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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be annoyed by SIL making these comments towards my DD

785 replies

nhd · 15/12/2023 15:00

SIL is very much a feminist, very woke etc but to the extreme. My DD is 3.

DD is the first grandchild to ILs and first niece / nephew to my SIL. (I think) she wants to remain child free at least for now, so she sees DD as her closest small person. SIL and PIL want to take an active part in the upbringing of my DD which I'm not necessarily against - the more loving people a child is surrounded by the better in my view. SIL and I aren't very close but we have a good relationship in that we get on when we are together but wouldn't choose to hang out as a 2 without my DH or wouldn't share deep personal secrets. All this is to say that SIL is a nice person, loves DD and doesn't make these comments maliciously I think, but they still really really irritate me and I think they're harmful.

Comments that she will make:
Eg1. We are discussing schools and I mentioned in passing mixed / single sex secondary school and dating boys. SIL instantly comments "or girls if she chooses to date them!"
Eg2. SIL comes over and DD shows her some biscuits that we made that afternoon whilst DH was at football. SIL "you know, just because you're a girl doesn't mean you need to stay home and bake. You could have gone to football with Daddy if you wanted" (DD was excited to bake, she has never expressed any interest in football).
Eg3. I am helping my daughter to put on a dress (gave her a choice of 2, she picked this one) before we go to a family function. SIL comes in (we don't live together but we were driving her there so she came to our house first) and DD runs to hug her but as we've got to leave, after a few mins, I say "come on, let's finish getting dressed, you'll look so pretty". At this point DD is wearing a stained vest, PJ bottoms and one sock. SIL "that's okay, you don't have to look pretty for anyone. You look how you like! Would you like to go like this?" I'm all for giving kids choices but surely I can at least encourage my daughter to wear clean clothes and dress up for occasions? Of course I'd let her wear something else if she didn't like a dress but why put ideas in her head?
Eg4. And the "you don't have to look pretty for anyone" is an ongoing thing. I was once putting on make up before heading out for date night, SIL came over to babysit. DD started copying me, pretending to put on make up, then came up to the mirror and said "wow so pretty, like mummy!" SIL once again said to her "but remember, you don't have to ever try to put on make up or change yourself to impress a man"

OP posts:

HomburgandTrilby · 16/12/2023 19:11

CurlewKate · 16/12/2023 19:09

It is extraordinary to me that these very mild comments are considered extreme. And the "Is SIL gay?" question is beyond offensive!

Yes, there are some incredibly reactionary people on this thread.

AnnieSnap · 16/12/2023 19:11

50soonouch · 16/12/2023 18:59

You write this dilemma to a website full of the most anal feminist woke extremists and expected to get a fair response? This is the website saturated with 'we hate men because purely because they have a d*ck' females (not allowed to use the term female now apparently).

I cannot stand your sis-in-law. Her comments are dull, not edgy, shows her personal insecurities and I have no clue how you haven't murdered her thus far. Personally I would LTB and never entertain her again. Monotonous twat that she is.

Edited

Your comment is ridiculous 🙄

pinkfun · 16/12/2023 19:12

It's simple, SIL has an issue with gender stereotypes, this could be because she's very woke and influenced by people online who are woke, or she is struggling with her identity and she's worried the same will happen to your DD.

Basically though, it's not her place to be concerned about your daughter because you clearly don't force anything on her anyway.

Tell your SIL it's a bit much!

SerafinasGoose · 16/12/2023 19:12

50soonouch · 16/12/2023 18:59

Edited

Pathetic response. But it's one typical of much of the 'trailing' on this site, which interprets any assertion of women's boundaries, or lack of tolerance of being expected to be chief cook and bottle-washer, or daring not to tolerate infidelity on account of the fact that he 'might have depression', as 'man-hating'.

It's predictable as the sun coming up that a post to this tune will appear on every single thread, particularly those detailing abusive behaviour or containing any variation on the theme of feminism.

That's coming from one who views OP's SiL as an evangelical, tedious bore and a gigantic overstepper, irrespective of whether I personally agree with her views.

Tandora · 16/12/2023 19:13

LalaPaloosa · 16/12/2023 19:05

I’d be annoyed. She’s pushing an agenda. Just let the child be and enjoy her activities. If I’d arranged an afternoon of baking, or anything else, for my daughter and I, I’d find it undermining for someone to turn up and disparage it and suggest she could have gone somewhere else. It is not your SIL’s place. I’d have a word as it’s discouraging your daughter and it’s highly critical. I say this as a professional woman who believes women and girls are equal to males.

Yeh the “agenda” SIL is pushing is:

being gay is a possibility and an ok option;
your hobbies don’t have to be defined by your gender;
your value as a person isn’t routed in being conventionally pretty or attractive to men.

The world would be a happier place if we all got behind SIL’s “agenda”,

Sleepytiredyawn · 16/12/2023 19:14

nhd · 15/12/2023 19:05

@MrsAllsorts

Does your SIL ever were makeup?

