Was I right to pull him out of the Nativity?

[cantsleepinbed]

DS is five and in year one. The school have referred him for an ASD assessment that we have in January.

He was really scared about doing the Nativity and said he doesn't like people looking at him. I spoke to the school and they said they'd put him at the back with the older children so people couldn't see him.

He seemed happy with that until the day of the Nativity. He refused to go to School. The only way I could get him there was by telling him he didn't have to do it all. Spoke to the school when we got there. All fine. They let him sit in the older class who weren't doing the Nativity.

DS loved going in the older class. Perfectly happy.

But I've since had comments from a relative who thinks I made a mistake and that DS needed to just get on with it. That I'm othering him. He'll end up with no friends as he'll be forgotten, overlooked, etc. If he keeps missing all the stuff the other kids are doing. He'll be different and that will exclude and isolate him.

I do undstand their point but also, I didn't want DS to be unhappy and I couldn't bloody get him to school. What was I supposed to do?

Other things include not sitting with his class when they went to the panto as he was petrified so had to sit at the back with his favourite teacher. Won't do sports day, etc.

As a mum of a dual diagnosed child who has autism and ADHD I think you did the right thing. My son is 11 and the last nativity he took part in was when he was 3. He was so overwhelmed by the noise, busyness and being watched he shook, cried, refused to stay still as he kept trying to run out of the room and stimmed the whole time. I didn't know he was autistic at the time or would have let him opt out. He still opts out of nativity plays. Contrary to what a lot of people believe nativity plays are not the be all and end all. For some children including mine they are a source of terror, anxiety and overwhelming. We wouldn't force an adult into doing a show that makes them feel that way so why do it to a child?

Ignore the resilience comments. He will learn resilience as he gets older but right now he needs to feel safe and less anxious or he can't learn resilience. My son has been allowed to opt out of assemblies, Nativities etc but has never been given the option of opting out of learning, school days out or transition to secondary. He is now well above the national average for reading, maths, has a lovely group of friends and does very well in school. I frequently get feedback as to how polite and well behaved he is in public.

Pick your battles and put your hard hat on as you are going to get lots of unwelcome and unwanted advice. Ignore it all you know your child best and can make the best decision for him. Well done OP on putting your son's needs first. Your a great mum.

But that’s you. And you did those things because you wanted to be able to do them, however uncomfortable.

I have ASD and was always fine with school plays and performing in general. There are other things I am not fine with. I arrange my life as an adult so I don’t have to do them. Kids don’t have the same autonomy, so need to be supported, not forced into doing things they simply can’t cope with. I think OP did exactly the right thing here.

As the parent of an neurodivergent child I have learned to ignore advice and opinions (and judgement) from people who are not neurodiverse or don't have neurodiverse children. It is almost never helpful.

I’d have done the same. Two kids with ASD here. My tactic has been to always try but absolutely not to overwhelm the child.

This is a hugely important point.

You do not develop resilience by forcing children to do things they are very panicky and anxious about.

Yeah, of course the reason why some of us achieved less in life is because we were sitting out our first Nativity at 5 y.o.
Your relative is ridiculous.

It's about balance, though, isn't it? I have masked all my life and have done loads of things - but quite a lot I didn't need to. They didn't add anything, but they took away an awful lot in terms of the physical and mental distress they caused me.

I support my ND child in their choices now, push them to do things that will add value and richness, and don't push them to do things - like school plays - that will add absolutely nothing to their life. This idea that we 'have' to do everything is such bullshit. We really don't! We can choose, and we can help our kids choose, and if we support them when they need to be supported it will build learning and resilience in a meaningful way.

Yes, I know “that’s me” …. I’m giving a polite alternative perspective to the OP, from another person with ASD, which I’m assuming is what she wanted since she asked.

As an adult, you are never put in the position of having to perform a show live in front of loads of people. Why should it be different for children?

I'm with you op.

DS got a diagnosis of ASD at 7 but it was always clear he was a bit more complex.

So sports day, he sat on the end and hold his book tightly until his race. Did he stand out as different? Maybe. But he was there.

School panto, walked into the dark room, was HYSTERICAL!! I couldn't calm him. We sat in the atrium, went back in the lit panto for snack, tried again. Hysteria. Back to the atrium. Did he stand out as different? Yes. But he also wasn't hysterical. And incidentally ADORES the theatre now. We go to the Hippodrome in the City when we can. Panto. Kids shows. He even did a proper Opera.

Your child stands out as different because he is. That's ok. He has friends. Kids are INCREDIBLY tolerant and ignorant of differences.

And he's also on nasal cañnula O2. The kids just carry on as normal cos it IS normal, that's just a thing that's normal about Jack. And they're very helpful. He's scatty and kids will always follow him out with stuff he's forgot. He has social issues, but it's not about the kids tolerance of him.

Surely the best thing is to build up gradually, so like the panto sitting at the back with the TA.

When slightly older might be able to help backstage rather than be on the stage

Yes, I agree it is about balance. And I don’t think the OP was wrong at all, my post was more about offering a different perspective on more significant things that might come in the future.

