To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

[nhd]

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

Too annoyingly woke for me. I’d tell her to stop manipulating my child and don’t contradict me, ever, or you won’t be part of her life.

DD was gifted a toy kitchen and as DD began playing with it SIL asked why we allow those kinds of toys, to which DH responded that we just "allow" age appropriate toys and anything she will enjoy playing with, including some toy tanks that she inherited from her boy cousin and a miniature car that she can "drive" / sit inside among others. SIL gave him a huge lecture about how we're just confining her to cooking for a man and it's encouraging her to focus on only girl skills etc

Yep, she's over the top and actively trying to restrict her niece's opportunities, not extend them.

Let's face it, you're woke because it let's you be annoyed with the world because you're unhappy in your own skin.

I think she's just offering and adding alternative views so your DD grows up knowing that there's more than way to do things. Your DD will probably just copy you nevertheless but if at some point she feels that that's not her, she knows that there are other options because her aunty often reminds her of them. Think of this as a well-balanced upbringing because she's being shown different ways and reminded that things are not set on stone just because she's a girl. It's a great message to grow up with, and even if she still chooses baking or whatever, children change mind so quickly over the years that when and if the stage of football comes, she will know it's perfectly fine, and if after a few years she turns suddenly into a gymnastics passionate, she will know that it's also perfectly fine. Be happy that she has so many different views around her so she can truly explore what she likes and evolve without the fear that whatever might not be suitable or that she won't get support.

Eg1. Of course she hasn’t but you’re positioning the norm as straight. If she is homosexual she will be very aware of that as she grows up. The norm and other.

I think she's just offering and adding alternative views so your DD grows up knowing that there's more than way to do things.

@JediNinja Let’s hope that’s the case, but given how the SIL criticizes her Mum for cooking, DH and her DH for toy choices, etc., I have a feeling that if her niece ends up liking anything her auntie doesn’t approve of, she’ll be laid into as well!

from all the responses I’m reading the op should not tell her daughter that she’s pretty, so just remain non committal, therefore making her feel nothing she does is good enough. Neither should she be teaching her to bake, even though baking is a life skill.

clearly I failed at parenthood, telling my son what a handsome boy he was, and teaching him how to bake and cook and clean up after himself. I also failed my daughter by insisting by that she change out of jodhpurs and football shirts to get into school uniform. I also told both of them what beautiful souls they were/are.

both are heterosexual, married and with thriving careers.

She’s not doing anything wrong and actually kinda filling in the gaps you’re missing. 3 year olds don’t take hints - you have to say it.

You don’t seem to want to actually hear what people are saying to you.

You've got an argument for everything - why ask if you’re not going to listen?

I have 2 children, one AFAB who’s a teen and one toddler who is a rather girly girl - I do not use “pretty” as a describer, it’s not what I’ve ever want my children to worry about.

Your SIL is actually right in pointing out your DD may want to date girls, especially within that conversation - do you not think a single sex school with only her preferred dating pool would be distracting?
She didn’t say your DD should go to football, she simply reminded her she could. My eldest wasn’t interested in football at 3 and is now a very successful goalie because they were always told they could do whatever they wanted.
You were the one who emphasised your DD would be pretty in a dress.

The amount of ‘pretty’, ‘dresses’ and ‘make up’ that will be shoved down the throat of a little girl it’s actually very important for them to be told ‘pretty’ means nothing and they are perfect as they are.

I would suggest you adjust your perspective - having this separate voice will be far more helpful to your DD than it will be ‘harmful’

Stop arguing because you think you’re right and you don’t like the answers you’re getting and hear what people are trying to tell you.

You seem quite negative to people not saying you are right.

Having a different voice than yours for your DD is vital.

She will find her own way in her own time and in 10 years - you will realise you are not the most influential factor in her life. Your SIL is providing an strong view of womanhood..

I’m willing to bet the vast majority of team SIL would be mightily pissed off if a family member worked out their underlying prejudices and tried to make sure they didn’t rub off on their kids. Can nobody put themselves in OP’s shoes?

I mean I agree with the SIL’s views, but she’s overstepping and undermining.

I wish I'd had an aunt like that. I see no issue with any of that except possibly the stained vest being acceptable for a special occasion and then I'd say a dress isn't necessary.

That said I have the girliest daughter who is into all the things I say she shouldn't have to like just because she's a girl. It goes both ways. Teach a child they can choose and can please themselves not men/society and she may just choose to be girly mothering homemaker

Bloody ek. From @nhd update, the SIL is fucking crazy. She is actively restricting her niece from doing anything remotely linked to feminine activities, with the way she declared she shouldn’t be “allowed” to have a toy kitchen. The child is 3, FFS. So what if she has a toy kitchen, these things are fun to play with, and nothing wrong if a grown woman enjoys cooking, either. SIL’s feminism is basically preventing girls from doing what they might enjoy, and pushing them to do to traditionally boyish activities, even if they DON’T want to. Maybe some women are happy as they are, and don’t want to fit into this new age trend, where they are forced to be like men, for the sake of proving a point, to their own detriment. A corruptive influence.

