To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

I felt maybe this could possibly be the issue too! Maybe cool aunt has heard and seen things she doesn’t agree with.

Would you like to go like this?

This is where she clearly crosses the line. And I would make this very clear.

When your Mum asks you to do something, it's not for your Aunty to pipe up, effectively "you don't have to".

It's undermining.

I recognise some of what your sil is doing. But I think she's disrespectful of you to continue to do it so forcefully and repeatedly. Your daughter is not her social experiment.

She sounds fucking tiresome.

I live my life more like your SIL than you HOWEVER what’s irritating is that your SIL seems to see it as her job to educate her niece differently from her parents; or that she sees her niece as a project she’s entitled to influence.

I have really, really strong views about make up, pink, girly girly stuff (I have a DD and DS). When DD was a baby and toddler, actually right up to the age when people might buy her clothes as a gift, I didn’t hold back in my anti-pink thing. But she was my child, that was my right. If I’d wanted to dress her up as a doll and my SIL had tried to stop me, I’d have been extremely annoyed at her overstepping boundaries like that.

In reality, none of it matters. Your DD will figure it all out for herself soon enough. Neither of you will influence her that much!

I think I would have not minded any of those comments apart from the clothes one.I would have corrected SIL in the moment along the lines of “yes but we want you to be clean and smart don’t we DD” she is only offering an alternative view point. Not everybody’s opinions are always going to match up to yours.

Well, she is undermining old-fashioned, stone-age views, and that kid is lucky there is someone around to do that. As a child I was badly treated by a parent and I am so glad an aunt 'undermined' that.

Why are you discussing dating boys with a 3 year old?!

You are both extreme and she is just countering your over the top 1950s attitude.

If you chill, so will she.

I get it OP. I think the message behind all this is fine but she's being a bit heavy handed with it. I have a 4YO DD and she loves getting dressed up and wearing sparkly things and she loves unicorns, pink and purple. She also loves Spiderman and football. But I feel embarrassed she likes all the girly stuff as it now feels like girls shouldn't be girly even if they want to?

I think don't force them into anything, let them choose their own way and all these opinions are quite a lot for such a young kid. Agree with posts up thread to always be conscious of your internalised stereotypes and I'm always careful to say 'people' she might like to date instead of boys etc etc but ultimately if your DD likes stereotypically girly things then good for her!

SIL also seems to be making calls that she shouldn't be making imo. It's not up to her how your daughter looks leaving the house! I wouldn't want my DD going out in just tights and a vest in December either. it's not about how pretty she is.

I think she sounds great! She can come round mine any time.

I think your SIL is going to be a wonderful champion and ally in your daughter's life. If she were the parent, those sorts of comments continuously might be a problem. But if she's not living with you and just presenting an alternative way of thinking and being when you see her then I believe she's doing good.
Just on your point about boys, because I read you follow up comment - you thinking the probability is that she will grow up to like boys because that's most common is exactly the problem with the idea! Yes, the majority of people are straight, but that doesn't mean those who are not should consider themselves alternative. Bringing her up to believe she may like boys or girls or both or neither should be presented as the norm until she makes a choice herself.
Likewise with the dressing situation. Yes of course it's fine that you wanted her to get dressed into clean clothes, but you could have encouraged her by saying she needed to get dressed without adding the "because you'll look pretty" comment.
This is what your SIL is trying to balance.

I'd find SiL tiresome tbh. I might try to get in first eg go on a date so SiL cannot make a comment about dating girls without sounding stupid.

I'm definitely Team SIL! It's never too soon for girls to hear these messages.

Whilst I agree with SIL viewpoint, it’s all a bit much, she’s 3 let the kid enjoy what she enjoys. There’s a balance to be had, not everything needs a retort and reminder. It’s okay to let girls enjoy traditionally ‘girly’ things without it being an issue. When she’s older she’ll come into her own and lean towards what she likes.

Getting you used to what life will be like when DD is a teenager!

She sounds irritating AF and I think most posters would find it irritating too if they had to put up with every interaction with their child being picked apart.

