To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

I'm not entirely sure that it is an aunt's job to 'make sure' anything.

If that was a mother-in-law the OP would be told to go low contact!

the constant commentary would grate on me too. But as you say it is not out of malice so I would suck it up. I think the answer is you let kids lead what their interests are without too much pushing. If she didn’t want to wear a dress she would probably say. Left to their own devices some girls really do like pink stuff - it would wrong to not allow that otherwise it’s just being forced to conform but to something else.

I’m going against the grain here. I would not have this woman around my child - end of. She’s annoying and is undermining you and your values as a family unit. She can have her own children and raise them as she sees fit but I would not allow her to influence my child. I wear makeup each and every day, my daughter wears pretty dresses and ribbons in her hair and I won’t apologise to anyone.

Which, quite frankly, is tough

She can bring up her own children anyway she likes.

She can have reasonable conversations with the OP and her brother

But it's not for her to try and bring up her niece

Ugh I find your SIL so annoying. She's not the mother she should stay in her lane.

This!

YANBU
Your sil is trying too hard to be woke in situations that don’t warrant it. I don’t necessarily disagree with her sentiments but it’s not appropriate to undermine you nor to push an agenda so hard with a three yr old!
And as an aside, in the absence of any indication otherwise (which would be absolutely fine btw) I have always assumed my dd will date boys and my ds will date girls. That is what the majority of people do.

I can see where your SIL is coming from tbf.

I have a DS who is 7. DH and I got married when he was little so he was very curious about marriage and asked a lot of questions about who can get married etc. He asked if he could marry me for example and I said no, but when he's older he can marry anyone he wants. He's specifically asked me if boys can marry boys and I've said he absolutely can if that's what he wants. I know the chances are he will marry a woman if he ever does get married, but I don't want him to ever think that if he is bi/gay, that it wouldn't be a problem in any way.

Plenty of the boys at school have started on the whole 'pink is a girly colour therefore horrible' and I have to keep saying that pink isn't just for girls and there's nothing wrong with girls.

Only a slight majority of younger generations are fully straight. Likely for younger generations even less. Stats show that only around 50% of gen z are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to the opposite sex (and imagine if some of those people grew up in families or with peers who don’t accept that.)

Nonsense. Being “queer” has immense social currency right now and that is what is driving those “stats”. Nothing more boring than being a heterosexual youngster right now so they’re all pretending to be something else. They’ll grow out of it and the next generation will look back with incomprehension at how ridiculous it all was.

💯

I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"

So it’s not too early for you to speculate about her dating boys…but it is too early for SIL to point out she might have a different preference? I completely agree that 3 is way too early to be speculating on her sexuality, but that’s exactly what you did first! SIL was only following your lead - or do you just not like the suggestion she might choose to date girls? Otherwise I don’t see how it’s any different to saying she might choose to date boys, which you said.

Your SIL might be a bit OTT but I think you’ve got some engrained ideas you could do with a bit introspection on.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wearing makeup every day (I do) or dressing your DD in dresses and ribbons, nor should you ever be made to feel like you need to apologise for it etc, but I do think it's important to ensure children know that they do have a choice and it isn't 'bad' to not follow a certain trend or like different things. Maybe the SIL is coming across a bit strong but surely it's not a bad thing to expose them to something different?

Or if you are a fake tan / make-up always / lip filler type person

Well dd1 is a fake tan/make up always person - she's also a pretty decent centre midfielder - you can't judge a book by it's cover.

SIL is just challenging your stereotypes - boys might distract her so send her to a girls school - might not have worked for my gay middle daughter, going to the football - 2 of my 3 play and are passionate about it - looking pretty - even YOU didn't mean 'pretty' you meant clear and well dressed - so say that - she'll face enough external pressure to be 'pretty' and doesn't need that enforcing at home!

Baking as a hobby is not a bad thing but I taught mine to cook - an essential life skill - which started with helping me bake/cook so I don't see a huge issue with this.

It is possible to be both right and annoying.
Your SIL isn't wrong but she she does seem to be moving into your parenting space somewhat.
Ultimately you get to raise your dd the way you want to because you are her parent.

I'm no woke warrior but someone posted an article once which say how often we comment on girls' looks relative to boys. And by extension tend to comment on what girls are wearing and what boys like doing.

I have sons not daughters but when I go on FB, it's a fair observation. People post photos of their daughters and most posts are along the lines of "so beautiful" etc. I've taken it on board and try really hard to not do it with my nieces.

So I think your SIL has a point around reinforcing complements that aren't only based on appearance and beauty.