That's such an old school approach and we've thankfully moved on from that. I'm guessing it was your mum or dad?

You did absolutely the right thing. He should be listened to and his needs met, not forced to do things.

Encourage as much as you can but not to the point of being traumatic.

I have a son with ASD (now an adult) and your approach sounds completely right.

IMO the way forward is to push the envelope of what they are comfortable with very gently, expanding their capabilities and comfort zone over the long term. THAT is how you build confidence and resilience. Not by shoving them into situations they genuinely hate and fear and cannot cope with.

My son is a happy and confident adult and I have NEVER regretted the times I let him off things he wasn't ready for. I've only ever regretted the times I pushed him too far.

Unfortunately you get a lot of ignorant people commenting on your parenting when you have an ASD kid, usually telling you that you're being too soft on them. This is endemic and unfortunately there are some people you just need to ignore.

Sounds like you made the right decision for your son, at that time.

I would monitor how much this kind of thing happens, in order to assess how the school are meeting his needs. Sometimes "inclusion" ends up being the complete opposite if the environment isn't right or if the teachers don't have enough resources to enable your child to fully access the education they are entitled to. Sadly too many parents of kids with additional needs find they have to fight for this.

I was a shy and extremely self-conscious child and my life was made sheer hell by people forcing me to join in with things. Standing there, shaking with terror, with a bright red face and fighting back tears, knowing that everyone is looking at you does not inspire you with confidence and resilience, it makes you feel like everyone is laughing at you and you want the ground to open up under your feet and swallow you up.

Agreed and I get what @AristotlesWife says too. My son would play video games at home all day and night if we let him but we need to encourage him to have healthy pursuits too. However if he gets overwhelmed by demands we pull back. He does karate one night a week and when we went to two nights it was too much for him so we moved back to one night. He does other activities too but always at a level he can cope with.

I've had a fear of heights all my life. I can get vertigo on stairs or escalators. I've been ski-ing, I've been up and down mountains on the easier paths, while hating it all the while and absolutely exhausted at the end of the day, emotionally exhausted and wrung out from controlling myself feeling petrified rather than a lack of fitness. I don't feel a sense of achievement from doing it, I'd just rather stay at ground level and have never been up there at all.

I still get vertigo on some sets of stairs.

Some things are not a case of feeling uncomfortable and the more you do it you get over it, you do it, you feel incredibly uncomfortable and you still feel uncomfortable however much you expand your "comfort zone". You've given it a good go and decided you don't like it. Some things I don't have to give a go to know I wouldn't like, just to check, such as bungee jumping and base jumping. I am happy to go on stage and act, dance and speak in front of people, but for others that's like base jumping for me. And for adults you likely never have to bother with that again, for some after they are five and have done a Nativity play.

And if they haven't been forced on stage when they are terrified, they might be less bothered about it later rather than remembering that time they were terrified, embarrassed, and had no control over their choices.

👏Absolutely this.

A 5 year old child petrified of an audience isn't manipulating anyone. Picking him up, dragging him into the classroom, dragging him to the hall, forced ng him to cower at the back of the stage, none of that is good for ANY child. Let alone one with likely ASD.

DS wasn't forced to sit through panto at 4 because it was too much. A year later, he was better able to cope. Now he adores theatre. Forcing him to confront something terrifying like that at such a young age wouldn't have done that. Security and respect for his fear so we could work through it did.

First of all, my son doesn't do nativity plays for religious reasons and has a very fun and active social life and friends at school. This doesn't make him feel 'othered' I know because I ask him and we discuss it often.

Secondly my so does have ASD too and works with a 1-2-1 at times and has various things changed for him at class times to help him manage. This also doesn't make him feel bothered, they are changes to help with his well being and there's nothing wrong with that. Your relative is lacking understanding of the situation.

Prior to diagnoses many of my relatives also thought I need to just force my son to do certain things or not do them, as a lesson, so that eventually he woukd be fine with it but unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Focusing on the things your child finds incredibly difficult and forcing it is a recipe for low self esteem and feelings of failure.

I think you did the right thing. It doesn't mean your child will ALWAYS struggle with this. But forcing it won't make it easier next time. It will possibly just be more traumatising.

Your relative has no notion of how being forced to do things can negatively affect an ND child. Their thinking is very old fashioned.

Your job is to advocate for your child, not force him into boxes considered appropriate by others, especially when it comes at his expense.

Well done for standing up for him, OP.

What skills? Since when has standing in front of an audience been a important life skill.

OP you did the right thing. My dd has ASD (now almost 18), she was always encouraged to join in but there were times when it wasn’t in her best interests to take part. The last couple weeks of school before Christmas are meant to be fun but for out kids it’s just stress, lack of routine, being made to sing, dress up and preform? Of course it’s fine to opt out if it’s going to cause more stress. My daughter joined in as she got older and as the school started adapting things for her so she could comfortably take part.

I have a teenage ASD child and it took me a long time to realise that they can't just do what other children do, despite what relatives/teachers/health professionals/society says.

An adult I know with ASD said the thing that helped him the most was knowing his parents supported him and advocated for him growing up.

Well done for doing this for your son. I only wish I'd done it sooner.