Not really, in the 9 years I've known her she's worn make up 3-4 times max and very subtle, maybe some mascara and that's it.

Does she dress up or would she go out looking like a slob because appearance doesn't matter? Despite what she says, do her daily habits, clothes etc, match the convictions she spouts at YOUR daughter?
She doesn't exactly walk around in dirty clothes but she wouldn't dress up either. Although she does own clothes that have stains on them that won't wash out or rips but will continue wearing it, point out the stain / rip and say she will continue wearing the item because it's comfy. Which is her choice and I wouldn't comment on it, in the same way I'd prefer she didn't tell me how to dress.
Or she has said she will go on a date with a guy straight after going for a run in the park without coming home to change or will roll out of bed and not necessarily do much aside from clean her teeth and if he doesn't like that she's dressed in sporty clothes / looking flushed / no make up / she has bed hair then he's too superficial and it's his loss, she's not interested.

How did she attract your brother?
She's single, she's my SIL through being my husband's sister as opposed to my brother's wife.

Are her comments about looks etc to make her feel better about never wanting to make an effort with herself? This is how I read how it sounds.

I like to wear make up, I do it for me. It’s ok for a female/girl to know that if it makes them feel good then they can do it. It goes both ways really, wear it, dont, but there’s nothing wrong with make up is all I mean.

Honestly, just ignore her, if this is genuinely just her being her and she’s harmless then I’d ignore. If she’s saying these things to maybe undermine you, then I would say something, only you know the tone of her voice when things are being said.

Tandora · 16/12/2023 19:15

CurlewKate · 16/12/2023 19:09

It is extraordinary to me that these very mild comments are considered extreme. And the "Is SIL gay?" question is beyond offensive!

Thank you , I thought the same. And then OP answered with all sincerity that no she doesn’t appear to be gay , so that doesn’t explain her bad behaviour, but she is / was considered ugly ! 😱

CountessWindyBottom · 16/12/2023 19:16

I really wouldn’t worry and it’s certainly not something I’d be confronting your SIL with. She clearly loves your daughter and it’s no harm having her express her own views to your daughter which you deem to be irritating but your SIL obviously deems empowering. I genuinely wouldn’t let it bother me in the slightest.

Tiredandhungryneedwine · 16/12/2023 19:17

I love your SIL, I can imagine it might feel
a bit undermining but I completely agree with all the sentiments. I dressed my child in quite gender neutral clothes until she could choose herself. Often had the opposite, older people thinking she was a boy just because she wasn’t in pink or a dress. The stereotypes are real and the more you can do to counteract the better as the younger generation lead the way with this stuff and it’s good to be on that wavelength. Especially agree with the appearance stuff, as i would hope most modern thinking parents would.

pinkfun · 16/12/2023 19:17

@Tandora but the issue here is she's doing all this to a 3 year old!!!!! That is extreme! So therefore would imply she's got issues...??

DitheringBlidiot · 16/12/2023 19:17

SkySecret · 15/12/2023 15:40

All the people digging at OP for suggesting she might date boys…. ignoring that SIL said she didn’t need to wear make up “for a man” lol. Double standards, much.

It’s not inappropriate to make an innocent assumption that your very young kid will be heterosexual. The issue would come further down the line if you instilled into them that homosexuality is wrong, or didn’t accept them if they did come out as gay. Relationship and sex ed talk is a long way off for this small child.

Personally I think it's quite weird to think about any child's sexuality.

GillianCarole · 16/12/2023 19:24

Parent confirmed that she isn't gender-specific with daughter (although may have made a generalisation in passing), and that DD did go to a football match, but didn't enjoy it, and not interested in playing.

Ladysmirnoff1 · 16/12/2023 19:25

Blimey so many woke people on here. She's your daughter . Bring her up as you see fit. I feel at 3 years old she should just enjoy being a child and not being told that she can be a lesbian , go out dressed in dirty clothes etc. She can make her own mind up when she's older. Let her enjoy the innocence of being a child.

Perky1 · 16/12/2023 19:29

Sister in law imposing her values on your child without your permission it’s a red flag!

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 16/12/2023 19:39

nhd · 15/12/2023 15:25

She's gone to a football match (played by her cousin) and asked to leave.

I'm not limiting her to dating anyone, I'm discussing choice of schools and whether she will be with boys (whom she may or may not want to date) or without

Show quote history

But are you taking the same thing into account about girls when considering the same-sex schools?

I am raising my DD in a similar way to what your SIL sounds like she'd approve of tbh. Not every time I speak to her but then again I'm with my DD more than your SIL is likely with yours. But it's not terrible to remind girls from a young age that they CAN in fact do anything (whether that's bake or play football) and that make up is optional and clothes don't have to be "pretty". They are SURROUNDED by people calling them or girly things pretty. Your job is to make it known that non "girly" is also OK, and still pretty. She's still pretty with one sock on and soup down her top. Yes encourage her to wear clean clothes but for hygiene not prettiness.