Funny how many OP’s always seem to drip in extreme examples later when the lay of the land of replies isn’t looking exactly how they want it to. Happens a lot.

I have noticed this a lot tbh with general threads. But I wouldn’t be surprised if OP is being honest about her SIL. Some people are extreme, and I don’t agree with SIL trying to push her own beliefs onto someone else’s child.

Holy crap, she's three! She doesn't need any form of ideology being presented to her at this moment in time! She has no concept of sexuality, or being sexually attractive. Tell her she has chosen a pretty dress, let her bake if she wants to without trying to persuade her that it's somehow making a statement about "who she is". I would tell the aunt to back off, and possibly not that politely if she persisted in discussing it with me or her. Let her be a small child, learning how to manage how to function in her world without trying to imply that she is a mini adult, and that her choices now have any bearing on who she will become in time.

That was my thought too. Surely the most extreme example would be in the OP?

I don't know why you are getting such a hard time OP, reading through what you have said I agree with pretty much everything you are doing, it sounds like you are allowing your DD to be who she wants to be. Maybe a few small comments e.g pretty and boys at school, but I don't think that's anything many of us aren't guilty of, non of us are perfect. The main thing is you are being balanced and accepting overall without any extremes.

I was brought up in a similar way, my parents supported any interests I wanted to have. I never played football or been to a football match because I just don't like it and have never understood the appeal, same with all sports! But I know had I wanted to do it I could of, same with all choices in my life. I am really girly in some ways love makeup - same as you the creativity and it's fun and relaxes me, I am always wearing dresses - because I love them, feel most comfortable and I don't have to match anything 😂but I hate cooking and baking, had my nails done once for my wedding and hated them, like gaming and watching streamers and love marvel films etc. I like what I like!

I do agree mostly with the principles of what your SIL is saying, but she's going about it the wrong way and being too extreme in regards to when and how often she's saying these things, as I get the impression this is Everytime she sees DD. If this is true, I do think it has potential to be harmful, she will grow up thinking she needs to change herself to get her aunties acceptance by either showing interest in something she doesn't like or pretending not to like something she does. E.g pretending to like football and not like baking when that's not how she truly feels or feeling conscious about wearing makeup if she enjoys it.

So just to say OP you sound wonderful and you are doing a great job, maybe speak to sister in law and emphasize that you are allowing her to be herself and make choices but do not feel it needs to be mentioned in every conversation.

Not if you’re not getting the chorus of outrage you expected…

I’m with your SIL too. I’ve also said the first with my son along the lines of ‘whoever you love in the future’

I may be the only one but I agree that your SIL is out of order and too woke for my liking. I agree with you that if your daughter wanted to go to football you would have allowed it or let her play with cars if she wanted. It is confusing to say to a little girl that she doesn’t need to look nice for anyone - we should all have pride in our appearance when we go out and it improves our self esteem when we think we look nice.

Sil overstepping massively

Everybody here praising the sil for her behaviour clearly have no idea of the concept of child agency

Your SIL may be a bit annoying to you, but she sounds like a wonderful, caring aunt, who has some good points. Be the bigger person and forget about it. It's not harming your child, let's be honest.

I'm not sure if you'll see this comment (you've had so many!) But this is exactly what it's like with my SIL but I have 2 DS, and honestly it's not the fact that she claims to be a ultra feminist - it's the constant assumption that I'm not going to bring up my kids to have open minds. It's also bringing up topics that I don't want my young ones to focus on - I want them to have a childhood, to choose what they want to play with, and be happy. It's not about dating, looks, pushing preferences etc for a 3 year old, so in my opinion it's too early for these comments, and I would and do get irritated by it.
She once said she's going to teach my kids about same sex couples, like my best friend and her wife won't naturally have this in hand. It can be borderline insulting as a parent sometimes, even if it's not meant that way. I'm definitely going to make the boundaries as clear as I can.

it's the constant assumption that I'm not going to bring up my kids to have open minds.

Exactly. And given the OP 's history it's bizarre that her SIL thinks that she's not going to encourage her child to be open to every opportunity, whether classically a female or male interest or field of study.

And of course she's not alone . It seems that the majority of posters have been completely lazy, haven't not bothered reading OP 's posts properly, and think her child lacks a role model.

I still love how blind people also are to the fact that if it was a MIL sticking her beak in and undermining the OP, they'd react totally differently. It's actually bewildering how biased and blinkered so many posters are.