To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

No, she isn't. She is a virtue signalling drone. Nothing 'empowering' in her kind of wokespeak.

The fact that the SIL was bullied for her looks growing up says it all. She is imposing her psychodrama on her niece, which is potentially damaging. She sounds like a woke crybully and I would be wary being around her or letting your daughter spend too much time with her.

Good for your SIL. She sounds awesome. She’s teaching your DD that she can be whoever she wants to be and she doesn’t have to change herself to please people. It’s great that she’s empowering her.

Why do people think that being woke is a bad thing? Surely being sensitive to the thoughts and feelings of others is something to aspire to not something to be criticised.

Where has she taught her that? She has taught her that if she shows her aunt her baking, she will get a boring lecture about how she should be out playing football. That is the opposite of empowering IMO. It is just as prescriptive as saying that she should be baking and should not be playing football.

That isn't what being woke means at all. It means being a crybully who shuts down all discussion with a series of soundbites about patriarchy/white supremacy/whatever the cause du jour is.

It really doesn’t but there is clearly no point arguing with you as you really don’t have a clue.

Oh please try to argue your case! It would be such fun to see you try!

yeah she needs to butt out. She can have her own kid.

hmmm she isn't being sensitive and thoughtful to the actual mother by undermining what she says. She needs to butt out.

I hope she doesn't. She would try to use them as a statement.

exactly. She could have said 'hey awesome cookies!' but no, she was a crashing bore instead.

it is exactly that.

😆😆😆

well. at 3 years of age, what would be good to hear is 'hey these cookies taste great!' and not an odd message about why she might like to be at football, instead of what she actually is doing. This SIL is transferring her own hang-ups onto a child and making it about herself. SHE is the one sending a message about gender roles.

Absolutely spot on.

I kind of see where you’re coming from. It sounds like she does cross the line a bit sometimes, though I think her heart is in the right place. I hate it when people who wish to be seen as progressive make an uncalled for judgement about someone else’s behaviour to create a “teachable moment” making themselves look and feel superior in the process. The makeup comment sounds a bit like that - as though you’re a walking stereotype and you’ve said you need to look pretty for men when (apparently) you haven’t. That is very annoying. The outfit change is even worse - very undermining, impractical, and an overstep. Overall she sounds like a decent person but she’s maybe overdoing it a bit. We all have to navigate tricky stereotyping issues, particularly with kids, and it sounds like you’re well aware and on board with that. It would be better if you were in on that together (when it comes to your child) and not in opposition where she’s presented as the ultimate feminist and you as the carrier of oppressive stereotypes. Perhaps a chat would sort that out.

I will add that taking your daughter to watch a boy relative play football and judging therefore that she would not like football herself doesn’t follow. Watching it and playing it are two very different things. I’d be very surprised at any three year old who likes to sit and watch other people play anything, particularly something with a lot of complex rules that aren’t immediately apparent. (I apologise if I misunderstood your comment about how she didn’t enjoy watching her cousin play/therefore has no interest in playing herself)

SIL is subtly undermining Mum when she says these things. She is imposing her view of the world on a child that is not her own in a way that is making mum feel uncomfortable. She should not be doing this. All those who are supporting SIL just imagine the roles are reversed and it was mum who was the feminist and SIL was the more traditional. Would it be alright then? Mumnetters would come down on SIL like a ton of bricks in those circumstances.

She's Accurate.

The example that would bother me most is the third one. If I was trying to get my child ready and out of the house for an event and someone was saying "oh, you can go like this" in a dirty vest, one sock and PJ bottoms in the middle of winter, that is quite unhelpful. No, she can't go like this because the clothes are dirty and not appropriate for the event or the weather. You've specifically told her to get dressed - no need to distract from getting ready or give a 3yo an opt out from listening to their parent when they are trying to keep to schedule.

That said, it does annoy me when people constantly tell their daughters to look pretty if they don't point out anything else. I don't think you are alone in commenting on your child's looks though. I often tell my sons how cute they are - I don't do it to fixate on their looks, I just sometimes look at them sometimes and think "you are sooooo cute!" so I say it out loud. I'm sure most parents do occasionally! Just make sure it isn't the only thing you comment on and you also focus on her being strong/fast/clever/helpful/kind/funny etc.

Re the football thing, I think your SIL was a bit clumsy and perhaps scored an own goal on the feminism pitch. By rejecting the cookies and telling her she could've gone to watch football instead, your SIL is subtly telling your daughter that football is better than baking and by extension those who play football (usually male) have more worth than those who bake (usually female). Also, your daughter was active in the baking whereas she would've just been a spectator to the football and surely it is better to be doing something you enjoy rather than watching someone else do something they enjoy?

definition of woke:

”aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)”

Honestly if this what you think woke is you are completely two dimensional.

Me too, though I think in eg3 I'd encourage clean clothes for occasions, it shows a sign of self worth.

What I find very unfeminist is the assumption that traditionally male activities (e.g. football) are somehow better or more worthy than traditionally female activities (e.g. baking). Especially ridiculous seeing as you can very easily go through life without being able to play football, whereas you'd struggle to get through life without being able to cook!

Also, how ridiculous that your SIL thinks playing with a toy kitchen will teach your daughter to cook for a man rather than to cook for, perhaps, herself?!

I always think my niece is a perfect example of a feminist upbringing- she loves Disney films and sparkly skirts, and also loves dinosaurs and is an absolute daredevil. She likes what she likes, with no thought towards whether it is traditionally masculine or feminine.

And for all those attacking the OP for being a SAHM- would you do the same if her husband was a SAHD? I'm a SAHM with a wife who works, so am I a problem too?

She sound hard work and patronising. Why does she assume you and your dh need to be educated?

I'd just say we dont believe in limiting our daughters choices just to fit in to societal expectations. If she tries to say she's not doing that I'd ask her how telling dd she shouldn't play with a kitchen is any better/different than telling her she shouldn't play with a football. It's all telling girls how to fit in.