my whole identity was tied up in pleasing men sexually and doing exactly what they wanted to me, even if I didn't want them to. After the sex, I tried to cuddle this disgusting man (he was 20 at the time) and he pushed me away and said 'no, men don't cuddle slags like you'. It was a real moment of self reflection for me actually, I thought what in the fuck are you doing allowing someone to have such little respect to not only treat you that way, but to have your body and let them take videos of you.

I obviously decided to never see the prick again. However, he messaged me a few days later asking for another session, I said absolutely not. He then threatened to share the videos of me unless I met up with him again. This was 12 years ago. No chance. I said share the videos far and wide, I will never meet up with you again. I never did. I never heard or seen that he shared the videos but he probably definitely at the least showed them to his pals.

I'm sure it's not the same situation with your guy but I don't think the time to ask is during the act itself.

Panaa · 17/12/2023 18:36

Mrsttcno1 · 17/12/2023 17:26

That’s absolutely not what I’m saying, NOBODY should allow anyone to do anything they are not comfortable with.

There are degrees to getting to know someone, and you only know where you’re at by open and honest communication. “I like “y” is that okay?” “I’d like to try “x” if that’s okay?”. Part of that communication is sometimes saying actually no, that’s not for me. And that’s absolutely fine!

As long as both parties feel comfortable to express their desires and equally feel comfortable to express when something is NOT for them, and they can respect each others decisions, that’s all part of a normal and healthy relationship.

Show quote history

Can you accept that mid sex act while the OP is drunk is not how a man should go about honest and open communication?

Can you accept that asking mid sex act while the OP was drunk is not the time and place?

That's not the setting or circumstance in which a woman is likely to feel comfortable and respected.

mottytotty · 17/12/2023 18:39

Simpleblessingsxx · 17/12/2023 18:32

I come from a large family. I've never seen one divorce in my family tree for at least 4 generations. You can't tar everyone with the same brush because of statistics. Happy marriages with happy families do exist & they are not in the minority.

Show quote history

It’s interesting that you see divorced people as ‘tarred’ i.e. dirty. And divorced doesn’t equal unhappy, lots of people stay in disastrous marriages, it doesn’t mean they’re happy.

mottytotty · 17/12/2023 18:41

perto · 17/12/2023 18:33

I'll tell you a story. When I was 18 and suffering from extremely low self esteem and seeking constant validation by men, I met with a guy who had contacted me via Facebook. The first time meeting him I went to his house where we did anal, no discussion, no lube, he just decided he was putting it in my ass. He then recorded it all, at no point did he ask me, he just did it. I honestly had no boundaries and such low self esteem that my whole identity was tied up in pleasing men sexually and doing exactly what they wanted to me, even if I didn't want them to. After the sex, I tried to cuddle this disgusting man (he was 20 at the time) and he pushed me away and said 'no, men don't cuddle slags like you'. It was a real moment of self reflection for me actually, I thought what in the fuck are you doing allowing someone to have such little respect to not only treat you that way, but to have your body and let them take videos of you.

I obviously decided to never see the prick again. However, he messaged me a few days later asking for another session, I said absolutely not. He then threatened to share the videos of me unless I met up with him again. This was 12 years ago. No chance. I said share the videos far and wide, I will never meet up with you again. I never did. I never heard or seen that he shared the videos but he probably definitely at the least showed them to his pals.

I'm sure it's not the same situation with your guy but I don't think the time to ask is during the act itself.

Sorry that happened to you, perto, and well done for not giving into his blackmail. I hope the fucker is dead now and you’re living a good life.

Panaa · 17/12/2023 18:42

Mrsttcno1 · 17/12/2023 17:35

You need to be very careful using words like “normal”. We all have very different sex lives, something that may be “normal” in yours may not be in mine, and that’s absolutely fine, because we don’t all have sex together! It’s personal, intimate, between only your sexual partners. You have what is “normal” for you, I have what is “normal” for me, but they could be worlds apart. When you meet someone new, you work out your “normal” together for your relationship.

Also, OP has said they BOTH had drinks.

Show quote history

But you're using words like normal and healthy here making out he asked and she said no and it's all good.

But that's not the normal and healthy way to discuss things like this at all.

Simpleblessingsxx · 17/12/2023 18:47

mottytotty · 17/12/2023 18:39

It’s interesting that you see divorced people as ‘tarred’ i.e. dirty. And divorced doesn’t equal unhappy, lots of people stay in disastrous marriages, it doesn’t mean they’re happy.

Show quote history

Admittedly wrong expression, I meant you shouldn't equate every marriage with potential divorce. I agree people do stay in unhappy marriages for the wrong reasons. I can't state this is true for all my families generations but according to recent marriages everyone appears happy with their partners in life. 🤷‍♀️😁

RudsyFarmer · 17/12/2023 19:13

TravelInHope · 17/12/2023 18:22

Hilarious. You want a detailed description of which particular sex act? Foreplay, screwing, fisting, bondage, felching, caressing, cunnilingus? Take your pick you hilarious soul.

Show quote history

That hit a nerve 😆