My DD has always been very girly - loves pink, dresses, dolls etc. I've told her that people can wear what they want, boys can wear pink, men can marry men and women can marry women etc when it's come up naturally in conversation but constant comments like this would piss me off. My MIL was a bit like this except it wasn't because of any beliefs, it was just to try to disagree with me as much as possible ie if I made a joke that baby DD burping wasn't ladylike she'd shriek about how she can be anything she wants to be and if anyone has a problem they can see Grandma about it 🙄So glad we don't speak anymore.

The SIL is undermining OP and overstepping the mark MASSIVELY! How OP parents her child is up to her and her DH/DD's DF. Not SIL or you!

#TeamOP

@nhd

Geez, some of these answers ... 'I love SIL' etc. Nope I would NOT love her and would almost certainly have had a row with her by now.

She's annoying AF, and totally over-stepping to boot.

You seem to have a really good handle on how to approach your DD - issues with empowerment do not arise because of occasional (or even regular) comments about being pretty or imitating a parent applying makeup. It's much more about the values and ethos of how a family lives their lives, and as much about unstated views as anything else.

It's completely fine for DD to express a desire to be 'pretty' or for you to do so - it doesn't correlate with the mistaken beliefs of some here that this is now subjugating her to a life where she is judged exclusively on her physical appearance.

Above all that though, it's simply not SIL's role to decide what can and cannot be said to your DD, and what messages she needs to hear.

A good aunt (or other extended relative) is there in a benign, engaged role - can be easier-going and relaxed in a way a parent might not always be (as they are not responsible); can be another loving presence that's more a treat (as not there all the time) than a child's own parent is.

If they want to model anything, let them do so in their own lives and actions, that the child will observe - their relationships, priorities, job / education. They don't need to go around heavy-handed, picking up on innocuous comments and thinking they are making some point that a 3 yo picks up. They don't.

But ... as to what you can do ... I'm not sure. You probably don't want to have a row about it or make an issue - I think the MN hard stare / head tilt could be employed, but honestly, if there were enough irritating comments, I would call her out.

I think you sound great OP, btw!

@SouthLondonMum22 How OP raises her DC is NONE of your business! How dare you? This is about SIL overstepping the mark not how OP parents. JFC

Your sil seems to have a bit of a woke saviour complex with your dd! She sounds well meaning but pushy and ott, and needs to trust that you can raise a well rounded and well adjusted daughter. I actually think it's fine to tell your child they are beautiful, and wanting them to go out well presented does not mean that you are obsessed by looks, it means that you take pride in your appearance. I shouldn't imagine your dh would want to take a 3 yo of either sex to a football match. I also think its strange for her to talk about your 3yo dd's sexuality and to assume you won't be accepting if she chooses to date girls. My dd copied me when she was little, but wouldn't be caught dead wearing make up or girlie clothes as an older teen.

Some is ok-ish, although a bit repetitive and one track, but unless you are saying to your dd you are dressing up to impress men there is not need for it.

Better than my sister in law who tried to teach my 4 year old how to cry to get what she wanted!!

We are very much on the she will not be going to a single sex school - IMHO they should be banned.

She is in a foot team but also loves baking

We dont talk about looks, we talk about being fablous and confident

@PaulaPocket EVERY SINGLE PARENT has the right to raise their child however they see fit! Whether SIL or Paula on the internet agrees or not! This is OP's DD. Nobody else's. If your MIL started overstepping the mark like this I expect you'd be up in arms

I don't think it's wrong for people to say things like this to kids, but it's a bit much if she jumps in like this all the time. And she shouldn't be contradicting you as DD's parent e.g. when you've already made a decision (with dd) about what she's wearing to a party.

It's fine to tell a girl she doesn't have to always look pretty. But SIL shouldn't be on at her constantly about it. The poor girl could end up feeling that if she wants to look pretty, she's wrong to feel like that, or that it's naff to wear a dress to a party and cool to wear stained pyjamas and one sock because SIL thinks that.

Also I think that for a 3 year old the messages should be less full-on.

I hope that if your DD grows up to be a girly girl with ambitions to be a SAHM of six, your SIL accepts her as she is and doesn't lecture her incessantly about how she "didn't need to" make those choices. It goes both ways.

This!

Your SIL sounds great!

Yes you are totally BU.