If, after being neutral on everything, she wants to be a Disney princess, all power to her. Equally if she wants to spend all her time in dirty clothes working on cars, brilliant. But its up to her. I've never been what you'd call girly or enjoyed "making myself pretty". My DD asks for pink, dresses and dolls sometimes and I am happy for her to have them. Same as when she asks for dinosaurs and cars and announces BALL KICK when she wants to play football. Go for it. Try everything not just what mummy likes.

H007 · 16/12/2023 19:45

YABU SIL is exactly the type of person all little girls should have around, everything she is saying is true and will empower your little girl.

TreacleMines · 16/12/2023 19:47

SouthLondonMum22 · 16/12/2023 18:06

Maternity leave is available when women have just given birth for up to a year. You don't need to be a SAHM for that.

Of course they are conditioned to be carers. Studies show that adults treat boy babies and girl babies differently, it starts from day dot.

Show quote history

Of course they are conditioned to be carers. Studies show that adults treat boy babies and girl babies differently, it starts from day dot.

You are preaching to the choir, in my former life I was a sociologist- I know how socialisation works.

What you are saying makes as much sense as me saying “all women who choose to have a relationship with a man are not making a feminist choice- if women stopped having relationships with men then the gender stereotypes would be better challenged. All women who marry and combine income with a man are contributing to men holding the economic power etc etc”.

teoma · 16/12/2023 19:56

I think talking to a 3 year old about dating is ridiculous.

lovelyoldtree · 16/12/2023 20:00

My daughter loved everything pretty and sparkly growing up. My niece refused point blank to wear any girls' clothes from the age of 3. We let them get on with what they were comfortable with and it hasn't restricted who they are as adults.

Original poster

nhd · 16/12/2023 20:05

AllyArty · 16/12/2023 18:45

I think your SIL is overstepping the mark. What does yr husband think of her comments. I wonder if she had her own children would she be so pass remarkable about your child? I think u and yr husband should have a chat with her and tell her how you feel. If you don’t address it now she won’t stop.

My DH just says that's the way she is and you can't change her. On one occasion (separate story but DD was gifted a toy kitchen and as DD began playing with it SIL asked why we allow those kinds of toys, to which DH responded that we just "allow" age appropriate toys and anything she will enjoy playing with, including some toy tanks that she inherited from her boy cousin and a miniature car that she can "drive" / sit inside among others. SIL gave him a huge lecture about how we're just confining her to cooking for a man and it's encouraging her to focus on only girl skills etc. How rude of people (my very close friend who is like an aunty to DD and 100% knows what would be fine and wouldn't be fine with me) to gift without asking me. How thoughtless of us to just let her play with what she enjoys without thinking how it impacts her. Asked DH if he cared at all how his daughter will grow up.

He just laughs it off and says it's his sis

OP posts:

teoma · 16/12/2023 20:06

Your SIL is seriously messed up.

Themaghag · 16/12/2023 20:07

I can’t believe the pile on! If I were you OP, I’d tell your SIL that when she has her own child she can bring it up however she likes, but until then she should butt out and leave you to bring up your child as you wish! And I speak as an ardent feminist myself!

MaidOfSteel · 16/12/2023 20:08

VanityDiesHard · 15/12/2023 23:32

I totally agree. These 'feminist' threads all seem to go the same way. You are only a true feminist if you dress in a boiler suit to go on a night out, work full time as well as parenting your children, to show that women can have it all, and bring up your girl children to see lipstick as the enemy. I haven't seen anything like it since 1995. Absurd.

Show quote history

Until I started reading some of the nasty, judgmental replies in this thread, I would have called myself a feminist. But this new feminism seems to be all about showing disdain & disgust for women who want to stay at home to bring up their children. I'm in my 50s now and women putting other women down for their own decisions, why ever made, isn't what I thought feminism was about.

Thementalloadisreal · 16/12/2023 20:08

pinkfun · 16/12/2023 19:17

@Tandora but the issue here is she's doing all this to a 3 year old!!!!! That is extreme! So therefore would imply she's got issues...??

Why is it “extreme” to tell a 3 year old girl they can like football and have a girlfriend one day? Is it also “extreme” to tell a 3 year old girl they can like ballet / make up etc and have a boyfriend one day?

It’s really not that crazy to bring children up to be more open minded.

saraclara · 16/12/2023 20:11

But it's not terrible to remind girls from a young age that they CAN in fact do anything (whether that's bake or play football

Of course it isn't. I imagine that everyone here agrees with that. Including OP who is an engineering graduate, not a nurse or a hairdresser.

But it's HOW AND WHEN sil is doing it that's the problem. Ignoring her niece's pride in her baking achievement, overriding OP when it comes to her asking her DD to get dressed, etc.

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