To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

She'd have to rise from the grave to do that. Thanks for reminding me.

On the whole I do agree with what she's saying but my god she sounds annoying.
I have a 2 year old who is constantly telling me how nana and granddad tell her how pretty she is so I do understand why she would want your daughter to understand it's not the most important thing in the world though.
If you told her she wasn't allowed to go to football and had to bake because she's a girl that would be one thing but if the kid wants to bake she should be allowed to bake a cake without her aunt making out she's feministing wrong.

You and I have different ideas of great. It's not her job to make these comments, it's OPs and it would annoy me no end.

I disagree that example 2 is reasonable because it suggests that OP made her daughter stay home and bake simply because she's a girl. I baked with DD at the weekend and if someone had said "you know, you don't have to bake just because you're a girl" I'd be a bit wtf because she asked to bake, and she baked with DH the weekend before. So the assumption that DD associates baking with being female wouldn't be correct. But the comment suggests criticism of the parenting.

The SIL didn't make an incorrect statement. But I can see why OP found it annoying

I am a STEM academic and strong feminist but I have some mixed feelings here. Some of what your SIL says is great, some of it sounds a bit goady and undermining.

Your DD may grow up to be a beautiful, makeup loving LGBTQ+ Grand Prix driver with a passion for baking. Would you and DH be okay with that, OP? Would SIL?

@PaulaPocket Oh grow up! How do you expect random people on the internet to know 'as if by magic' 🪄 that your MIL is dead?! You knew very well what my point was. It was a bloody example

I am your SIL, but to my sisters' teen and adult daughters. I am always telling them to live for their potential and teaching them about feminism.

We are more like friends/sisters than aunt/niece, and they don't call me aunty.

Their mums will always be their mums, but as you say OP, the more people who love them the better.

I wasn't blessed with great relationshios with my siblings but I lucked out with my nieces, they are amazing and I will always be there for them, and my sisters like that.

@Wellhellooooodear 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 You've put it so, so well

I disagree with most people, SIL doesn’t sound great, she sounds like a dick.

Against the grain here, it seems, but I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. Your daughter is still so young. It’s perfectly normal for you to say she will be into boys, majority are straight. There’s no need to infiltrate such a young child with all this extra, regarding gender, stereotypes etc. I’m sure your daughter isn’t even thinking about it, or why she isn’t allowed to play football etc. She seems like she is enjoying the baking activity. I don’t see anything wrong with wearing a nice dress and feeling pretty, either.

I'd laugh them all off except example 3.

Example 3 would have me say 'ignore Aunty X - she's not the Mummy and she doesn't set the rules, now come get dressed'.

And I'd be saying it while staring at Aunty X because that was her just undermining you plain and simple.

Example 4 (and possibly example 1) I'd probably spin it back and - she's 3yrs old, she doesn't need dating advice, let her enjoy her childhood.

The other example wouldn't phase me. I'd just say - ooooh yeah maybe next time you can go with Daddy to the football.

I do see your point and I don't think SIl sounds fabulous. I think you sound pretty fair minded.

It's like if you put a 3yr old girl and 3yr old boy in a room with toys, but you sit there constantly saying to the girl - 'but you can play with the trucks you know' - it's still focusing on her gender. And for all these people saying how marvelous she is - it does make me wonder how saying to a 3yr old boy - you don't have to wear smart trousers you could wear this pretty pink dress instead.......would go down? and would these same people be saying how fabulous it was if he picked up a blusher brush? Or would they just laugh at him doing so without feeling the need to comment at all.

Sounds like SIL is needlessly 'othering' to me based on gender. Don't we all want to get to a place where gender isn't the first and foremost thing on people's mind. If your SIl doesn't want her niece to grow up with rigid gender definitions perhaps she should stop pointing them out at every opportunity and just let the child be a child?

The more into that post I wrote the more annoyed I got with the SIL 😂so maybe it would phase me!

This says it more eloquently than I did ^

I wear make up probably once a week. Every day my daughter chooses her own outfit from a wardrobe that contains her boy cousin's hand me downs, very girly dresses, blues, greens, pinks, trackies, glittery tops etc (subject to her outfit choice being weather appropriate obviously

Then SIL is being a pain in the neck. Girls are allowed to like 'girl' stuff too, and the comment about the baking was just ridiculous.

Boys and girls should be allowed to do and be interested in anything. And if it turns out that a boy who've been offered a range of experiences loves football most, that's okay. And if a girl turns out to like pink and baking after being exposed to everything, that's fine too. Neither had to be challenged on that.

My eldest was super sporty, always chose trousers from being a toddler, and played football competitively from aged 7-21 (and has recently returned to it in her 30s). Her younger sister, despite having that role model, loved pink, glitter, cuddly toys and baking as a child.

You don't judge kids on their choices, you just offer them a range, as I did. Your SIL would really have annoyed me if she picks up on this stuff every single time.

I don’t see anything “harmful” in any of her comments you’ve mentioned. It’s good for your daughter to be exposed to different perspectives. The “you’ll look so pretty” comment is perhaps the wrong message for little girls though. Wearing clean clothes to an event is a perfectly reasonable minimum standard to enforce though.

Only a slight majority of younger generations are fully straight. Likely for younger generations even less. Stats show that only around 50% of gen z are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to the opposite sex (and imagine if some of those people grew up in families or with peers who don’t accept that.)

She sounds irritating as fuck.

I was going to say this, but @EarringsandLipstick saved me the trouble!

I agree. My daughter is five and I discuss these things with her when it comes up naturally in conversation.

Assuming this isn't a reverse (because that's how awesome I think she sounds ha) it sounds like she is a good addition to both your lives. Don't overthink it, she won't be saying it with half the level of sincerity you're taking it as, most will go over your daughter's head, you don't have to agree with everything she says, a fresh perspective is healthy.

SIL sounds beyond tedious.
I'm allergic to know-it-all's of any stripe.
Loudly preaching ideas that are socially acceptable in a 21st century western country as if you're some kind of revolutionary superhero is total cringe.

Your daughter is going to unfortunately have to deal with the drip drip drip drip drip of heteronormative, women are only of value if they are pretty, girls do X and boys do Y her entire life, from friends, family, the Internet, school, college, uni, the workplace, the media (over and over and over again) so I think the fact there's a voice in her life that's being crystal clear about these things is lovely, because one way to look at it is your SIL is presenting a view 1% of the time, you another 19% as her parents, but the other 80% is the relentless bullshit from outside factors that she will deal with her whole life - so you and your SIL's input being 20% doesn't seem over the top, in the long run.

if the kid wants to bake she should be allowed to bake a cake without her aunt making out she's feministing wrong.

That. I was determined that my DDs wouldn't be pushed into sexist norms, but it's just as bad to push them into 'boy' stuff so that you can then congratulate yourself on being a 'good feminist'.

But your kids dolls and cars. Buy them clothes in all colours. Encourage then to kick a ball and bake a cake. Then let then decide for themselves what gives them pleasure.

God SIL sounds like a bore.

She needs to be told to get back in her lane. It reads like she's subtly undermining you and your DD choices (at 3!!), perhaps unintentionally, but she needs to be reminded that her opinions on how your daughter behaves isn't needed and you have it all in hand.

There's nothing wrong with telling her how pretty she is, nothing wrong with her leaving the house clean and presentable and nothing wrong with baking because it's an activity of her choice and interest.