I can see why it's irritating, but I think she is trying to 'redress the balance' as I do think from your comments that you are tipping it the other way.
I am very careful not to talk about 'looking pretty' to my daughter, but rather 'looking smart' or 'looking presentable'.
You might think you are being neutral (though I am not sure you are.... interesting that her choice of clothes to the function was a dress or.... a dress - not trousers), but in fact society as a whole is not.
I remember reading about a study which showed girls were also better at things like reading and art because they were much more likely to be given that type of gift, whereas boys are given things like footballs.
Also - some kids will ask to play football/sport without any encouragement.... but many need to be encouraged and pushed a bit at the beginning. And the difference is that with a boy, parents unconsciously do more of the 'nudging', and as a result more of the boys get into it - whereas with the girls, the parents don't nudge so much (except for ballet), so unless the girl is highly motivated from the start, she will do less.

It's great that your DD has so many people in her life that love her. It's great that she will see they have different ideas and values and can still be a family.

as the same sex parent you are the single greatest role model in your DD's life. SIL's views may be extreme compared to yours and 'full on in their delivery but they are an absolute drop in the ocean compared with the influence you have on her.
Hearing alternative viewpoints from SIL is good. she might well grow up to disagree with her but she is hearing she can make her own choices and that's an excellent message.

In your third example you said 'I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty".'

This is probably what your SIL is picking up on (looking pretty). Of course no one is saying your DD shouldn't wear clean clothes, but as many other posters have said, it's what girls hear over and over again. It's often one of the hardest things I think to stop yourself doing or saying with girls - their clothes often are more interesting and pretty than boys' clothes, and as women we're socialised to compliment each other on our clothes and appearance.

I think SIL is coming from a really well meaning place. She could possibly tone it down if she's effectively saying 'boy stuff' is better - there's nothing wrong with baking, just because it's associated with girls.

Re schools - you've got years to think about it, but girls in single sex schools often do better academically.

These links might be helpful, or might be what SIL has been looking at. (Also, as someone who cared deeply about my young niece before I had children, she's probably also thinking it's very easy to combat stereotypes as she's not yet had to do it day in day out with her own kid!).

https://www.ravishly.com/2015/03/20/why-we-need-stop-devaluing-femininity

https://www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk/resources/raising-children-without-gender-stereotypes/

I think your SIL is overstepping. While what she’s saying is true, it sounds like she’s mentioning it at every opportunity - and unnecessarily. It’s not her job to mould your DD into her ideal child.

It sounded like she wanted your DD to go to football and was making a big thing of it. That’s not how you do it. You keep everything pretty neutral - ie don’t mention ‘girl things’ and ‘boy things’. Your SIL almost seems to be trying to push your DD to be a tomboy, possibly for her own gratification - ie so she can boast about her - or because she’s doing what she’d do with her own child with yours.

I’ll politely ask her to stop. Say that you’re raising your DD to be a confident, modern women but you’re doing it in your way. If she then makes a similar comment, raise your hand to stop her and say something jokey to your DD to distract from what SIL has said. That will reinforce to your DD that her choices are ok and also stop SIL interfering so much.

YABU. Your SiL isn't saying anything untoward. You're the one making assumptions about your DD: that she'll conform to feminine stereotypes.

And I wish people wouldn't comment on girls being "pretty" - I never was a pretty child or teenager, and you know what, I noticed, that the adults around me called my sisters pretty, but never me.

Yes it’s a bit much and would annoy me too. I mean she’s 3 for god sake 🙄. Have a word a tell her to tone it down.

Of course we'd be ok with that. SIL.. I don't know, I guess yes too?

As a girl who used to spend a lot of weekends watching my grandad work on his car in the garage, then pursued an engineering degree and went into finance... I wouldn't exactly say I'm a stereotypical girly role model. Although having said that I do take pride in my appearance if I'm heading out for a nice dinner date with my husband, I've chosen to give up my job in banking to be a SAHM and I try to cook meals every day for my family. Do we have to fall into one category or the other necessarily?!

If that was a mother-in-law the OP would be told to go low contact!

Yes! So true. The majority of threads are demonstrating the usual mumsnet ageist bias: SIL is 'one of us'. MIL is overstepping.

I agree with all the things SIL is saying but I would find this really irritating. It's the nitpicking almost finding faults with how you're parenting her. A bit performative parenting, but a back seat driver version.
Fwiw you sound like you've got a good attitude towards raising your daughter with her gender and you don't need to make a big song and dance of it with a 3 year old

I think talking about a 3 year old dating boys and looking pretty is a bit much. There's just so much pressure on girls to conform to this stereotype and to have people around you saying, 'You don't have to be this way' is really important.

So many girls are being made deeply unhappy by the way society stereotypes them.

Even when they're little girls are inhibited from physical play/exercise because of their flimsy impractical clothing.

Perhaps just suggest your sister in law takes your daughter to some kind of sporty activity together. Or if you don't like your sister in law, take your daughter yourself.